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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127782 - 11/12/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
They pay better if you're still in college?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Gotcha. Are you sure that is how you want the world run?
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19127791 - 11/12/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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sorry to complain so much in my posts guys, i'm just in a shitter of a spot right now in my life economically and obviously venting.....it's easier to blame capitalism than it is to change my work-situation, that's all.
i just don't know what to do i guess...feel lost at fucking sea sometimes. i need a new career path or something to give me some goddamn hope
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
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Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Magicman69]
#19127796 - 11/12/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: People hate capitalism because of something called social capital. Basically what it means is that everyone is not equal, no matter what the constitution says. People who are born into privledge have a huge advantage due to social capital.
This. Money and power begets more money and power. It is possible to improve your circumstance through hard work in this country, but if you start poor, it doesn't matter how much money you make, you will never be with the 'in' crowd in your lifetime. You could be a self-made billionaire. Doesn't matter, the old money will look down on you and keep you in your place.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/12/13 05:59 PM)
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Darwin23
INFJ



Registered: 10/08/10
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Loc: United States
Last seen: 23 days, 8 hours
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127812 - 11/12/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wouldn't say that I hate capitalism but I would say it's less than ideal for many reasons. To start, it favors those with capital. People are born with much more capital than others. Here's a scenario:
Boone is born in a home where his parents are rich. Boone is a slacker and doesn't really work much. He smokes weed which he buys from Prolan. Prolan was raised in a violent, hopeless home without any capital. Prolan is hard-working and does fairly well considering his circumstances (still did worse than Boone who was put in SAT prep and pampered with tutors etc.). Prolan has an amazing idea that many people could use and would make lots of money. One day Boone and Prolan are smoking. Prolan brings the idea up to Boone. Boone likes the idea and because he has the capital (passed down through his parents) decides to invest in Prolan's idea. The idea is a big hit and they both get a bunch of money.
Here's the problem. Prolan did the work. Prolan wouldn't have gotten rich if he didn't have access to Boone's capital. Boone made money simply because he had money to begin with. He didn't do shit. Now, that's the best case scenario. Worse would be that Boone takes advantage of Prolan. Prolan doesn't have much of an option. Boone is totally in control of the situation because he has the capital. If he doesn't contribute, Prolan is fucked. Boone can behave like a tyrant and Prolan has little choice but to comply.
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Take a look at my journal
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127813 - 11/12/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
psi said:
I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.
remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.
yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.
and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.
i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...
show some initiative. put your boss to a decision. estimate how much value you add to the company and what you're being paid (comprehensively), and ask for a raise if you feel confident you have earned it. I'd be seeking work and have leads before you do this or jump ship. In order for others to value you, you must value yourself first. Valuing yourself won't happen by complaining on a message board though it may help you realize that could be a source of your problems. It will however happen by putting in the groundwork and by sheer determination making that your number one priority.
And your first job out of college is CRITICAL. It will essentially brand you/peg you and try to confine you to a certain income and job type for life.
What did you major in? Do you have loans?
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
Edited by JesusIsLord (11/12/13 06:03 PM)
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:
zZZz said: exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.
What can I say, I like pie more than most people do, so much so that it's even in my signature! The difference is that I make pies, and therefore have more pie than others. You don't deserve my pie, you didn't make it or even pick the ingredients. If you clean the kitchen for me, I might give you a piece, but definitely not a whole one.
you like more pies than most people and there's nothing wrong with that. it's when you lie and steal the pies of others who worked hard for their pies is when the line is crossed. the greedy capitalists have more than enough pie to eat, but then they want everyone to make their pies, they want to spread their pies all over the world, they want to crush small businesses who are only trying to make a living and not trying to be filthy rich. these fuckers don't need that much pie, they just want it all because they are like leeches who don't know when enough is enough.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19127817 - 11/12/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Capitalism doesn't care about old money/new money. That's a cultural/social issue.
