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Alexestalex
fallen angel

Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
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Why do people hate capitalism?
#19123208 - 11/11/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So I have a lot of acid-head friends who absolutely hate the concept of capitalism and seem to make really ignorant comments about how it limits our freedom, kills our creativity, makes us into zombies, and so forth. They also get riled up about how much money our government spends on expanding our army, buying high-tech weaponry, and so forth. I have a few serious questions for anybody who thinks this way:
(1) Do you value the concept of stability? Let me begin by saying that people are FUCKING crazy. This to me is fact. I've studied history and the sheer frequency of land being conquered is astounding. It's like a never ending loop: conquer land, burn it to the ground, kill EVERY SINGLE inhabitant brutally, RINSE AND REPEAT. It's disgusting, abhorable and mind-blowing that rational human beings have gone to these extremes. I don't think we appreciate the protection we get by living in a country like the United States, I feel like the lot of us just take it for granted.
(2) You can leave anytime, can't you? If you think life is about living in a forest, drinking ayehuasca, and connecting with nature, more power to you! You do not have to be part of this system nor does the system force you to be a part of it.
(3) Is your privacy an issue? This comment usually baffles me. If you have nothing illegal to hide, what are you worried about? If you DO have something to hide and are doing something wrong, don't you deserve to be caught?
--------------------
Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 1,855
Loc: Hug a hippie today
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19123262 - 11/11/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most the people who are of the persuasion you're talking about don't believe that anybody would attack us if we quit spending on defense. They understand very little of the world and think that everyone would just get along, or they think that countries like Iran or N Korea don't pose a serious risk.
They don't leave because mom and dad are still footing their bills, and who wants to give up that?
As for privacy, in what way is invasion of privacy in the US a major concern? At least we don't have cameras everywhere like Europe does. So the NSA looks at public phone records, who gives a shit? Nobody is sitting behind a desk analyzing your internet activity for posting on a mushroom forum or AboveTopSecret. Good luck telling that to someone who is so paranoid that they believe the illuminati watches us all, though.
Oops I forgot to answer your question. The answer is: Because they suck at it.
Edited by RiderOnTheStorm (11/11/13 08:58 PM)
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19123312 - 11/11/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Because they are disillusioned with their life.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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1) Yes, but man we do spend a LOT on defense. Who knows, maybe it is really needed, but seems like overkill to me ever since the fall of the USSR.
2) I agree.
3) Depends on your definition of 'something to hide'. I, for instance, just finished a very cleansing, fulfilling and life affirming trip which I feel has made me a better person. But I would not be surprised to find out that the local Sheriffs office for whom I work disagrees with my method of self-improvement.
^^I am a programmer and database admin guys, don't freak out. Actually, it's kind of funny because I DO drive a Sheriffs truck around all day. Has a big Texas star on the side of it
Edited by Schmendrick (11/11/13 09:07 PM)
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 14,344
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123497 - 11/11/13 09:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Capitalism is bullshit.
I've only done acid once, but i can see how that would contribute to seeing how shitty capitalism is.
Humans are animals, we aren't meant to live lives that consist of acquiring wealth and destroying our souls for some concept (money) that only exists to benefit a few individuals.
If i had one wish it would be to destroy the current paradigm that is capitalism. This machine kills creativity.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
underfliptown said: Capitalism is bullshit.
I've only done acid once, but i can see how that would contribute to seeing how shitty capitalism is.
Humans are animals, we aren't meant to live lives that consist of acquiring wealth and destroying our souls for some concept (money) that only exists to benefit a few individuals.
If i had one wish it would be to destroy the current paradigm that is capitalism. This machine kills creativity.
Or how about this... relax a bit, enjoy your youth and then when you're ready... join in on the capitalism gangbang. You know you wanna. It's a sausagefest in here and you know you love sausage.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/11/13 09:27 PM)
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 14,344
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick] 2
#19123534 - 11/11/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nah man!
Fuck that, i just wanna move into the woods and get away from this shit!
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
underfliptown said: Nah man!
Fuck that, i just wanna move into the woods and get away from this shit!
