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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
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Turkey tail extract question
#19127580 - 11/12/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I remember reading and the videos on turkey tails for cancer immune booster, Ive realized turkey tails grow all around here normally...
Is there a easy way to extract them down to capsule form, as stamets used in the videos. thanks
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: bakenast]
#19127894 - 11/12/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Grinding into a powder and eating is the best way to use. Heating is not necessary if you powder it. You are guaranteed to get everything that's there that way. Otherwise do a double extraction alcohol then boiling water decoction.
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Mushmitch
fungi


Registered: 01/26/13
Posts: 167
Loc: islands
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what about bho extract on medicinals or co2 extraction?
-------------------- All the kids will eat it up if its Packaged properly.
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Mushmitch]
#19154547 - 11/18/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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well i realize all our turkey tail logs the mushrooms are past due, do you know anywhere that sells dried turkey tails? so i could just ground my own and put in caps
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skullphuxxx
free food finder



Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 341
Loc: Smurfs village
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: bakenast]
#19154805 - 11/18/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakenast said: do you know anywhere that sells dried turkey tails? so i could just ground my own and put in caps
marketplace/trade
-------------------- a stranger is a friend i haven't met yet.
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TheBoomking
I really am Bret McKenzie



Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 836
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: skullphuxxx]
#19170018 - 11/21/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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mushmitch really?
bakenast I order my supplements and extracts from fungi perfecti. they are expensive but I'm more confident about their potency and legitimacy than other medicinal mushroom providers. I'm not sure about aloha medicnals and if they have turkey tail for sale but they are highly recommended for their cordyceps.
And if you really want a cheap quality product make some sawdust blocks.
Edited by TheBoomking (11/21/13 01:04 PM)
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Quote:
Amanita virosa said: Grinding into a powder and eating is the best way to use. Heating is not necessary if you powder it. You are guaranteed to get everything that's there that way. Otherwise do a double extraction alcohol then boiling water decoction.
There seems to be some disagreement on this. Here's a link to a thread I made a little while back, and was recently resurrected.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17474567
At this point, Im not sure what to think.
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
Quote:
Amanita virosa said: Grinding into a powder and eating is the best way to use. Heating is not necessary if you powder it. You are guaranteed to get everything that's there that way. Otherwise do a double extraction alcohol then boiling water decoction.
There seems to be some disagreement on this. Here's a link to a thread I made a little while back, and was recently resurrected.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17474567
At this point, Im not sure what to think.
If you powder the fruit bodies then you are mechanically breaking down the chitin cell walls and effectively releasing everything inside the cells. At that point you can consume them however you want. The reason that aloha heat treats their Myc is due to FDA health regs. I have never seen any literature regarding heat "activating" any chemical constituents. Eating powdered fruit bodies ensures you are getting all soluble and insoluble compounds.
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Mushmitch
fungi


Registered: 01/26/13
Posts: 167
Loc: islands
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: TheBoomking]
#19172542 - 11/21/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Boomking really are you suggesting eating sawdust?..
whats wrong with the idea of bho or some other cold extraction method...?
-------------------- All the kids will eat it up if its Packaged properly.
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Mushmitch]
#19172716 - 11/21/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushmitch said: Boomking really are you suggesting eating sawdust?..
whats wrong with the idea of bho or some other cold extraction method...?
Some 1,3 beta glucans are insoluble in water and alcohol so you could never get them by extraction
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TheBoomking
I really am Bret McKenzie



Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 836
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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because its used primarily to bind with thc and make hash oil - and as far as I'm concerned has no use for extracting the "medicinal" compounds out of fungi - like such as our above friend stated. I could be wrong I'm no expert...
and no Im recommending making T. versicolor sawdust blocks so the op could have access to fresh turkey tail year round
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
Amanita virosa said:
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
Quote:
Amanita virosa said: Grinding into a powder and eating is the best way to use. Heating is not necessary if you powder it. You are guaranteed to get everything that's there that way. Otherwise do a double extraction alcohol then boiling water decoction.
There seems to be some disagreement on this. Here's a link to a thread I made a little while back, and was recently resurrected.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17474567
At this point, Im not sure what to think.
If you powder the fruit bodies then you are mechanically breaking down the chitin cell walls and effectively releasing everything inside the cells. At that point you can consume them however you want. The reason that aloha heat treats their Myc is due to FDA health regs. I have never seen any literature regarding heat "activating" any chemical constituents. Eating powdered fruit bodies ensures you are getting all soluble and insoluble compounds.
I'm confused on this one too... what you're saying makes sense AV, but I have read literature on heat being necessary. There was a study with chaga where it was found ineffective when only steeped in warm water not boiled, in Christopher Hobbs Medicinal Mushrooms. I'm fairly certain I can find references in other books I have where they say heat is necessary as well... although I could be mistaken/confused (as could the authors).
I don't know, I'm half way to agreeing with you, but I'm not convinced just yet. I mean, can you be sure that powdering the fruit body is breaking down the mushroom on a cellular level?
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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leschampignons
Biochemistry + Mycology


Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 1,583
Loc: NY/NJ/ME
Last seen: 3 days, 21 hours
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Forrester]
#19174536 - 11/22/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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even if it is breaking it down on the cellular level and your body has access to the compounds perhaps heat causes chemical transformation of some of the compounds involved? in other words heat might be neccessary for more than just breaking up the chitinous walls. Just speculation here though
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Forrester]
#19174637 - 11/22/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
Amanita virosa said:
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
Quote:
Amanita virosa said: Grinding into a powder and eating is the best way to use. Heating is not necessary if you powder it. You are guaranteed to get everything that's there that way. Otherwise do a double extraction alcohol then boiling water decoction.
There seems to be some disagreement on this. Here's a link to a thread I made a little while back, and was recently resurrected.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17474567
At this point, Im not sure what to think.
If you powder the fruit bodies then you are mechanically breaking down the chitin cell walls and effectively releasing everything inside the cells. At that point you can consume them however you want. The reason that aloha heat treats their Myc is due to FDA health regs. I have never seen any literature regarding heat "activating" any chemical constituents. Eating powdered fruit bodies ensures you are getting all soluble and insoluble compounds.
I'm confused on this one too... what you're saying makes sense AV, but I have read literature on heat being necessary. There was a study with chaga where it was found ineffective when only steeped in warm water not boiled, in Christopher Hobbs Medicinal Mushrooms. I'm fairly certain I can find references in other books I have where they say heat is necessary as well... although I could be mistaken/confused (as could the authors).
I don't know, I'm half way to agreeing with you, but I'm not convinced just yet. I mean, can you be sure that powdering the fruit body is breaking down the mushroom on a cellular level?
I suppose it depends on how finely you grind them up. When I say powder, I mean the consistancy of flour. I run them thru a hammer mill designed to make flour out of grain. i would imagine that the finer you grind them the more likely you are to completely tear the walls. Keep in mind that fungal cells are quite large. Maybe it would make sense to agree that the BEST thing you could do would be to powder them, boil them in water, and then drink them down.
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Quote:
Amanita virosa said:
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
Quote:
Amanita virosa said: Grinding into a powder and eating is the best way to use. Heating is not necessary if you powder it. You are guaranteed to get everything that's there that way. Otherwise do a double extraction alcohol then boiling water decoction.
There seems to be some disagreement on this. Here's a link to a thread I made a little while back, and was recently resurrected.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17474567
At this point, Im not sure what to think.
If you powder the fruit bodies then you are mechanically breaking down the chitin cell walls and effectively releasing everything inside the cells. At that point you can consume them however you want. The reason that aloha heat treats their Myc is due to FDA health regs. I have never seen any literature regarding heat "activating" any chemical constituents. Eating powdered fruit bodies ensures you are getting all soluble and insoluble compounds.
just seen this grinding them into powder without having to heat or freeze dry sure will make it easier and cheaper...
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
Amanita virosa said: I suppose it depends on how finely you grind them up. When I say powder, I mean the consistancy of flour. I run them thru a hammer mill designed to make flour out of grain. i would imagine that the finer you grind them the more likely you are to completely tear the walls. Keep in mind that fungal cells are quite large. Maybe it would make sense to agree that the BEST thing you could do would be to powder them, boil them in water, and then drink them down. 
Yeah I'll definitely agree on that. All I have is a coffee grinder, so stuff like chaga gets to a real fine powder but other stuff it's just real small pieces, definitely not flour like! Then there's turkey tails, which pretty much turn to cotton.
So for a mycelium extraction, assuming you get it fairly well powdered would you think the heat of the food dehydrator would be enough to make it fairly digestable? (That and the fact that it's mycelium, not a tough fruit body)
Also, just out of curiosity how much did a mill like that run you? That would be awesome for mushrooms AND to be able to actually make flour out of grain...
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
leschampignons said: even if it is breaking it down on the cellular level and your body has access to the compounds perhaps heat causes chemical transformation of some of the compounds involved? in other words heat might be neccessary for more than just breaking up the chitinous walls. Just speculation here though