If you are trying to earn money to fit in with old money, you're in for disappointment.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127840 - 11/12/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said: sorry to complain so much in my posts guys, i'm just in a shitter of a spot right now in my life economically and obviously venting.....it's easier to blame capitalism than it is to change my work-situation, that's all.
i just don't know what to do i guess...feel lost at fucking sea sometimes. i need a new career path or something to give me some goddamn hope
Military, oil fields, drift on the wind soul searching, cure cancer, invent something, help someone, job hunt, acquire new skills, learn a language, travel somewhere completely alien. keep pushing on
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Krackatus]
#19127886 - 11/12/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Krackatus said: It's a flawed system like any other. The biggest problem I see with it is that we sacrifice every aspect society, ourselves and our relationship with the earth, in the pursuit of profit. Manufactoring and producing so much useless crap. Transporting it around the world. So much waste.
Everythings made for profit, ie. to appeal to the mass market (morons?). The only reason we have celebrities, pop culture and all that other shit is because of capitalism. The reason why MTV turned to shit? Capitalism. Justin Beiber and other talentless little fucktards like him? Capitalism. I don't need to go on.
It's a system that rewards ruthlessness and selfishness, instead of compassion and courage. It spawns object fetishism and vain pursuits of material wealth. Anyone who thinks it's great is misguided or is benefitting tremendously from it. It's completley unsustainable and it's destroying our planet. But apparently its the best system we've come up with so guess we're stuck with it for the time being eh?
Jacque Fresco and Terence Mckenna have the wisest words to say on the subject imo.
EDIT- Two great posts above me! ^
Holy shit man I was just about to post about the Venus Project. I truly believe we could live in a much more just society. But perhaps humans are too stupid to realize we could live in peace and wisdom.
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127897 - 11/12/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
show some initiative. put your boss to a decision. estimate how much value you add to the company and what you're being paid (comprehensively), and ask for a raise if you feel confident you have earned it. I'd be seeking work and have leads before you do this or jump ship. In order for others to value you, you must value yourself first. Valuing yourself won't happen by complaining on a message board though it may help you realize that could be a source of your problems. It will however happen by putting in the groundwork and by sheer determination making that your number one priority.
And your first job out of college is CRITICAL. It will essentially brand you/peg you and try to confine you to a certain income and job type for life.
What did you major in? Do you have loans?
the biggest problem with my job is the hours. i do TONS of work but i'm able to get most of it done on a 25-30 hour workweek at $11.50 an hour. the boss knows this and basically makes me go home once everything is done....so i never get 40 hours a week, ever.
i just realized that if i worked true 40 hour weeks, 12 months out of the year i'd make $22,020 a year before taxes...not bank, but certainly alot better than what i make now.
as for my college loans...luckily i only owe $10k cuz i had a pretty fat scholarship. unfortunately my college degree is pointless unless i pursue more schooling...i have an english degree (yuck)...initially i was going to become a teacher or professor and actually decided in my 2nd year that teaching was definitely *not* for me. i could NOT drop out however because my school would have taken my scholarship away and i would have owed even MORE for those two years than if i just finished the four and got the degree.
long story but yea...college was kind of a waste of time for me. and now i'm in this place where i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here lol.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127906 - 11/12/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said: yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.
and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.
i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...
If you're so valuable you should have no problem getting a raise if you ask for it.
I walked out of university right into a high-paying job. Do you have a liberal arts degree by any chance?
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127911 - 11/12/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here
To the bar. Time to drink.
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127936 - 11/12/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
show some initiative. put your boss to a decision. estimate how much value you add to the company and what you're being paid (comprehensively), and ask for a raise if you feel confident you have earned it. I'd be seeking work and have leads before you do this or jump ship. In order for others to value you, you must value yourself first. Valuing yourself won't happen by complaining on a message board though it may help you realize that could be a source of your problems. It will however happen by putting in the groundwork and by sheer determination making that your number one priority.
And your first job out of college is CRITICAL. It will essentially brand you/peg you and try to confine you to a certain income and job type for life.
What did you major in? Do you have loans?
the biggest problem with my job is the hours. i do TONS of work but i'm able to get most of it done on a 25-30 hour workweek at $11.50 an hour. the boss knows this and basically makes me go home once everything is done....so i never get 40 hours a week, ever.
i just realized that if i worked true 40 hour weeks, 12 months out of the year i'd make $22,020 a year before taxes...not bank, but certainly alot better than what i make now.
as for my college loans...luckily i only owe $10k cuz i had a pretty fat scholarship. unfortunately my college degree is pointless unless i pursue more schooling...i have an english degree (yuck)...initially i was going to become a teacher or professor and actually decided in my 2nd year that teaching was definitely *not* for me. i could NOT drop out however because my school would have taken my scholarship away and i would have owed even MORE for those two years than if i just finished the four and got the degree.
long story but yea...college was kind of a waste of time for me. and now i'm in this place where i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here lol.
glass is half full - better than being homeless. you sound like you've got a brain in your head though so my advice, do something practical. I know a lot of guys making 60-90k a year doing trades. I make 90k a year plus benefits in my trade and I'm 25, granted I worked 65+ hours a week. But I make good coin.
