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Invisible1stimer
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Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim
    #1912747 - 09/13/03 03:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: 1stimer]
    #1912851 - 09/13/03 03:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Wolfowitz even shits lies.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: Xlea321]
    #1913935 - 09/13/03 10:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Foreign fighters coming into the country, are a distablilizing force no matter who they are affilated with. Be it Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, or if they are independents. There goals are the same. Kill Americans, and prevent the Iraqis from establishing a democracy. We did capture 80 of them last week in northern Iraq.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1913938 - 09/13/03 10:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think America really wants true democracy in the country, considering the large Shiite population. Democracy in that region will lead to theocracy.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: silversoul7]
    #1913976 - 09/13/03 11:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if that is really true. I saw an interview with this pundit the other day that was talking about how a lot of the Shiite don't want that. The leader that was killed in the mosque did not want that, and his brother is on the governing council. This guy also said that a lot of Iraqis are intermarried between the different sects in the country. We will have to wait and see of course. I think that the claims that democracy will never work there are unfounded and have been claimed in other places before, and were bullshit then as well. The Shiite are about 60% in the country. I think that to assume that all of them are going to vote for some fundamentalist government is a large assumption. I believe most Iraqis are like most Americans. They are fairly moderate. I also think they know what that kind of government leads to. It leads to opression and dictatorship. Saddam was not a big time religious guy, but he was a Sunni, and he favored the Sunnis while torturing the Shiites. Hopefully both sides will be able to work togeter with the Kurds to form a good government that will allow religious freedom for all.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1913984 - 09/13/03 11:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

^^^That post reeks of idealism.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: silversoul7]
    #1913994 - 09/13/03 11:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Your post reeked of pesimism. Whatever. I was pointing out some facts that I figured you would refuse to even acknowledge. What part of it 'reeks of idealism'?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1914004 - 09/13/03 11:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Your post reeked of pesimism. Whatever. I was pointing out some facts that I figured you would refuse to even acknowledge. What part of it 'reeks of idealism'?



The part where you assume that because the Shiites have been oppressed that they will be understanding towards other religions. History has shown time and again that this is not the case. Remember the pilgrims that came over to the US from England to escape religious oppression? You think they were tolerant towards other religions? Or how about the Israelis and Palestinians? They seem to be getting the whole "forgive and forget" thing quite well, right?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914019 - 09/13/03 11:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

So you are confident that NONE of the Shiite want a non-religious government? I never said they would forgive and forget anything. Their majority is not that large, and I think it is safe to assume that not all of them are going to vote for someone that is going to tell them how to live their lives every day. Your position is one of supreme pessimism. You automatically assume the worst will happen in the country.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1914027 - 09/13/03 11:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I never said NONE of them want a non-religious government, but I'd say a majority probably don't. Look at the region and tell me how many non-religious governments you'll find. I bet it won't be many. Also, I'm not assuming the worst will happen in the country. I was just pointing out why democracy in the region might be a bad idea.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914034 - 09/13/03 11:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well, a majority of the Shiite does not represent the majority of Iraqis necessarily. Saying that democracy is not a good idea anywhere is lunacy to me. That is where we differ I guess. You have no problem with a oppresive commie regime, while I do.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1914047 - 09/13/03 11:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Who said I have no problem with Saddam's regime? Stop putting words in my mouth.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914088 - 09/13/03 11:50 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I never said anything about Saddam. What would be your alternative to Saddam? Some socialist regime?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1914103 - 09/13/03 11:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

No. It would be a Republic with checks and balances to create a separation of church and state. I would also be fine with a UN protectorate.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: silversoul7]
    #1914120 - 09/14/03 12:01 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

A republic would be fine with me, since we have one here. The next step is for them to create their constitution. Having the UN control them would probably piss them off as much as having us control them. I have not seen very many instances of the UN not screwing something like this up.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1914535 - 09/14/03 04:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

As Afghanistan has showed installing US backed stooge "democratic" governments doesn't work. The second the US pulls out of Afghanistan Karzai will fall 6 minutes later. Exactly what will happen to any US stooge in Iraq.

As a wise man once said "There is no nation on earth that does not prefer it's own bad government to another nations good government".


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: Xlea321]
    #1918122 - 09/15/03 02:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

First of, the government in Afghanistan is not a democratic government. It is a provisionsal one. The country is still trying to rid itself of the Taliban and other problems that are plaguing it. The US did not set up the government either. I believe the UN backed it. NATO is in charge of Afghanistan now.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1918146 - 09/15/03 02:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The Northern Alliance warlords are in charge of Afghanistan now.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: Xlea321]
    #1918159 - 09/15/03 02:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Parts of it yes. I think the comparison between the two countries is a bad one anyway. Afghanistan is pretty much still in the dark ages, while Iraq is full of well educated people.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Wolfowitz Backs Off al-Qaida, Iraq Claim [Re: shakta]
    #1918169 - 09/15/03 02:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Pretty much all of it except Kabul.


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