Been there, done that. It's nice.... did it for years actually. But after a while, you realize you really do like going to the movies once in a while, and the nearest theater is 350 miles away.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex] 3
#19123565 - 11/11/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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(1) The relative stability of the United States is due to reasons other than the existence of capitalism. Regardless, it would seem wrong to call something stable when we are still recovering from one of the worst market crashes is recent history--life in the US may be more stable when compared to life in the DRC but don't forget that in just the last hundred years we've seen both WWI and WWII and the great depression--some of the worst events of their kind in recorded human history--and they all occurred during the 'stability' provided by capitalism.
(2) No, leaving is not possible--the market is international and anywhere a profit can be made, you can be sure to see industrial development--the amazon... the arctic...--what isn't being directly effected by development, is being indirectly effected by climate change--isolated pacific islands... remote glacial mountain ranges...--leaving is not possible
(3) No, privacy isn't an issue--it's a right--of course I do things the government considers illegal--this site is built around the cultivation and use of a type of mushroom that is illegal throughout most of the world--i don't believe that i deserve to be punished for committing victimless crimes because i don't believe they are wrong--regardless, the right to privacy is something enshrined by just about every modern nation as far as i am aware, and i'm not exactly sure why you equate capitalism with a necessary loss of privacy--if this is how you view capitalism, i'm now even more unsure how you are able to be so enthusiastic about this type of economic system
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (1) The relative stability of the United States is due to reasons other than the existence of capitalism. Regardless, it would seem wrong to call something stable when we are still recovering from one of the worst market crashes is recent history--life in the US may be more stable when compared to life in the DRC but don't forget that in just the last hundred years we've seen both WWI and WWII and the great depression--some of the worst events of their kind in recorded human history--and they all occurred during the 'stability' provided by capitalism.
(2) No, leaving is not possible--the market is international and anywhere a profit can be made, you can be sure to see industrial development--the amazon... the arctic...--what isn't being directly effected by development, is being indirectly effected by climate change--isolated pacific islands... remote glacial mountain ranges...--leaving is not possible
(3) No, privacy isn't an issue--it's a right--of course I do things the government considers illegal--this site is built around the cultivation and use of a type of mushroom that is illegal throughout most of the world--i don't believe that i deserve to be punished for committing victimless crimes because i don't believe they are wrong--regardless, the right to privacy is something enshrined by just about every modern nation as far as i am aware, and i'm not exactly sure why you equate capitalism with a necessary loss of privacy--if this is how you view capitalism, i'm now even more unsure how you are able to be so enthusiastic about this type of economic system
Shiva's wisdom is most wise indeed
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 14,344
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123575 - 11/11/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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lol if i wanna go to the movies i'll eat some shrooms
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 682
Loc: HagsCrag, TLU
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Quote:
underfliptown said: lol if i wanna go to the movies i'll eat some shrooms
If you're seeing Harrison Ford on mushrooms, you need to send me a master culture slant.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/11/13 09:39 PM)
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 14,344
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19123593 - 11/11/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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hahahah! oh man!
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psychodelia
Not a cop


Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 2,284
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: underfliptown] 1
#19123608 - 11/11/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I used to think like this when I first got into weed and acid and I loved that image of being a conspiracy theorist and someone that naturally hates all that capitalism stuff, but I grew out of it and now try to be true to myself and not follow an image or bias way of thinking.
-------------------- don't be nervous
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: psychodelia]
#19123730 - 11/11/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Capitalism works if you do.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19123773 - 11/11/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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well for one we can't get rid off our defenses, we have made a mess and it's too late to go back. as much as i would want peace between all nations it's damn near impossible without a world wide catastrophe. no i do not think it's a good thing, but we have no choice now. so either i look like a fool or i pick up a gun and stand for the people. capitalism can suck my balls.
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stimpson
a superhero buddha



Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 1,331
Loc: ny
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
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i have a theory that the essence of capitalism is rooted in prostitution.
in that sense, capitalism would inhibit romance but it would also inhibit war.
actually, i might argue that capitalism fuels creativity because it would generate a need for people to develop new ways of making money and biding their time while they can't get laid.
-------------------- uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ... ok.
Edited by stimpson (11/11/13 10:17 PM)
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tripp23
Kratom Freak



Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 4,030
Loc: Florida, US
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: stimpson]
#19123781 - 11/11/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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because any type of "money system" is set to fail
-------------------- Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!

