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Offlineeve69
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How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians?
    #19125287 - 11/12/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I even have some people I love who are Catholic and Republican and they love war. I mean they act like they hate it but they are all about getting some righteous groove on when it comes to killing some impoverished Middle Eastern motherfuckers. What the fuck is up with that?

How can hawks believe they are of the religion of love and charity and peace? 

When did Jesus become the Ronald McDonald mascot of the American war machine? This is a perfect time for all you born again to make your case for Jesus the War God.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19125289 - 11/12/13 07:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

See my sig. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19125878 - 11/12/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - Mathew 10:34

Completely out of context. The next two sentences read: "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." - Matthew 10:35-36. BUT, as we all know, people cherry pick and attempt to apply scriptures to their own spin on things. The "sword" that Jesus refers to here is a metaphorical sword of division, like Manjushri's 'Sword of Discriminating Wisdom,' not a steel sword. But concrete-minded (those whose cognitive development is stuck in Concrete Operational Thought, not yet in Formal Operational Thought according to Jean Piaget, i.e., 'block-heads'), cannot even grok metaphor.

Such is the mentality of us-and-them thinking, the absence of the knowledge symbolized by the Yin-Yang. I just read an article about a downed pilot in WW II who found a spot of compassion at the hands of German soldiers who recovered him from the crash and the woman who cleaned his wounds and fed him. Within the rabid hordes of fanatic Muslim extremists, there is beauty to be found in the structures and art of their mosques. There is still infinitely important truth to be found amidst the world of bullshit that is Christendom. These are all "a pearl of great price" that can be found in the dung of the world - just like a P. cubensis mushroom sprouting from a cow patty.

I voted at age 18 for Richard M. Nixon, because he promised an end to the draft. I am embarrassed by that vote, and today I find that I don't want anything to do with political people who vote Republican. I used to be a Hawk until I took my first psychedelics, and I perceived my hamburger 'breathing' after a Morning Glory seed trip. I was hallucinating of course, but I never thought of a brown meat puck as a ground up dead cow before that moment. I was only 17 years old. I had wanted to become a microbiologist, perhaps to work in biological warfare. I once extracted Toxicodendron from Poison Oak berries, and was going to create an epidemic of rash by dropping it on toilet seats in Physical Education classes, so they'd close PE. I never did it, but you get the point. That malicious mind died, fortunately. I thought of allergic reactions, consequences to my private war. Refusing to Awaken, choosing to remain in The Matrix after one sees reality (like Cypher in The Matrix), is just evil IMO. Denying the truth was St. Peter's sin, in the Bible.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19126215 - 11/12/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I even have some people I love who are Catholic and Republican and they love war. I mean they act like they hate it but they are all about getting some righteous groove on when it comes to killing some impoverished Middle Eastern motherfuckers. What the fuck is up with that?

How can hawks believe they are of the religion of love and charity and peace? 

When did Jesus become the Ronald McDonald mascot of the American war machine? This is a perfect time for all you born again to make your case for Jesus the War God.




Christians and not wealthy republicans are the most gullible idiots there are. No offense religious shroomerites because youre at least open minded enough to try drugs of peace and love.

To be a christian means to accept and believe a whole lot of clearly dated, clearly man made, clearly contradictory bullshit.

This is not 100 percent, but it is the type of people who would populate following whats popular.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Yogi1]
    #19127269 - 11/12/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To be a christian means to accept and believe a whole lot of clearly dated, clearly man made, clearly contradictory bullshit.

This is not 100 percent, but it is the type of people who would populate following whats popular.


So, essentially, you have nullified the first part by the second part, and therefore you have said nothing at all. I regard all mythology with respect, not equal respect mind you, but the Christian myths are essential in the  development of Western civilization.  As a Westerner, they guide my psychology, and hence my life, and your's too. I have to tell you that whatever your issues are about Christianity, you clearly haven't looked long enough to discover its value, which is why you naively dismiss it so easily. You therefore don't have any idea of what it means to be a Christian from a truly informed position, from its deepest theology, not from popular religion.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19127360 - 11/12/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The worst atrocities of humankind have been committed in the name of a loving God.  This is very ancient history. 

Many Nazis felt it was their religious obligation to cleanse the world of "undesirables."  Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists today believe the same thing. 

Today, in the United States of America, fundamentalist, extremist Jews and Christians believe the same thing.  And, over the past 30 years, they have been slowly infiltrating the corridors of government.

Institutional religion is, without doubt (and with just a few notable exceptions), the most toxic, destructive force the world has ever known.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19127550 - 11/12/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Institutional religion isn't anything more than a reflection of the interiors of people. The institutions have no power other than the financial power tithed by their members. The world is not run by Opus Dei, a cabal of Zionists, or anything other than power-hungry politicians. Ideological opposition like Capitalism vs. Communism during the Cold War doesn't form today's political Yin-Yang. Fanatical Islam is not about 'Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate,' despite every sura of the Qur'an. It is just about power - 'my way or the highway.' Jews and Christians, if they are true to their faith, cannot be genocidal. I've seen Neo-Nazis claim to be Christian, but they are quite mad. I've known self-proclaimed Zionists, but none who were genocidal, wanting to cleanse undesirables. I don't think you see these things clearly at all. Sounds like uncomplicated paranoia to me. :shrug:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19127773 - 11/12/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
To be a christian means to accept and believe a whole lot of clearly dated, clearly man made, clearly contradictory bullshit.

This is not 100 percent, but it is the type of people who would populate following whats popular.


