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Celestial Traveler
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Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? 1
#19123626 - 11/11/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am taking a drug class at my University, and today there was a "guest speaker" here to kick off the section about illicit drugs.
At some point in the lecture this graph was brought up. I recognized it immediately from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence.svg
Now first know that this is an entry-level pharmacy class, it is a big class and presumably filled with a lot of underclassmen at a public university, so probably NOT the smartest bunch when compared to the average college classroom.
So as such, the guest speaker felt the need to help interpret a pretty simple graph for them.
First, she stated that the Y-axis showed drugs' dependence potential. She got that part right.
Now here's the bullshit part.
This is a paraphrased version of how she explained the x-axis:
She said that the x-axis displayed HOW high of a dose of a particular substance was needed to have the corresponding dependence potential.
So if you look at the graph, for instance, she interpreted heroin's placement on the graph as saying that it would take a HIGH dose of heroin to have a HIGH dependence potential for the user.
Similarly for marijuana, she said that according to the graph, it would take a LOW dose of marijuana to have a moderate/low dependence potential.
Now correct me if I'm wrong (seriously) but I am 99.999% confident in my certainty that this is absolutely NOT what the x-axis on the graph meant.
The x-axis clearly states [active dose/lethal dose]. This is essentially the therapeutic ratio of a drug is it not? Therefore substances to the right of the graph are easier to overdose on, and substances to the left are much harder to overdose on.
I.E., It takes about 6x the amount of heroin that gets you high, to kill you.
And it takes about 100x the amount of caffeine that makes you stimulated, to kill you.
This to me seemed to be an extremely obvious fact. That's why it seemed very suspicious as if she were trying to bullshit her way around the truth.
Via her interpretation, she left the door open for insinuating that marijuana could possibly be more addictive than heroin, were HIGH doses of marijuana to be considered and compared next to HIGH doses of heroin.
In other words, her interpretation essentially implied that marijuana, LSD and Psilocybin have low dependence - but ONLY in LOW doses - therefore they might be on par with other more addictive drugs if their dependence potential were measured in similar/equal doses as harder drugs such as heroin or cocaine.
Either way, her interpretation clearly did not come anywhere close to the reality that the x-axis basically demonstrated how easy it would be to overdose on a substance when used recreationally.
I also loved it when one of the students raised their hand and asked if it could really be true that LSD is less addictive than marijuana. Yes, maybe all the "Marijuana is good, everything else is bad" crap you were taught all your life was just as much deceitful propaganda as reefer madness.
Edited by Celestial Traveler (11/11/13 09:50 PM)
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Yeah she was wrong if that's what she was saying, so many people are so naive about drugs, this is this ladys job, you would at least think she would've done her research.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



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I read the graph the way you do. Active/Lethal means more lethal to the right.
If you look, LSD/Psilocybin are labelled 0.001 and Heroin is labelled 0.2. What this means is that an active dose of heroin is 0.2(20%) of a lethal dose, which is why it is so easy to OD and die on the shit, whereas you would need 1000 times the active dose of Psilocybin/LSD to actually kill you.
And seriously man, who wants to deplete their stash THAT much all at once anyway?
Edited by Schmendrick (11/11/13 09:54 PM)
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Celestial Traveler
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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123672 - 11/11/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I mean that was completely obvious, and the whole time I was just facepalming the shit out of myself in my head. I really wanted to speak up. Man I should've spoken up and said something but people probably would've just thought I was a druggy.
It sucks when people abuse their position of authority, ESPECIALLY when that position of authority is in academia or some other area that allows them to control what others think is the absolute truth.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



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Edited my above post. This is just a bump.
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Celestial Traveler
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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123695 - 11/11/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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But yeah that was such bullshit, and it really pissed me off watching it. I witnessed propaganda in action, I guess. Was really kinda sad. And I think a lot of the people in there believed her. And it's such a simple graph too, it's really not that hard to interpret on your own.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: Yeah I mean that was completely obvious, and the whole time I was just facepalming the shit out of myself in my head. I really wanted to speak up. Man I should've spoken up and said something but people probably would've just thought I was a druggy.
It sucks when people abuse their position of authority, ESPECIALLY when that position of authority is in academia or some other area that allows them to control what others think is the absolute truth.
I would've spoken up because I don't really care how people view me, but yeah you likely would've got labeled a junkie for speaking your mind.
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Celestial Traveler
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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19123719 - 11/11/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It was a huge class in an auditorium, and I was sitting in the back. If I started shouting "Lies!" from the back I probably would've been asked to leave. Either way I do have some regrets, but there are something that are just futile from the beginning.
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Alexestalex
fallen angel