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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: nicechrisman]
#19123788 - 11/11/13 10:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: Because they are disillusioned
fixed
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Xingu
Stranger

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 932
Loc: NC
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex] 1
#19126937 - 11/12/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alexestalex said: So I have a lot of acid-head friends who absolutely hate the concept of capitalism and seem to make really ignorant comments about how it limits our freedom, kills our creativity, makes us into zombies, and so forth. They also get riled up about how much money our government spends on expanding our army, buying high-tech weaponry, and so forth. I have a few serious questions for anybody who thinks this way:
(1) Do you value the concept of stability? Let me begin by saying that people are FUCKING crazy. This to me is fact. I've studied history and the sheer frequency of land being conquered is astounding. It's like a never ending loop: conquer land, burn it to the ground, kill EVERY SINGLE inhabitant brutally, RINSE AND REPEAT. It's disgusting, abhorable and mind-blowing that rational human beings have gone to these extremes. I don't think we appreciate the protection we get by living in a country like the United States, I feel like the lot of us just take it for granted.
(2) You can leave anytime, can't you? If you think life is about living in a forest, drinking ayehuasca, and connecting with nature, more power to you! You do not have to be part of this system nor does the system force you to be a part of it.
(3) Is your privacy an issue? This comment usually baffles me. If you have nothing illegal to hide, what are you worried about? If you DO have something to hide and are doing something wrong, don't you deserve to be caught?
1) Protection? You mean picking fights with the entire world which is bound to catch up with us? That has more to do with foreign policy than capitalism. I'd rather the US have a foreign policy closer to the Swiss than Team America: World Police. Stability with a FIAT currency system based on fractional reserve lending that's in constant decline is laughably impossible. The boom/bust cycle will continue until one of the busts topples everything...such is the function of any pyramid scheme system like the dollar.
2) No. Leaving is not an option as it has an effect on the entire planetary ecosystem (those roads are the size necessary to fit the dump trucks which are hundreds of feet tall, btw): 
3) What am I worried about people being able to rifle through all of my stuff every day? Imagine if it was happening in person, I'm sure you'd object to such physical searches on a daily basis. It has nothing to do with the bullshit "if you have nothing to hide" nonsense. It's a basic violation of rights. "Wrong" and "illegal" are not synonymous, everyone on this forum would be in jail if everyone that "does something wrong" deserves to get caught. Furthermore, exactly how much does it cost to run operations like the NSA, and is the benefit worth the cost? Corruption is rife through public agencies and the justice system, so it's not like consistently unbiased and fair decisions result from such snooped evidence.
The important thing to understand for all of this, imo, is the biological/chemical/psychological-related variables which create societal stability, promote pro-social behavior, prevent self-destructive behavior, and foster people capable of significant innovation, self-reliance, and conscious progress. Given that we spend billions on defense, jailing people for minor drug offenses, subsidizing oil, and the like, it's embarrassing that we spend a relatively negligible fraction on brain research, stem cell research, battery tech, solar power, and similar future-looking technologies.
The problem is that we, here, partially due to many people's garbage concepts of religion and spirituality, think that it is our government's duty to punish anyone who would dare violate the revered law of the land, instead of envisioning a public system that prevents people from behaving in such ways in the first place. Mental and physical well being is not improving as capitalism matures...if anything health problems and the social/environmental/cultural consequences stemming from them are becoming increasingly serious and more widespread. Public health and civil rights (including security), imo, are the important metrics of an effective social system, otherwise what do you have? A bunch of high tech shit, luxurious houses, supercars, with owners who eat themselves to obesity while compulsively hoarding cats, ordering shit daily off of QVC, and being paranoid about their government spying on them. Some elements of capitalism and modern society work fairly well, and benefit a lot of people in fundamental ways, but it would be insane to ignore the staggering negative impacts of current institutional and economic dynamics.
Edited by Xingu (11/12/13 03:24 PM)
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex] 2
#19126958 - 11/12/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alexestalex said: So I have a lot of acid-head friends who absolutely hate the concept of capitalism and seem to make really ignorant comments about how it limits our freedom, kills our creativity, makes us into zombies, and so forth. They also get riled up about how much money our government spends on expanding our army, buying high-tech weaponry, and so forth. I have a few serious questions for anybody who thinks this way:
(1) Do you value the concept of stability? Let me begin by saying that people are FUCKING crazy. This to me is fact. I've studied history and the sheer frequency of land being conquered is astounding. It's like a never ending loop: conquer land, burn it to the ground, kill EVERY SINGLE inhabitant brutally, RINSE AND REPEAT. It's disgusting, abhorable and mind-blowing that rational human beings have gone to these extremes. I don't think we appreciate the protection we get by living in a country like the United States, I feel like the lot of us just take it for granted.