So, essentially, you have nullified the first part by the second part, and therefore you have said nothing at all. I regard all mythology with respect, not equal respect mind you, but the Christian myths are essential in the  development of Western civilization.  As a Westerner, they guide my psychology, and hence my life, and your's too. I have to tell you that whatever your issues are about Christianity, you clearly haven't looked long enough to discover its value, which is why you naively dismiss it so easily. You therefore don't have any idea of what it means to be a Christian from a truly informed position, from its deepest theology, not from popular religion.




It is 100 percent manmade bullshit. It is not 100 percent stupid people that believe. I only believe that the vast majority of believers are too stupid to critically think and reason.

You being one of the actual thinkers. You use reasoning with your beliefs. That's rare.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19127870 - 11/12/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I've seen Neo-Nazis claim to be Christian, but they are quite mad. I've known self-proclaimed Zionists, but none who were genocidal, wanting to cleanse undesirables.



You're living in some kind of intellectual utopia.  You need to read the daily newspapers more and watch less of Fox News.

Fundamentalist Christians -- the garden variety -- are, to any sane and rational observer, the single greatest threat to personal liberty in the U.S. today.  Perhaps the greatest threat to personal liberty the U.S. has ever known. 

With regard to Catholic fundamentalism, to his credit this current Pope has pulled back on the reins and told his followers to cool it with regard to their psycho self-loathing obsessions vis-a-vis women and LGBT people.  The last Pope would have fit in with the Third Reich mentality quite nicely -- what with his weekly homophobic rants and calls for women to "conform."

The institutionalization of spirituality is a plague upon humankind.  It inevitably festers and becomes something toxic.

Lots and lots of spiritual people 'get this.'  Buddhists in the know, for example, get this.

Hence the old ditty "If you encounter the Buddha in the street, kill him."


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OfflineB0b0
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19128156 - 11/12/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I always pondered the OPs question....If jesus were here today, he wouldn't be a republican.


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: B0b0]
    #19128180 - 11/12/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

B0b0 said:
I always pondered the OPs question....If jesus were here today, he wouldn't be a republican.




Too bad he wouldn't be a Christian either. Because Christianity is retarded.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19128757 - 11/12/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're living in some kind of intellectual utopia.  You need to read the daily newspapers more and watch less of Fox News.


Piss-poor analysis. I am a living intellectual, not a utopian. I do not read newspapers, neither do I watch Fox News. You on the other hand need to work on legitimate inquiry, the gathering of information in order to formulate an accurate evaluation of something. You might try the direct approach and simply ask a question. Here, you are entirely wrong because you are projecting your own assumptions onto me, and you're expressing your false impressions in an accusatory manner, which I find obnoxious.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Yogi1]
    #19128780 - 11/12/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Christianity is retarded.

Retarded means delayed, as a flame-retardant garment does not readily catch fire. But, if you mean that a two millennia old religion with over 200 denominations in the USA alone, and countless theologies, is retarded in the archaic sense of stupid, then it's time for you to look at some definitions of the word stupid.


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19128938 - 11/12/13 10:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Christianity is retarded.

Retarded means delayed, as a flame-retardant garment does not readily catch fire. But, if you mean that a two millennia old religion with over 200 denominations in the USA alone, and countless theologies, is retarded in the archaic sense of stupid, then it's time for you to look at some definitions of the word stupid.




I am retardant to Christian retardedness....


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Yogi1] * 1
    #19130261 - 11/13/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am retardant to Christian retardedness.

You are equally retardant to intelligent discourse.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleChronic7
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- [Re: eve69]
    #19130405 - 11/13/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

-


Edited by Chronic7 (01/18/19 02:54 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19130424 - 11/13/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Plus they wear their hair funny. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
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- [Re: Icelander]
    #19130441 - 11/13/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

-


Edited by Chronic7 (01/18/19 02:54 AM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19130595 - 11/13/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
I'm not taking about Jews but zionism



To your credit you've noted the distinction.  Many on the left do not.  Observers have labeled the tendency of hard leftists to lump together militant fundamentalist Zionist land-thieves with "The Jews" as the "New Anti-Semitism." 

As we see, the hard left can be as bigoted and ignorant as the hard right.

Some of the most fervent Zionists, btw, are evangelical fundamentalist Christians who believe Israel needs to be prepared as a landing pad for Spaceship Jesus when it returns from its 2,000 year journey.  This, apparently, to fulfill a prophesy in their Bible.

These fundamentalist Christians hate the Jews, deeply, yet they stand side-by-side with American Jewish Zionists at their rallies and the like.

Such is the place that religious fundamentalism in the world has brought us to today.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19130669 - 11/13/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dear Jesus: save us from your fanclub

thx


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"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19130682 - 11/13/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I am retardant to Christian retardedness.

You are equally retardant to intelligent discourse.



:canthelpbutlaugh:  :canthelpbutlaugh:  :canthelpbutlaugh:


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19130718 - 11/13/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'd imagine most Jewish people have never heard of Zionism or at least remain ignorant to what it's true agenda is, it's too easy to say 'its the Jews' and have someone to blame or lynch

It's also good to understand history & where we are headed if these power mad people are left running the show, unless we want to blindly walk into what happened in Russia


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19130867 - 11/13/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
I'd imagine most Jewish people have never heard of Zionism or at least remain ignorant to what it's true agenda is...



You may be right -- when it comes to non-observant Jews. 

Orthodox Jews, as I understand them, are for the most part ardent Zionists.  There are exceptions, of course, but I think that's generally the case.

