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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Do you think there would be an issue with cooling a substrate from the inside out?
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Like a shot of Liquid Nitrogen>\? Just wanted to chime in, I really don't know what the hell you guys are talking about with your buckets and your cooling. Just throwing this out there... I found this looking at solutions for my King Oysters.
Cold Pasteurization Methods:
It is necessary to pasteurize or sterilize your substrate prior to inoculating it with spawn. The decision of pasteurizing verses sterilizing depends on both your substrate and your species grown. In general, if you have a low nutrient value substrate like paper, cardboard, or straw, then pasteurization is sufficient and far cheaper than true sterilization. Sawdust varies in nutrient value, and can sometimes work well with a simple pasteurization step, and sometimes needs to be sterilized. For those that say Shiitake cannot be grown on pasteurized straw, I encourage you to look at this short Write-Up from a grower in San Diego who grows Shiitake quite successfully on straw. Since Straw works the best for Oyster Mushrooms, I will describe the process on straw:
To do a cold pasteurization step, you will need to soak your straw in a solution that will hydrate the straw and kill off the majority of single celled organisms present. There are a number of things you can use for this, but by far the best is hydrated lime. The exact concentration is not critical, just a big double handful in a 55 gallon drum of water. Then submerge your straw, weight it down so it does not float, and wait 12 to 24 hrs. No longer, as you do not want to develop a bunch of lime resistant organisms, between 16 and 18 hrs is perfect. After soaking, drain the excess water, bag the straw and inoculate it with your spawn. Works great, the typical BE is 150% to 175%, and the quality of the fruit bodies are better than with the hot water method.
Taken from http://www.alohaculturebank.com/low-tech-growing.html
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mushrume man
Sadis Factory



Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 375
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 17 days
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Re: I miss my bucket [Re: Sockadin]
#19147776 - 11/16/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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that could also be called chemical pasturisation. There is always the roaster oven tek from t bag, you could run four roasters for $100. For straw you can ferment it, as for oysters.
back to buckets... put one nested in another for insulation. Why not use loose coir instead of bricks to speed heating and mixing?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
mushrume man said: back to buckets... put one nested in another for insulation. Why not use loose coir instead of bricks to speed heating and mixing?
When I was doing bucket tek I would always break up my coir bricks beforehand. Might be why it worked well for me most of the time. I definitely think I'm gonna dig my buckets outta the shed and give stromriders way of thinking a shot. Something like heat 4 quarts to 180 pour and close. Temp should drop to 160ish pretty quick. Then 10-15 min later add another quart heated to 170-165 or so, mix and place in another bucket to keep the temps up. Would check the temp every 20 min to see if they were holding between 140-160. Shouldn't be too hard to get it just right.
But in the meantime I am trying something else that's easier than stove top pasteurization IMO, though not as simple as the beloved bucket I have read several times RR say that sterilized coir is no worse than pasteurized, as trich and most molds have a hard time germinating on it. I have yet to see anyone try to grow this way tho. So tonight I did what I have been wondering about for a while. I just sterilized the shit outta a whole load of sub and will be doing a couple little tubs with it just to see what happens. No matter what happens, results shall be posted with more tests planned for the future.
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MUSH HEAD420
Kush Commander



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 921
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I like my betty crocker roaster for pasteurization. Just put jar rings on the bottom, load some thick ziplock bags with sub, set roaster to 145, let it go for 4-5 hours. You can take temp if you want to make sure it is good.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Would check the temp every 20 min to see if they were holding between 140-160.
I'm looking for some links to quote, but it seems I've read that you're not supposed to take the probe in and out during the pasteurization period.
My understanding is that you would be exposing unpasteurized substrate to contaminants that won't be at temps long enough for pasteurization to occur.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Would check the temp every 20 min to see if they were holding between 140-160.
I'm looking for some links to quote, but it seems I've read that you're not supposed to take the probe in and out during the pasteurization period.
My understanding is that you would be exposing unpasteurized substrate to contaminants that won't be at temps long enough for pasteurization to occur.
If that's the case, I hope you're not spawning to a fruiting chamber that wasn't pasteurized as well.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: I miss my bucket [Re: Sockadin]
#19148871 - 11/17/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Do you think there would be an issue with cooling a substrate from the inside out?
Quote:
Sockadin said: Like a shot of Liquid Nitrogen>\?
No. I mean like sticking a frozen bottle of water down the middle of the bucket at the end.
I don't know why it would matter, but I'm not particularly educated in pasteurization biology. May be only one way to find out.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: I miss my bucket [Re: Psilicon]
#19148895 - 11/17/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the difference is that I'm spawning to a fully pasteurized substrate. Once pasteurized, it don't really matter
If I open my bucket before its fully pasteurized, like 20 minutes after I start my timer, I think the timer may stop because i've introduced new contams.
CVG may not matter as much and I could be wrong. I just wanted to point that out.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Well even if that was the case, it would only be for first run or so, to get the timing down. After that it would just be bucket business as usual. Though it's a good thing to keep in mind in case something did go south.
I am becoming more convinced in the reliability of coir. Will be interesting to see how my sterilized subs perform. In my mind 4-6 successful sterilized subs won't be a definitive result, but may encourage me to run a 10-15 more just to shore up the numbers.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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I'm pretty sure we're on the same page here. I'm doing some various experiments as well.
I have all these buckets and dammit, I intend to use them somehow.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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I've seen lots pictures and videos of oyster mushroom grows in buckets of moist cardboard and five-gallon outdoor FCs. Just a couple suggestions.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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I just got finished with a test.
I broke up my coir in a bucket, added 3 qts vermiculite and 4.5 qts of 175F water. I set the bucket in another bucket for insulation.
After 20 mins, I used my paint mixer to mix it all up real well and put the timer on 60 minutes.
After 60 minutes, the core temperature was 150F but the top and outer edge was 129F.
In my humble opinion, this is not proper pasteurization.
I will post results of my insulated bucket in about 20 minutes.
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Edited by SpitballJedi (11/17/13 12:13 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Almost the inverse of stovetop pasteurization where the core is cooler than the outside. Look forward to seeing the results of the insulated bucket.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Insulated bucket:
Core at 155. Top and outer edge 135.
I'll be sticking with jars for now. 
I'm gonna try and find a container that fits in my kettle nicely. I have a 12 qt canning pot that would fit nicely into my 23qt pc, except the handles get in the way.
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


Registered: 07/04/13
Posts: 1,150
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Well I've just made a tub using *modified* bucket tek...about 7 quarts clean rye spawn to coir / verm / gypsum.
Added 4 quarts 185 degree water to coir / verm for 20 minutes then added gypsum and 1 quart 190 degree water...
Hoping for good results 
Edit...then left for about 8 hours by accident cos I ended up going out all night getting all    then put outside in freezing cold for about 12 hours till making tub
Edited by Skinty (11/17/13 12:57 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Bummer about the tests, I got a few I might try soon as well. The results you put up here tho are giving me some ideas about how to proceed
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: I miss my bucket [Re: Skinty]
#19149735 - 11/17/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lol that's the way we do
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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