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Offlineiamhydrogen
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Registered: 11/12/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Fruiting non-starter
    #19127672 - 11/12/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hello.  I bought a pre-made brf bag and injected it with a Puerto Rican strain.  It seems to have colonized okay (see picture below) but I've been trying to fruit in the bag for the past two weeks and nothing doing.  I've got a light set to go off on a 8 hour cycle each day and the ambient temp is about 67 degrees.  Any advice would be appreciated.     



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Offlineurthtown
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: iamhydrogen]
    #19127738 - 11/12/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Everyone is going to tell you the Fresh Air Exchange (FAE) is the number one pinning trigger and your bag has too little... then they'll tell you to build a ShotGun Fruiting Chamber like the one in RR's videos.

EDIT: That second pic is too blurry for me to tell but it looks like you may not be at 100% colonization yet, meaning it shouldn't be fruited anyway. The uncolonized substrate would be susceptible to contams.


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Edited by urthtown (11/12/13 05:51 PM)


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OfflineDarph_Bobo
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: iamhydrogen]
    #19127832 - 11/12/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

FAE is the number one pinning trigger and your bag has too little. You should build a SGFC like the one in RR's videos.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: Darph_Bobo]
    #19127857 - 11/12/13 06:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

FAE is the number one pinning trigger and your bag has too little... Build a ShotGun Fruiting Chamber like the one in RR's videos.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: Psilicon]
    #19127882 - 11/12/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
FAE is the number one pinning trigger and your bag has too little... Build a ShotGun Fruiting Chamber like the one in RR's videos.



wrong,it's full colonization but close enough :wink:


The major pinning triggers are in order of importance, full colonization, a decrease in CO2 levels due to increased air exchange(not gas exchange which is minimal), a steady rate of evaporation from the substrate or casing layer, and lastly, light.

Hyphal knots form best in 100% humidity, but I didn't list that because it's not a pinning trigger, but rather an environmental condition that is necessary. That's why we use casing layers. The casing helps to provide the 100% humidity right at the surface of the substrate where the hyphal knots form.

I have seen no correlation with temperature drop whatsoever. In the summer, my growing chambers are 10 or more degrees warmer than the open shelves I incubate on due to the heating effects of the lights. Even with a temperature increase, I still get wall to wall pinsets, so I don't consider temp drop relevant at all to tropical species. Other growers disagree of course, but that's just my observation after many years.

Full colonization of the substrate is the number 1 pinning trigger. Full colonization can be when the mycelium reaches the physical border of the container they are in, or when they run up against a biological border, such as a contaminant species. Either way, they see they have colonized all of what is available to them, so they then enter the next phase, which is reproduction.

There must be evaporation of moisture from the substrate for pins to form. A waterlogged substrate will just sit there forever without pinning. Even in 99% humidity, as long as you provide fresh air, moisture will be evaporating away from the substrate, and this is necessary for pinning. We mist to replenish the lost moisture, then allow it to dry slightly before misting again. This keeps the moisture content high, and keeps the humidity at the casing surface near 100%, but at the same time provides the evaporation of moisture that is a very important pinning trigger.

During colonization, we provide very small holes in the jars or tubs for gas exchange. We want a high CO2 environment during colonization, because this prevents the mycelium from consuming all of the substrate. The mycelium colonizes the substrate, but doesn't 'eat it all up' due to the high CO2 levels. During fruiting, we remove the covers to provide air exchange, which is at a much higher level then the minimal gas exchange provided during colonization. This increase in air exchange lowers the CO2 levels, and is a major pinning trigger. At this time, the mycelium begins to consume the substrate it has previously colonized, and we notice during fruiting that our substrates pull away from the sides of the container. This is not due to moisture loss, but rather due to the mycelium 'eating' the substrate and turning it into CO2, a waste product. It is easily proved that this shrinking isn't related to moisture loss, because even when we dunk a bulk substrate, it doesn't return to its pre-flush size.

Last, but not by any means least is exposure to light. Light does much more than just tell the mushrooms which way to grow. There are mechanisms in the light that stimulate the formation of hyphal knots as well, and light at the higher end of the spectrum(blue) definitely, absolutely stimulate more hyphal knots(which grow into primordia, which then morph into pins) than light at the lower end of the spectrum(red) This does not mean to get a 'mood light' with a blue lens, but rather to select lights such as metal halide, or much more economical is 'natural daylight' fluorescent that emit light at around 6,000 kelvin to 7,500 kelvin depending on the brand. Cool white fluorescent emit light at around 5,000 kelvin and the 'red' incandescents emit light at around 3,000 kelvin. The higher the light temperature in kelvin, the more stimulatory it is to hyphal knot formation. I hope this helps.
RR


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: cronicr]
    #19127926 - 11/12/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure I agree.  I've seen more pinning without full colonization than I have without FAE, but maybe that's just me.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: Psilicon]
    #19127931 - 11/12/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it's just you...


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I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlineiamhydrogen
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: cronicr]
    #19128054 - 11/12/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Very interesting info.  I'm trying to avoid building any sort of apparatus to fruit it in because I'm trying to keep it rather low-pro.

I had the bag sealed on top, though it does have the meshy breathable fabric I guess maybe that's not enough and I certainly haven't been good about opening it up every day by any means.  Also, the BRF brick is fairly dried out.  How moist should I keep it?


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Fruiting non-starter [Re: cronicr]
    #19129589 - 11/13/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
it's just you...




Yeah?  You have a lot of your grain jars start pinning before you open them up?


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