Observant Jews in the other denominations (Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist) are probably all over the place on Zionism.  The farther to the left your politics lean, the more likely you are to see Zionism as a land-grab "justified" through the grabber's biblical beliefs.

The average non-observant cultural Jew on the street, I imagine, doesn't think much about any of this, one way or the other.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19131402 - 11/13/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
I'm not taking about Jews but zionism





Kill em all and let God sort em out. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Icelander]
    #19131611 - 11/13/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I thought Rastafarians were also Zionists.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19131641 - 11/13/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
To my knowledge it's not the Christians that are controlling Washington & constantly warmongering it's the Israeli/Jewish influence, obviously some play their part & claim to be Christians

If you look at Jewish history Zionism is a religion of warmongering, it's what they do, warmongering, pedophilia, blood sacrifices... they rarely get their hands dirty in wars tho & send the goyim slaves, the USA or any other gentile nations they have colonized, to die in their war on the arabs & ultimately on all humanity

The corruption of politics, media (just look at Hollyweird), the press, banking, it's all the zionists




Have you been reading The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I hope you realize that you sound like an anti-Semitic bigot.  "warmongering, pedophilia, blood sacrifices" Really? That is medieval rhetoric, and you don't know that any of such crap is real because (1) it's hate propaganda, and (2) such information is so transparently false that anyone with any sense could see that immediately. Cabals of perversity do not allow their dirty little secrets to trickle down to some stoner on The Shroomery. :lol:  You seem to be confusing culturally Jewish business prowess with religion-political agendas. No doubt there are fundamentalist Jews, called Zionists, but there are also Orthodox Jews who are anti-Zionist and advocate assimilation. A Jewish state is actually forbidden in the Torah. Zionists hate this guy.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/13/13 10:59 PM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19131855 - 11/13/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Have you been reading The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I hope you realize that you sound like an anti-Semitic bigot.  "warmongering, pedophilia, blood sacrifices" Really? That is medieval rhetoric, and you don't know that any of such crap is real because (1) it's hate propaganda, and (2) such information is so transparently false that anyone with any sense could see that immediately.



We disagree on many things, Markos, so it's nice to be able to acknowledge my agreement with you on this point.

I felt, with regard to that post of his, as I felt with the "Muslims eating pussy" posts. 

Sad, that people would use this forum -- "Spirituality and Mysticism" -- to express that level of bigotry and ignorance.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19131888 - 11/13/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's horribly sad.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19132859 - 11/13/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's so fucking horribly sad that it saddens me to the saddest degree. :sad::hissyfit::frown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Offlineeve69
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Icelander]
    #19133203 - 11/13/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Horribly, filling over and all over the place


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19133845 - 11/13/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Have you been reading The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I hope you realize that you sound like an anti-Semitic bigot.  "warmongering, pedophilia, blood sacrifices" Really? That is medieval rhetoric, and you don't know that any of such crap is real because (1) it's hate propaganda, and (2) such information is so transparently false that anyone with any sense could see that immediately.



We disagree on many things, Markos, so it's nice to be able to acknowledge my agreement with you on this point.

I felt, with regard to that post of his, as I felt with the "Muslims eating pussy" posts. 

Sad, that people would use this forum -- "Spirituality and Mysticism" -- to express that level of bigotry and ignorance.




Thanks. I thought a wake-up call was in order, while retaining civility, and avoiding a ban. I am less and less tolerant of open bigotry. It tells the world what kind of unconsciousness you walk around with. Keep you hatred to yourself. I have my own prejudices, but not hatred, and I don't parrot utter bullshit that some people have kept half-alive in the creepy crypts of their unconscious. I used to know a Jewish woman from NY who told me that when she was in college, she met a girl from South Carolina who kept looking up at her hair. Apparently, Phyllis was the first Jew this southern bell had ever met in the flesh. Being a very bright person, Phyllis, who was aware of a whole lot of fucktard legend, asked the South Carolinian, "Are you looking for my horns?," to which the slightly surprised southerner nodded yes vigorously. Phyllis then told her, "They only come out after dark!" :lol: R.I.P. Phyllis. BTW, if you ever watch the film 'Midnight Cowboy,' there is a scene of Ratso Rizzo fantasizing about Miami Beach. There is a wheel chair race, and a dark-haired woman in a bathing suit with large green bows who is pushing a wheelchair. That was Phyllis.


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InvisibleChronic7
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- [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19134393 - 11/14/13 01:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

-


Edited by Chronic7 (01/18/19 02:53 AM)


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19134855 - 11/14/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's all true, everything about everybody at some time and in some place.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Icelander]
    #19134867 - 11/14/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm Jewish, so can we limit the talk to Christians who without conspiracy theory are warmongering Hawks?  If I wanted people to take the easy road of common place bigotry I would have said something about Jews. They are such easy targets.  Plus, since few people have ever known one the theory stays entirely in the conspiracy department.  I know since Christians are so commonplace people think they are all average and too bone dumb to plot things like takeover of the Middle East, but they have been plotting this since the Crusades, so history supports the argument.


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InvisibleChronic7
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- [Re: eve69]
    #19134893 - 11/14/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

-


Edited by Chronic7 (01/18/19 02:53 AM)


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19134985 - 11/14/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

As a christian myself I can attest that I have been planing a world takeover for many years now.  However I have only been able to recruit myself so far as my agenda is quite radical. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19135264 - 11/14/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Out of respect for people who identify as Jewish, and to acknowledge the suffering of the Jewish people, we need to be extra extra careful about lumping all Jews together with this or that characterization.  The Holocaust provides a graphic reminder of what happens when the "lumping" occurs and good people remain silent.