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19127942 - 11/12/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here
To the bar. Time to drink.
lol, the fact that i'm not an alcoholic yet is beyond me...so young...so many worries...always sober.
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127962 - 11/12/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusIsLord said: glass is half full - better than being homeless. you sound like you've got a brain in your head though so my advice, do something practical. I know a lot of guys making 60-90k a year doing trades. I make 90k a year plus benefits in my trade and I'm 25, granted I worked 65+ hours a week. But I make good coin.
trades, as in like carpentry or electrician? i've actually considered this type of work because i actually prefer working with my hands over sitting on my ass all day anyway.
not to mention my dad almost six figures a year doing that type of stuff...sometimes i think my parents sent me down the wrong path with the whole college thing. both sides of my family are like, old-school trade-work type people and alot of them make serious bank too.
only problem is...i dont' have any experience doing ANY of that stuff. my dad is like a master of fixing shit and always wanted me to go down the white-collar path instead. so i never really got a chance to learn his craft...which i truly do admire. it's amazing the stuff he can do.
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Edited by resonant111 (11/12/13 06:29 PM)
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127981 - 11/12/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
JesusIsLord said: glass is half full - better than being homeless. you sound like you've got a brain in your head though so my advice, do something practical. I know a lot of guys making 60-90k a year doing trades. I make 90k a year plus benefits in my trade and I'm 25, granted I worked 65+ hours a week. But I make good coin.
trades, as in like carpentry or electrician? i've actually considered this type of work because i actually prefer working with my hands over sitting on my ass all day anyway.
not to mention my dad almost six figures a year doing that type of stuff...sometimes i think my parents sent me down the wrong path with the whole college thing. both sides of my family are like, old-school trade-work type people and alot of them make serious bank too.
only problem is...i dont' have any experience doing ANY of that stuff. my dad is like a master of fixing shit and always wanted me to go down the white-collar path instead. so i never really got a chance to learn his craft...which i truly do admire. it's amazing the stuff he can do.
yes. I am a weldor/fabricator myself, but there are all kinds of trades. I know LOTS of CDL drivers here in the oilfields that rake in 90-110k a year for what is essentially a simple, but important job that just requires your complete attention, care, and focus.
Working with your hands is very satisfying work IMHO.
Oh, and not to be a dick - but accept responsibility for your decisions. Your parents didn't make you go to college or anything, they were just trying to help you find your way, not force you. Your life is yours to do with what you will
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
Edited by JesusIsLord (11/12/13 06:42 PM)
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127985 - 11/12/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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hell I know a few geologists that make 120k a year. And everyone made fun of that major in college IME
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 1,855
Loc: Hug a hippie today
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127995 - 11/12/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Gotcha. Are you sure that is how you want the world run?
That is how it's run, and I don't expect it to change anytime soon. Do you think it was unfair for JD Rockefeller to make his fortune atop the bodies of immigrant workers? I don't, I don't think it's morally just or right either, but I don't think it's unfair in the game of capitalism. Dog eat dog. If you put in the work to learn to hustle people I think you deserve the rewards. You also deserve what's hopefully coming to you, but you did earn the booty imo.
Stealing is another matter.
Quote:
zZZz said: you like more pies than most people and there's nothing wrong with that. it's when you lie and steal the pies of others who worked hard for their pies is when the line is crossed. the greedy capitalists have more than enough pie to eat, but then they want everyone to make their pies, they want to spread their pies all over the world, they want to crush small businesses who are only trying to make a living and not trying to be filthy rich. these fuckers don't need that much pie, they just want it all because they are like leeches who don't know when enough is enough.
How do you know how much pie a person needs? If everyone wants to make one guys pies, then more power to him for persuading them to do so, they all have the option of quitting and making pies for themselves but they don't because he apparently keeps them full enough.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Fuck pie... except Huckleberry.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/12/13 06:37 PM)
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