It could, for sure. With medicinal mushrooms we're dealing with a large number of compounds which all could have different properties. The chaga study I mentioned didn't give a lot of information as to how well they ground it, or anything else. So I'm not sure if it was a "heat effecting some compound" issue, or a "we threw giant chaga chunks in cold water and it didn't work" issue. I mean who knows
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Forrester]
#19179018 - 11/23/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
Amanita virosa said: I suppose it depends on how finely you grind them up. When I say powder, I mean the consistancy of flour. I run them thru a hammer mill designed to make flour out of grain. i would imagine that the finer you grind them the more likely you are to completely tear the walls. Keep in mind that fungal cells are quite large. Maybe it would make sense to agree that the BEST thing you could do would be to powder them, boil them in water, and then drink them down. 
Yeah I'll definitely agree on that. All I have is a coffee grinder, so stuff like chaga gets to a real fine powder but other stuff it's just real small pieces, definitely not flour like! Then there's turkey tails, which pretty much turn to cotton.
So for a mycelium extraction, assuming you get it fairly well powdered would you think the heat of the food dehydrator would be enough to make it fairly digestable? (That and the fact that it's mycelium, not a tough fruit body)
Also, just out of curiosity how much did a mill like that run you? That would be awesome for mushrooms AND to be able to actually make flour out of grain...
I have a nice hand crank hammer mill that was my grandfathers. I have know idea what they cost. Small electric ones are prolly a couple hundred dollars.
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 920
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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so running through a coffee grinder isint good enough?
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 9 hours
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: bakenast]
#19180017 - 11/23/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakenast said: so running through a coffee grinder isint good enough?
For turkey tails? Eh, it's debatable as you've probably noticed 
When I run them through my coffee grinder I'm still left with a lot of chunks and a ton of fuzzy/cotton-like matter. Maybe the cell walls are broken down at that point, maybe not. I'm sure you'll get something out of them but will you get the most you could if you used alcohol/heat? Probably not.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Forrester]
#19187343 - 11/25/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My dried turkey tails end up so damn spongy that my grain mill just jams up on them. I say screw it and boil the bastards because it's way easier than cranking my mill and having to go through and clean off the plates and grind more, etc.
What I've been doing is putting the reishi, turkey tails and artist conk I find cut in small pieces and toss it in a gallon jar of everclear. I haven't drank the blackish liquid yet, but I do take the pieces out and boil them into tea, which I do drink, especially if I have a cold or feel one coming on. Works great for that!
Wish I could do a beer extraction because I hate everclear.
--------------------
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: liamtheloser]
#19188056 - 11/25/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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can dried turkey tails be grinded in a coffee grinder? ive never had any before or are they too hard?
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: bakenast]
#19188292 - 11/25/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I put mine in a blender. What comes out is not a foster though. More like a thick fluff. Think a denser thicker cattail fuzz.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 9 hours
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Re: Turkey tail extract question [Re: Forrester]
#19189257 - 11/25/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bakenast said: can dried turkey tails be grinded in a coffee grinder? ive never had any before or are they too hard?
Quote:
Forrester said: When I run them through my coffee grinder I'm still left with a lot of chunks and a ton of fuzzy/cotton-like matter. Maybe the cell walls are broken down at that point, maybe not. I'm sure you'll get something out of them but will you get the most you could if you used alcohol/heat? Probably not.
Yes a coffee grinder works quite well enough, if you're going to use alcohol and/or heat after that. I use one for all the mushrooms I extract, a cheap-o walmart one too, it was like $10.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Quote:
wildernessjunkie said: I put mine in a blender. What comes out is not a foster though. More like a thick fluff. Think a denser thicker cattail fuzz.
yea it is some strange textured shit huh. it is the only one that the hammer mill doesnt like. it gets caught up.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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I just read that quote by me. Theres a typo. I meant powder, not foster.
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