The settlements are clearly wrong and destructive.  All world leaders of good intent have denounced them.  The Obama Administration has denounced them, rightly so.

The settlements are not a "Jewish" thing.  They're a land-grab masquerading under the pretense of biblical "right." 

Lots and lots of Jews recognize that, and denounce Israel's policies.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19135346 - 11/14/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You don't know 'lots and lots of Jews.' Also Jews don't need you to speak up for them. That smug self righteousness is just inverse prejudice.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19135388 - 11/14/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think if there is to be one rule; it is to not judge a crowd, for ... serioussly?

-I am the kind of person who beliefs in God, but do not worship-


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19135453 - 11/14/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If any of you think I've been misled & these Zionists don't have an evil plan for total world domination then please feel free to inform me otherwise...

Quote:

The Chronic said:
I think Markos is aswell if I remember correctly, and my own father had some ashkenazi blood in him I think, which would make me part 'jewish' (part eastern European/khazarian) fair enough though, I apologize for the massive derailment of your thread




You know, it has been suggested that Hitler was 1/6 Jewish. This week a White Supremacist had his genetic profile read on a Black TV show, and he came out with 14% Sub-Saharan African genetics.
There is only one race, and it is human. I know a Chinese-American Jew, born in China. I have met African-American Jews. Judaism is a religion that may have bifurcated culturally in Sephardic Spanish cultures and Ashkenazie Eastern-European groups, but there are no genetic Jews. The genetics obviously derive from modifications of our Neolithic ancestors. And whereas my parents were of Romanian and probably German origin, and both were culturally Jewish, I have never had a strong Jewish identity, but technically, as my atheistic mom used to say, "You were born a Jew and you'll die a Jew." Strange coming from someone who did not want to hear anything about Light, days before she died of massive heart failure. Jewish was strictly adjectival for her, pertaining to culture.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/11/craig-cobb-white-supremacist-black_n_4256360.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

its also a fact that the tens of millions of christians that died in Russia (the biggest mass murder in human history we never hear about) were mostly at the hands of 'jewish' Zionists

I don't know where you got this. I knew Jewish parents of a childhood friend (his dad was a physician) who went to Russia in the late 60s and reported back to us, among other things, the status of Jews behind the Iron Curtain. There were pogroms against the Jewish shtetls of Czarist Russia for hundreds of years before the USSR. Jews has no power in Russia then, and certainly not in Stalinist USSR. You've been propagandized. There are corrupt people of every kind, but you have been fed and have not rejected a particularly virulent form of anti-Jewish rhetoric. At worst, ethnocentrism is the problem. It's culturally narcissistic. I can imagine that committed Hasidic Jews would like nothing better than to have everyone dress and act like they do, but in reality, there is a strong exclusivist element that would not consider the world's peoples to be members of their cult. I don't think Orthodox Jews want Scandinavians or Africans to go about looking like 19th century Poles, in black frock coats or female peasant-wear. They might see that as some kind of mockery even if for some reason these peoples were committed. Israel is not politically motivated to world conquest. If anything, the Muslim extremists want every people on earth to bow to Shiriah law. Rome is not crusading for Catholic conquest any more. You're looking through some real distorted views IMO.

I'm no Nazi hunter, but I smell fear when I see hate. It got back to me that a long-time acquaintance commented on my wife when we were dating, saying "I didn't think that a Black could graduate from Cornell." This guy graduated from the University of Chicago but became a humble middle school history teacher, while some of those Blacks that my wife went to Cornell with became high-powered attorneys, financiers, etc. I never would've hung out with that guy if I knew what a hater he was. He managed to get away with having sex with a 15 year old student, eventually getting caught by his wife and young kids, and later married the girl. So his total personality is loathsome to me. Gossiping is bad enough in life, but perpetuating stereotypes and dangerous lies is utterly reprehensible. Even one exception nullifies a stereotype as being true.


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/14/13 10:26 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19135455 - 11/14/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Out of respect for people who identify as Jewish, and to acknowledge the suffering of the Jewish people, we need to be extra extra careful about lumping all Jews together with this or that characterization.




I agree, it's just the extremist few which are very few in this case, and if I've offended or disturbed anyone I whole heartidly apologize, all I seek is the truth & will follow wherever that leads me no matter how unquestionable society views those avenues

I've spent many many hours the last few months researching history and to be honest i'm tired of it, at the end of the day the only way to free yourself from oppression is to not focus on the patterns of the past but live in the present


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19135611 - 11/14/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Out of respect for people who identify as Jewish, and to acknowledge the suffering of the Jewish people, we need to be extra extra careful about lumping all Jews together with this or that characterization.  The Holocaust provides a graphic reminder of what happens when the "lumping" occurs and good people remain silent.

The settlements are clearly wrong and destructive.  All world leaders of good intent have denounced them.  The Obama Administration has denounced them, rightly so.

The settlements are not a "Jewish" thing.  They're a land-grab masquerading under the pretense of biblical "right." 

Lots and lots of Jews recognize that, and denounce Israel's policies.





Jews haven't suffered any more than any other race of people.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19135620 - 11/14/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

all this beauty said:
Out of respect for people who identify as Jewish, and to acknowledge the suffering of the Jewish people, we need to be extra extra careful about lumping all Jews together with this or that characterization.