(2) You can leave anytime, can't you? If you think life is about living in a forest, drinking ayehuasca, and connecting with nature, more power to you! You do not have to be part of this system nor does the system force you to be a part of it.
(3) Is your privacy an issue? This comment usually baffles me. If you have nothing illegal to hide, what are you worried about? If you DO have something to hide and are doing something wrong, don't you deserve to be caught?
I was going to be on your side, but then I read your statement (3)
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 9,660
Loc: Mostly at home... Mostly....
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: NotTheDevil] 1
#19127014 - 11/12/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The people that hate capitalism are the same ones trying to get over on everyone else and be lap sponges.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: mpd]
#19127111 - 11/12/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Patlal]
#19127150 - 11/12/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
I'm not rich and I love capitalism
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 14 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#19127219 - 11/12/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: Because they are disillusioned with their life.
I and thought about the episode of south park where Cartman was hunting hippies. Stan, Kyle and Kenny met these suuper liberal hippies and they said something like," The corporations just want to use you to be there little ikemans and sell what they want and keep all the money" 
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
I'm not rich and I love capitalism
I also am not rich and I think Capitalism is the corner stone of The American dream. Tons of immigrants throughout history have come to this country for these very values, the idea that someone can start a business one day work hard and turn it into a real company/corporation is Very appealing to a lot of people.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,362
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Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18] 3
#19127231 - 11/12/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Because it has tremendous flaws, just like every other economicmodel thought up since the dawn of man.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 46 minutes, 2 seconds
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#19127248 - 11/12/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
I'm not rich and I love capitalism
Liar.
--------------------
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18] 4
#19127265 - 11/12/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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the biggest issue with capitalism is that it results in this HUGE gap between the rich and the poor. and over the past few decades this gap has continued to grow (the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer).
it's gotten to the point where alot of people put in their mandatory 40hrs a week and STILL don't make a living wage. even if they're SINGLE, without kids. i think it's cool that people can become rich as fuck in capitalist countries, but there should be some sort of income cap in place so that the wealthy don't leech the entire nation out of capital.
people living in multi-million dollar mansions while other people starve is kind of fucked up if you ask me....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
Edited by resonant111 (11/12/13 04:31 PM)
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: The Ecstatic] 5
#19127314 - 11/12/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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the problem with capitalism is that anyone who is at the very top can control a large portion of the country. money makes the countries go round. it also makes the laws, and it can break them and get away with them. any psycho path can get rich and end up owning ur ass and doing shit his way. is that what you capitalists supporters want?.. u want psycho paths running ur country.. because they already do.. thank you capitalism.
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Krackatus


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1,013
Loc: UK
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18] 2
#19127339 - 11/12/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's a flawed system like any other. The biggest problem I see with it is that we sacrifice every aspect society, ourselves and our relationship with the earth, in the pursuit of profit. Manufactoring and producing so much useless crap. Transporting it around the world. So much waste.
Everythings made for profit, ie. to appeal to the mass market (morons?). The only reason we have celebrities, pop culture and all that other shit is because of capitalism. The reason why MTV turned to shit? Capitalism. Justin Beiber and other talentless little fucktards like him? Capitalism. I don't need to go on.
It's a system that rewards ruthlessness and selfishness, instead of compassion and courage. It spawns object fetishism and vain pursuits of material wealth. Anyone who thinks it's great is misguided or is benefitting tremendously from it. It's completley unsustainable and it's destroying our planet. But apparently its the best system we've come up with so guess we're stuck with it for the time being eh?
Jacque Fresco and Terence Mckenna have the wisest words to say on the subject imo.
EDIT- Two great posts above me! ^
-------------------- "I thought I knew a lot about psychedelics before I encountered DMT... it showed me that I knew virtually nothing." - Terence McKenna
Edited by Krackatus (11/12/13 04:43 PM)
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz] 1
#19127358 - 11/12/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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it just sucks because most people just want basic things, while the filthy-rich people just make it that much harder for them to obtain basic necessities by taking such a big slice of the pie.
i met this homeless dude in chicago a few weeks ago who did AMAZING card magic and he was one of the coolest people i've ever met. poor as hell, but a heart of gold. when you meet people like that, it just makes you feel sick that our species is so cruel to those with very little....