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I'm actually kind of shocked at how big of a mistake she made....
The x axis simply shows the comparison between the active dose (amount needed to get high) and the fatal dose (amount needed to OD and die). The closer the ratio is to 1, the closer the active dose is to the lethal dose- this means that the higher the number, the easier it is to OD on the drug. Your teacher is an idiot for thinking it has to do with dependency.
I'd go up to her and correct her. She just called out LSD/Mushies/Weed (three substances to be respected and adored) to be less safe than heroin! That's so offensive!
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Celestial Traveler
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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19123741 - 11/11/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know, but this was a "guest speaker" - I'll probably never see her again.
Ever so ironically, she kind of resembled "Dorothy Umbridge" or whatever her name is off of the Harry Potter movie...
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: It was a huge class in an auditorium, and I was sitting in the back. If I started shouting "Lies!" from the back I probably would've been asked to leave. Either way I do have some regrets, but there are something that are just futile from the beginning.
Well, you didn't necessarily need to start shouting "YOU LIE!!!" Like that republican senator.. whats his name? Anyway, back on topic... you could have just raised your hand and said "Ummmmm.... I think you might be interpreting the graph incorrectly".
Either way, take heart. If you were smart enough to figure it out, there were likely others who did too, but also didn't feel like getting targeted and so kept silent.
Next time you are in class though, perhaps you should bring it up, just to make sure everyone understands.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/11/13 10:09 PM)
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Redpill


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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123754 - 11/11/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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People can't tell the truth about drugs due to a combination of being uneducated about them and refusing to believe that everything the government and everyone of authority has ever told them about drugs is a lie. Most often a combination of the two.
What it boils down to is that those in power say it is one way and that trickles down to everyone who has faith in said power. Those people convince other people this is the truth, and they in turn elect people who are just as poorly educated to become those in power and create laws based on fallacy and spew the bullshit onto the next generation of sheep. And it's not just drugs. The whole system is a never ending circle-jerk of ignorance and bigotry.
Then of course there are those in power who know exactly what they're doing but prefer power over truth and dignity.
It really is sad how little the public knows about drugs. Hell, it's sad how little people know in general.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123759 - 11/11/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: I know, but this was a "guest speaker" - I'll probably never see her again.
Ever so ironically, she kind of resembled "Dorothy Umbridge" or whatever her name is off of the Harry Potter movie...
That's even more of a reason to say someting to her, now she's just going to keep spreading her lies at different schools..
also...
Quote:
Schmendrick said: Well, you didn't necessarily need to start shouting "YOU LIE!!!" Like that republican senator.. whats his name? Anyway, back on topic... you could have just raised your hand and said "Ummmmm.... I think you might be interpreting the graph incorrectly".
Either way, take heart. If you were smart enough to figure it out, there were likely others who did too, but also didn't feel like getting targeted and so kept silent.
Next time you are in class though, perhaps you should bring it up, just to make sure everyone understands.

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Lizard Eyes
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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123769 - 11/11/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My drug class had similar let downs. I had a DEA officer come in and lector us along with a cop.I got up and excused myself half way through both speakers. It was getting close to the point where holding my tongue would have been impossible. Other than the bullshit speakers it was a pretty cool class though. The teacher had me teach the LSD section so that was cool 
I also interpret the graph the way you did, and did so before reading this thread. That lady is full of shit and very stupid.
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 Every little thing is gonna be alright All you need is love Nobody's right, Nobody's wrong, Life's just a game it's just one epic holiday!
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Konyap

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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Lizard Eyes]
#19124137 - 11/11/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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She was right tho she just said it differently
a high dose of heroin I.E. one that could off you would be in the higher addictive range(speed kills)
the word dose makes her correct
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zZZz
jesus


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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: Konyap]
#19124283 - 11/12/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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there are so many factors at play in the drug culture there is really no telling what is true or not, drugs vary from individual to individual. i don't blame her, i don't blame anyone except those who purposely negate the facts and blur out bullshit to intentionally mislead people. i would have been wary of speaking out too because you never how people react to your response. maybe i'm being paranoid but what if she did this intentionally?.. perhaps to rouse well informed drug users?..
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kneesocks
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>why can't people just tell the truth
fixed that for you!
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
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zee007
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Re: Why can't people just tell the truth about drugs? [Re: kneesocks]
#19124354 - 11/12/13 12:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
kneesocks said: >why can't people just tell the truth
fixed that for you!
I'm just trying to protect your feelings, because I care
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