I agree, it's just the extremist few which are very few in this case, and if I've offended or disturbed anyone I whole heartidly apologize, all I seek is the truth & will follow wherever that leads me no matter how unquestionable society views those avenues

I've spent many many hours the last few months researching history and to be honest i'm tired of it, at the end of the day the only way to free yourself from oppression is to not focus on the patterns of the past but live in the present





You really don't know if it's just an extremist few.  Many of them might hold similar views without expressing them openly.

Jews are just as ugly and nice as any other group of humans.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19136395 - 11/14/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

I regard all mythology with respect, not equal respect mind you, but the Christian myths are essential in the  development of Western civilization.  As a Westerner, they guide my psychology, and hence my life, and your's too.




Examples? Do you think Biblical traditions are at the roots of Westerners' entrenchment in the belief of linear time?


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (11/14/13 02:47 PM)


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19136450 - 11/14/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Judeo-Christianity is responsible for the lack of care for the environment that typifies the complete and total devastation of the world ecosystem. "To rule over fish and fowl ye jackasses will, ye, woe."


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19136613 - 11/14/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

I regard all mythology with respect, not equal respect mind you, but the Christian myths are essential in the  development of Western civilization.  As a Westerner, they guide my psychology, and hence my life, and your's too.




Examples? Do you think Biblical traditions impacted Westerners' entrenchment in the belief of linear time?




Well, whether I like it or not, the Thou Shalt Nots from the Moses story has had a profound effect on my morals. It has had an effect on our judicial system as well. Adultery, forbidden in the Ten Commandments, along with murder, is illegal in 23 states in the USA! http://sex.omg-facts.com/Sex+Facts/Adultery-Is-Illegal-In-23-States/47686 Meanwhile, "whoremongers" mentioned in the New Testament, who "will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven," are legally exempted in only one state - Nevada. I have always had an aversion to adultery, refused opportunities, and was victim of it in my first marriage. Not so much a problem with 'fornication,' as a latecomer to Christian morals, but the Jewish morality was part of my formative years. Nevertheless, when I had this burst of Christian moral fervor in my 20s, in the 1970s when everyone was balling everyone, I struggled mightily with my late adolescent sexuality as I sought to 'rise on the planes of consciousness.' The Christian myths evoked neurotic guilt, causing me quite a lot of suffering. Being celibate in my 20s gave me migraine attacks that would last from Friday nights to Sunday nights, as the battle was waged internally. It was fucked up. I was fucked up. I hurt a number of girls who went way out of their way to visit me, and instead of us getting laid, I laid a celibacy trip on them. :banghead:

Linear time is critical to historical religions. I learned from Paths of Faith by Hutchinson that there are Historical, Cosmic, and Acosmic religions. Cosmic religions tend to embrace cyclic time, Mircea Eliade's 'Myth of the Eternal Return' that one finds in ancient Pagan faiths, even today's Neopagan and Wiccan groups, celebrate cyclic time, seasons, birth-life-death etc.. Acosmic religions, like Buddhism, marginalize time and seek to escape entrapment in temporal identity. I don't know a whole lot about Islam, but there seems to be a strong political agenda to make all peoples Muslim, while the evangelical fervor of Christianity seems rooted in myths of 'a new heaven and a new earth' as well as 'pie-in-the-sky-when-we-die' notions. Jews also have a timeline, but I do not think that converting the world to Judaism is intrinsic to the faith. Islam wants forced universality while Judaism is happy with its own exclusivity. Christianity in its Catholic form (catholic means universal) is ostensibly about being universal, although Catholicism forms syncretistic religious forms with other religions. There are so many Protestant denominations in the US alone, it's hard to generalize, but 'the end times' or 'the end of time' is clearly taken as a historical event almost everywhere. It is not explained as Eckhart Tolle explains it as a mystical movement for each of us when we identify with Being instead of egoic mind.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19136665 - 11/14/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Actually the popular 'End Times"  myth was capitolized upon by Hal Linden in his "Late Great Planet Earth" during the late 70s and coincided contemporarily with Jose Arguilles - book about the end of the Mayan calender. Thus we had two divergent end of the world scenarios which mush brained New Agers extrapolated to be some sort of universal prophecy. And which Mush brained Born-Agains accepted.  The pathetic cult the Mormons also have their - you will see the end of days before the end of your generation shit myth too which failed - all which failed.

I must say that when I got my Amex renewed until 2014 I felt real faith that life wouldn't end.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19136770 - 11/14/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Right, but now you're talking about Christian myth influences on Western psychopathology, which most people on this forum are already aware of, and subsequently why it's seen as a plague.  But yah, my thought was borrowed from Eliade and musing on the idea that Western 'death anxiety' is tangled up in the historical, linear time of Judeo-Christian thought.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19139080 - 11/14/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Right, but now you're talking about Christian myth influences on Western psychopathology, which most people on this forum are already aware of, and subsequently why it's seen as a plague.  But yah, my thought was borrowed from Eliade and musing on the idea that Western 'death anxiety' is tangled up in the historical, linear time of Judeo-Christian thought.




It's not the myths that are at fault. Myths are not fabricated out of thin air, they arise spontaneously from the collective unconscious. It is the mainstream, orthodox interpretations of the mythic images and stories. Gnostic interpretations of the entire Genesis accounts tell different stories with different conclusions. Edward Edinger's interpretation of Genesis in his book Ego and Archetype used Jungian concepts to explain just what is happening psychologically in the Genesis myth, and it is both Gnostic and fucking Brilliant! I have never read a better explanation anywhere. Yet mainstream Christianity, having adopted Augustine's notion of original Sin (completely unlike a Jewish interpretation) and you have sickened Christianity, laying blame on our mythic parents Adam and Eve, and claiming inherited sin and alienation from God. It is NOT the myth, it is the sick goddamn interpretation.



