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OfflineJesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111] * 2
    #19127571 - 11/12/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

resonant111 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich

Rich people fucking love capitalism



Not just the rich.  Consumers love it and anybody with anything to contribute loves it.  Losers hate it.




There are a large number of people who contribute to capitalistic society day in and day out, yet get *very little* in return for their efforts.

Anyone who works 40 hours plus a week deserves a living wage, especially if they are single and have not burdened society by having children they can't afford to raise. If that *one* requirement was fulfilled, i would have no beef with capitalism, whatsoever.



No one deserves anything. Period.

Think about how entitled what you just said is.


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Registered: 11/26/12
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
    #19127572 - 11/12/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..




What is not fair about that? Those things take skill and work to do too, and are more than the average person is willing to do to get their pie.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
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Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19127584 - 11/12/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

when you lie and say you need more pie, but in truth only need one pie, you take from others their piece of the pie. thus they go hungry on account of ur  greed.


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
    #19127608 - 11/12/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
when you lie and say you need more pie, but in truth only need one pie, you take from others their piece of the pie. thus they go hungry on account of ur  greed.




To the victor go the spoils. If you are dumb enough to give your pie to a conman you deserved to lose it.


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OfflineKrackatus


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1,013
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127621 - 11/12/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich

Rich people fucking love capitalism



Not just the rich.  Consumers love it and anybody with anything to contribute loves it.  Losers hate it.




Jesus christ youre havin a laugh. It's astounding how much ignorance you managed to cram into a single line. Anybody with anything to contribute loves it? Jesus man you are fucking lost. Like most people.


Edited by Krackatus (11/12/13 05:33 PM)


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
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Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19127656 - 11/12/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19127673 - 11/12/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
There is no fixed amount of wealth Bill Gates did not steal his 60 billion dollars he created value in a company which before did not exist.




No, but there is a fixed amount of land, something that everyone needs access to in order to survive. When a small number of parties amass enough wealth to control the vast bulk of the available land, they basically call all the shots at that point because they monopolize both employment and access to the necessities of life. Anyone born not owning land can basically either work for them for a shit deal (perpetual debt) or die. When property rights are absolute and perpetual this is what things tend towards. Once you have an aristocratic class controlling all the land, the only way out really is violent revolution.

That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
    #19127681 - 11/12/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.



what about thinking someone "deserves" my money because I just make too much of it compared to them (i.e., socialism/communism) isn't greedy, lazy, and selfish?

in capitalism, people GIVE money to selfish people, voluntarily.
in socialism, selfish people TAKE money from other people, involuntarily.


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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Offlinespixce
Up, Up & Away
Male


Registered: 06/29/13
Posts: 4,451
Loc: AZ Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex]
    #19127691 - 11/12/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't hate it, it is kinda unfair but nothing else will work with human beings


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Registered: 11/26/12
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
    #19127699 - 11/12/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.




What can I say, I like pie more than most people do, so much so that it's even in my signature! The difference is that I make pies, and therefore have more pie than others. You don't deserve my pie, you didn't make it or even pick the ingredients. If you clean the kitchen for me, I might give you a piece, but definitely not a whole one.


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Offlineresonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: psi]
    #19127701 - 11/12/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:

That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.




I agree with this entirely. I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"

HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).

and that's the flaw with the system...if you make the compromise to trade that labor and time, you better be getting your reward for it...end of story.


--------------------


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OfflineJesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
    #19127713 - 11/12/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

resonant111 said:
Quote:

psi said:

That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.




I agree with this entirely. I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"

HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).

and that's the flaw with the system...if you make the compromise to trade that labor and time, you better be getting your reward for it...end of story.



obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.

remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19127726 - 11/12/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JesusIsLord said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.



what about thinking someone "deserves" my money because I just make too much of it compared to them (i.e., socialism/communism) isn't greedy, lazy, and selfish?

in capitalism, people GIVE money to selfish people, voluntarily.
in socialism, selfish people TAKE money from other people, involuntarily.





im not saying it is a necessarily a bad thing, but that it is a breeding ground for greed. if you make your money the honest way well you deserve it, it's yours, but when you lie and crush those also wanting an equal opportunity is where the line is crossed.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
    #19127737 - 11/12/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..



That has nothing to do with capitalism and is an inevitable characteristic of socialism.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19127748 - 11/12/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..




What is not fair about that? Those things take skill and work to do too, and are more than the average person is willing to do to get their pie.



So if I catch them I can take a baseball bat to their kneecaps?  Just let me know if that's OK with you because I have no problem with that.


--------------------


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Offlineresonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19127751 - 11/12/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

resonant111 said:
Quote:

psi said:

I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"

HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).





obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.

remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.




yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.

i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.

and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.

i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19127759 - 11/12/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JesusIsLord said:
Quote:

resonant111 said:
Quote:

psi said:

That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.




I agree with this entirely. I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"

HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).

and that's the flaw with the system...if you make the compromise to trade that labor and time, you better be getting your reward for it...end of story.



obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.

remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.



He could probably make 15 or so an hour in any construction job around here as long as he is reasonably fit and not a fucking retard freakshow.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
    #19127768 - 11/12/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

resonant111 said:
Quote:

resonant111 said:
Quote:

psi said:

I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"

HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).





obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.

remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.




yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.

i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.

and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.

i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...




Ask for a raise


--------------------


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InvisibleMagicman69
All About the Benjamins
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Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 6,876
Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111] * 3
    #19127769 - 11/12/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

People hate capitalism because of something called social capital. Basically what it means is that everyone is not equal, no matter what the constitution says. People who are born into privledge have a huge advantage due to social capital.


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Registered: 11/26/12
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127774 - 11/12/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..




What is not fair about that? Those things take skill and work to do too, and are more than the average person is willing to do to get their pie.



So if I catch them I can take a baseball bat to their kneecaps?  Just let me know if that's OK with you because I have no problem with that.



That is perfectly congruent with my worldview, yes.


--------------------


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