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Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/15/13 03:24 PM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19140750 - 11/15/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Right, but now you're talking about Christian myth influences on Western psychopathology, which most people on this forum are already aware of, and subsequently why it's seen as a plague.  But yah, my thought was borrowed from Eliade and musing on the idea that Western 'death anxiety' is tangled up in the historical, linear time of Judeo-Christian thought.




It's not the myths that are at fault. Myths are not fabricated out of thin air, they arise spontaneously from the collective unconscious. It is the mainstream, orthodox interpretations of the mythic images and stories. Gnostic interpretations of the entire Genesis accounts tell different stories with different conclusions. Edward Edinger's interpretation of Genesis in his book Ego and Archetype used Jungian concepts to explain just what is happening psychologically in the Genesis myth, and it is both Gnostic and fucking Brilliant! I have never read a better explanation anywhere. Yet mainstream Christianity, having adopted Augustine's notion of original Sin (completely unlike a Jewish interpretation) and you have sickened Christianity, laying blame on our mythic parents Adam and Eve, and claiming inherited sin and alienation from God. It is NOT the myth, it is the sick goddamn interpretation.



Great exchange.

The "myths" are good and natural and "right" for us human beings.  They are the way we take a very complicated universe and make sense of it.

The biblical Jesus myth is, in my opinion, the most sublime and transcendent echo of the mystical and transcendent experience ever devised by humankind.  It is so perfect and so instructive and so intuitive that it has never been surpassed in elegance or purpose.  In my opinion.

And I am not Christian, by the way.

The story of the Buddha is good, too.  The way of enlightenment, for Gautama Buddha, is our way as well.

Be still.  Sit under a tree.  Rely on the graciousness of the universe.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19141331 - 11/15/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm confident you would love Ego and Archetype as much as I do, and I've been familiar with this book for decades. My 70s copy has the original color plates, which I found particularly illuminating. Sometimes an old copy with the plates can be found in a university library, but it's the text, the explanation of the Genesis myth as the story of the birth of consciousness from the Matrix-Mater-Matter-Mother of the unconscious that blew me away. It all makes perfect sense from a Jungian perspective, based on a Jungian developmental model which intellectually elaborates the intuitively derived story.

Myths, like dreams, never refer to concrete meanings, they are all symbols and archetypes, which need to be unpacked to be understood correctly. It makes little sense for criticizers of Christianity to ridicule talking snakes and the like. Only children and the most childish minds would take the words of scriptural myth concretely. One of the problems is that even those who on the surface reject Christianity, they still have these archetypes as the infrastructure of their own psyches. They may try to throw the baby Jesus out with the bathwater, but they really can't. All they can do is reject the interpretations of these stories. Unfortunately, by rejecting it all, they reject nourishing their own psyches and consequently suffer from meaninglessness, nihilism, despair, depression, angst, and other sicknesses of the soul. Running to another religion is only a temporary diversion. It will only delay the inevitable.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/15/13 03:39 PM)


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19142073 - 11/15/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

It's not the myths that are at fault. Myths are not fabricated out of thin air, they arise spontaneously from the collective unconscious. It is the mainstream, orthodox interpretations of the mythic images and stories. Gnostic interpretations of the entire Genesis accounts tell different stories with different conclusions. Edward Edinger's interpretation of Genesis in his book Ego and Archetype used Jungian concepts to explain just what is happening psychologically in the Genesis myth, and it is both Gnostic and fucking Brilliant! I have never read a better explanation anywhere. Yet mainstream Christianity, having adopted Augustine's notion of original Sin (completely unlike a Jewish interpretation) and you have sickened Christianity, laying blame on our mythic parents Adam and Eve, and claiming inherited sin and alienation from God. It is NOT the myth, it is the sick goddamn interpretation.






Can't misinterpretations also have roots in myth? For example, if the virgin birth was a mistranslation of 'young woman', it also seems to have a roots in a longer history of 'miraculous birth' mythology.  What is the greater mystical significance of such a myth?  Also, which is more important of recognition, the misinterpretation of the virgin birth, or the significance of the archetype itself?  I've always found the idea of a magickal  'moon child' conception fascinating :shrug:, though that's rooted in a Dionysian hyper-sexuality.... I see a comparison though.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (11/15/13 08:59 PM)


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19143057 - 11/15/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I'm confident you would love Ego and Archetype as much as I do, and I've been familiar with this book for decades. My 70s copy has the original color plates, which I found particularly illuminating. Sometimes an old copy with the plates can be found in a university library, but it's the text, the explanation of the Genesis myth as the story of the birth of consciousness from the Matrix-Mater-Matter-Mother of the unconscious that blew me away. It all makes perfect sense from a Jungian perspective, based on a Jungian developmental model which intellectually elaborates the intuitively derived story.

Myths, like dreams, never refer to concrete meanings, they are all symbols and archetypes, which need to be unpacked to be understood correctly. It makes little sense for criticizers of Christianity to ridicule talking snakes and the like. Only children and the most childish minds would take the words of scriptural myth concretely. One of the problems is that even those who on the surface reject Christianity, they still have these archetypes as the infrastructure of their own psyches. They may try to throw the baby Jesus out with the bathwater, but they really can't. All they can do is reject the interpretations of these stories. Unfortunately, by rejecting it all, they reject nourishing their own psyches and consequently suffer from meaninglessness, nihilism, despair, depression, angst, and other sicknesses of the soul. Running to another religion is only a temporary diversion. It will only delay the inevitable.




Are you saying that rejecting Christianity leads to despair and depression? 

"It will only delay the inevitable." 

Which is?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: qman]
    #19143668 - 11/16/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No. I am saying that the same initiatory elements that are found in Christianity are to be found in other religions, but one will be distracted by the novelty of new ideas, new cultures, and all manner of extraneous issues before the inevitability of learning the archetypal themes that underlie all valid religions. Namely, the egoic mind, the "natural man," the desire-body, etc. needs to die before a resurrection of a higher more authentic self rises like the sun of enlightenment. Crucifixion of the body, for example, as depicted in Christianity is perhaps the richest imagery. Suspension between the opposites: between Heaven and Earth, between the good thief and the bad thief, a darkening that has long been depicted as a total solar eclipse by the moon, which correspond symbolically to blood and water, respectively. The veil which covered the Holy-of-Holies in the temple was said to have torn from top down, i.e., from heaven to Earth, allowing everyone to enter in to Sacred Space. The theme of suspension between the opposites can be isolated in Greek, Buddhist and Hindu myths as well, not to mention the Yoga processes of both faiths. From what I'm reading in Campbell, the archetypal themes are ubiquitous in the myths of all the ancient cultures of antiquity. But there is a certain pathos in the Passion Play that resonates with Westerners.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19143699 - 11/16/13 12:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A psycho-historical study of Matthew would be fascinating if more material was available. In fact, the gospels didn't really have author's names attached. Those were inserted by scribes later on. If Matthew the Judaizer misquoted, it was because he was reading the Greek Septuigint instead of the original Hebrew, and Greek only had one word for both young woman (alma) and virgin (betholah), namely parthenos. What is perceived as an error takes on layers of meaning in that it was mostly Greek-speaking non-Jews who were open to these writings after the first 150 years. We see what we want to see, and the Hellenistic psyche already had virgin births firmly established in ti. It was no effort to by another version.

The Isaiah text says 'young woman' was to be the mother of the prophesied messiah, and virgin births had no presence in Jewish midrash. It's odd that this word is used to refer to Hebrew sources, and myth to Hellenistic sources. Midrash was not intended to be taken literally either, but as illustrations of spiritual truths in story form.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19144414 - 11/16/13 07:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about prior to the written gospels, when it's still totally an oral tradition?  Doesn't it start through word of mouth that a man out there is healing the sick?  How is that a blameless myth from the collective unconscious or a parable not be taken literally and only to illustrate a teaching. It seems like it's preying on others' death anxiety and gullibility to rope them in :shrug:.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (11/16/13 04:07 PM)


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19146125 - 11/16/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, death anxiety, or more generally, anxiety, is a consequence of being self-aware. It is an existential illness like boredom, guilt, despair, and others. Myths do not arise as an unconscious remedy for anxiety. It we comprehended the transcendental value of myths more completely, we might experience a whole lot less anxiety than we do. If Knew what the Buddha is said to have Known, to the depth of his awareness, we would not be so attached to form, the form of our bodies and our mind's contents, and consequently, we would not worry so much over their eventual loss. I mean, I just signed up for a platinum Obamacare plan for peace of mind, but that decision is directly proportional to how much I worry about our health. It's gonna cost fully 1/2 of my monthly pension income, which means that I'm gonna have to start drawing money from investments for the first time. I know that all dependent arisings are impermanent. I know that all that is born, grows old, sickens, and dies. But not yet, or not if I can do anything about it! If Buddha had modern medicine available, he might have survived his poisoning. Instead, he laid down and died. Perhaps he didn't care at age 80, or perhaps he welcomed the mythic Nirvana.

The Christian myths are derivative of Greek, Hebrew, and Egyptian forerunners. Myth is a powerful and numinous force in the psyche. It would seem that any form of power can be misused, and indeed, with the kind of theological scaffolding that was built around the Christ myth, the Catholic Church DID rope multitudes into believing that they were sinners by heredity, damned without the sacraments, and hence, had better tithe their asses off to remain within the Church in order to receive the sacraments. The wealth of the Church and its power grew by such enslavement. Then the armies of the Church went out to conquer more peoples in order to become wealthier and more powerful. Those who resisted were tortured and/or murdered. Still wealthy, at least the Catholics have sopped immolating and crusading. The temple Judaism would be destroyed forever by 70 CE. It was corrupt and bloody from animal sacrifices, and probably had to go, though not necessarily from Roman genocide.

The Nazis had a long term plan to morph the Lutheran Church from celebrating a 1st century Jew to a Universal Christ, abstracted from any association with Judaism. Eventually, the Carolingian shaped cross would return to its equilateral shape, perhaps assume a Maltese cross form, and from that image it would gradually take the shape of a swastika. The symbol would be the herald of a theology that would re-assert Germanic gods.

I find it prudent to learn from the myths how to live here and now without recourse to metaphysical speculation about an afterlife. Living authentically as I can by taking the mythic peacefulness of Christ and Buddha to heart, probably does put a dent in my death anxiety. I am constitutionally anxiety-prone, yet I do not drug myself into quiescence, act out on others, or behave suicidally - all common enough attempts to quell anxiety. Like the Chinese alchemists, I too aspire to health and longevity at great expense to my other desires. Fortunately for me, my wife says things like "good health insurance is more valuable to me than trips to Hawaii." Death is inevitable, but taking this tack is a matter of going down fighting instead of cowering in "fear and trembling," which often looks like losing oneself in all manner of desires and impulses. Bottom line: Decide to live the Symbolic Life instead of losing oneself in the instinctual life. I swear that that's what's going on with many of those killing-spree suicides today, as well as going on unprotected sex-sprees and trying hard to contract AIDS. The drug addict trip buys into violence and sex, 1st and 2nd chakra obsession, veritable worship of Thanatos and Eros. All are "children of a lesser god."


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19146214 - 11/16/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Markos, if I extrapolate from what you just said then are hawkish Repugs acting out from death anxiety? And furthermore, from not having understood the internalization of myth and archetype. Instead they feel the need to reify internal things upon an unseeming and disordered world?


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19147864 - 11/16/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sure there are many delusionals who identify with archetypal contents. Charles Manson, Son of Man, thought he was Christ and the Devil, David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, Samson, another biblical and archetypal theme,  Richard Ramirez the Satanic slayer, etc. I'm saying that in a meaningless existence, some misdirected beings simply become obsessed/possessed by the most available, instinctual, urges with neither compassion or reason to temper those forces. And they act this primitive drama out, increasing the disorder of their world. Something archetypal is also at work, only its Qlippothic, chaotic, and for all practical purposes of language, evil. The direction wholeness/holiness takes, as evidenced by the mandala drawings of disordered individuals, is symmetry out of chaos, not the reverse.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19149355 - 11/17/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I'm sure there are many delusionals who identify with archetypal contents. Charles Manson, Son of Man, thought he was Christ and the Devil, David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, Samson, another biblical and archetypal theme,  Richard Ramirez the Satanic slayer, etc. I'm saying that in a meaningless existence, some misdirected beings simply become obsessed/possessed by the most available, instinctual, urges with neither compassion or reason to temper those forces.



Actually, much of institutional religion (not all, but much) encourages and reinforces delusional and psychotic behavior in its followers.

These institutions continually reinforce, through their teachings, that you the acolyte are essentially flawed and must adopt the "persona" of [fill in the name of the deity or "chosen one"] in order to be saved.  This, instead of the message that you are whole and complete, just as you are.

Mix this sort of teaching in with even the slightest of mental insecurities and you get the psychotic nut-jobs referenced in your post.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19149582 - 11/17/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ever been to a mass at a black Baptist church?  Talk about totally fucking insane. All that geeking out is truely psychotic, but people see other people emoting violently through their bodies and all of a sudden tourettes becomes a religious experience.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19149846 - 11/17/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Ever been to a mass at a black Baptist church?  Talk about totally fucking insane. All that geeking out is truely psychotic, but people see other people emoting violently through their bodies and all of a sudden tourettes becomes a religious experience.



Actually, I have a good friend who's an assistant minister or something at one of those churches.  I've attended services at her church and observed her and the parishioners go through the convulsions.

I have no problem with it.  Native Americans have religious/spiritual traditions that seem weird to my eyes too.  Lots of different ethnic/religious groups do.

As long as you're not bashing from the pulpit this or that group, however you want to give voice to your spiritual impulse is fine and dandy to me.


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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19150064 - 11/17/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Overemoting isn't therapeutic.  It actually promotes the rising of those feelings again. The old adage - at least I got my anger out when I got into that fight, isn't true. It's just the opposite actually. The more you express an emotion the easier it is for it to come up.  Overemoting is not a spiritual experience though it may be as close to one as many people will ever come. It is just an emotional experience and many of those people just do it because they see other people do it.  The whole outcome is people blathering like emotional idiots about mythical cues and convulsing with the attitude that they are choirboys. It's all just pathetic. Snakebiters. 

I was a Transcendental Meditation Sidha and we used to do 'levitation.'  Nobody ever levitated. We were all stuck in the first phase - hopping. 

Maharishi had -levitation Olympics- where people hopped up and down foam covered halls.  I never felt the impulse. But to join this one group of elitist all men yogis I had to prove I could -levitate.  So I started.  I did that about two years until I levitated (hopped) off of the foam mats onto the concrete floor and sprained my spine.


My point is that regardless of race this sort of autoerotic convulsion and rocking and barking and freaking right the fuck out - it's all just pathetic bullshit and has nothing to do with spirituality.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: How did Republican Hawks get the idea they were Christians? [Re: eve69]
    #19150262 - 11/17/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
I was a Transcendental Meditation Sidha and we used to do 'levitation.'  Nobody ever levitated. We were all stuck in the first phase - hopping. 

Maharishi had -levitation Olympics- where people hopped up and down foam covered halls.  I never felt the impulse. But to join this one group of elitist all men yogis I had to prove I could -levitate.  So I started.  I did that about two years until I levitated (hopped) off of the foam mats onto the concrete floor and sprained my spine.



I was young when I went through the TM thing.  Hadn't taken heavy drugs yet.  Hadn't read any of the classic drug literature.

So I thought they were selling something special, and I eagerly dished out the money.  You know... money in exchange for "enlightenment."  The concept is very appealing.

My first LSD trip and I said to myself "fuck this TM stuff."  Then they got into the levitation snake oil bullshit, and the gig was up.

There's a "seeker sucker" born every minute.  And plenty of greedy bastards ready to take their money.

Ask any former Mormon or Scientologist.


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