--------------------
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127499 - 11/12/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said: the biggest issue with capitalism is that it results in this HUGE gap between the rich and the poor. and over the past few decades this gap has continued to grow (the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer).
it's gotten to the point where alot of people put in their mandatory 40hrs a week and STILL don't make a living wage. even if they're SINGLE, without kids. i think it's cool that people can become rich as fuck in capitalist countries, but there should be some sort of income cap in place so that the wealthy don't leech the entire nation out of capital.
people living in multi-million dollar mansions while other people starve is kind of fucked up if you ask me....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
There is no fixed amount of wealth Bill Gates did not steal his 60 billion dollars he created value in a company which before did not exist.
--------------------
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#19127523 - 11/12/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: There is no fixed amount of wealth Bill Gates did not steal his 60 billion dollars he created value in a company which before did not exist.
I realize that alot of multi-billionaires played the capitalist game very well and ended up getting paid off big time for doing so.
It just sucks that the gap between those super-rich people and starving people is so big. Yea, I wouldn't be using this computer without Bill Gates...it's still not fair that he has so much while others struggle to survive. There are lots of hard-working people who don't even make enough to get by...and that's just not cool.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Patlal]
#19127528 - 11/12/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
Not just the rich. Consumers love it and anybody with anything to contribute loves it. Losers hate it.
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127540 - 11/12/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
Gilgamesh18 said: There is no fixed amount of wealth Bill Gates did not steal his 60 billion dollars he created value in a company which before did not exist.
I realize that alot of multi-billionaires played the capitalist game very well and ended up getting paid off big time for doing so.
It just sucks that the gap between those super-rich people and starving people is so big. Yea, I wouldn't be using this computer without Bill Gates...it's still not fair that he has so much while others struggle to survive. There are lots of hard-working people who don't even make enough to get by...and that's just not cool.
Life isn't fair man and I think attempts to level the playing field aka socialism are the wrong way to go about fixing societal issues. Mainly due to the fact the best and brightest are penalized under it and it removes motivations to work.
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JesusIsLord
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127554 - 11/12/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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people hate capitalism because they have been conditioned by a generation of single mother households, media, and a regimented public school system to be dependent, take little to no initiative and responsibility for their lives, to be whiners and complainers that blame every shortcoming or obstacle present in their lives on some external source (capitalism, white male Christians, laws they disagree with, whatever).
people hate capitalism because they parrot the media and hate critical thinking - it's much easier to digest bullshit talking points. We listen to the drivel of the media octopus and its many tentacles instead which collectively despises freedom, autonomy, initiative, and a conscious/informed/aware public.
The argument that people hate capitalism is interestingly, though, as America is not capitalist, we are socialist and fascist. Whatever remains of our republic is labeled capitalist and evil. Instead of a nice bell curve of wealth distribution which is both broad and deep, we'll have a flat line of wealth distribution which is merely broad and shallow.
Incentive will flatline, and smart people will leave the country in droves as excelling isn't rewarded anymore. Blacks get hired for being black. Women get hired just for being women. Would you want a doctor who knew what the fuck he was doing? Or a doctor that was hired because they were a benefactor of affirmative action?
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#19127556 - 11/12/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Capitalism is fair
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127561 - 11/12/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
There are lots of hard-working people who don't even make enough to get by...and that's just not cool.
Maybe they should find a different line of work, or not have 3 children on a $40,000 per year salary.
If you want to be a chef or a farmer you should be conscious of the fact that you're going to make less money than a marketing analyst or a doctor.
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resonant111
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#19127562 - 11/12/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
Not just the rich. Consumers love it and anybody with anything to contribute loves it. Losers hate it.
There are a large number of people who contribute to capitalistic society day in and day out, yet get *very little* in return for their efforts. Anyone who works 40 hours plus a week deserves a living wage, especially if they are single and have not burdened society by having children they can't afford to raise. If that *one* requirement was fulfilled, i would have no beef with capitalism, whatsoever.
i guess i'm speaking for myself here, because i graduated college, work my ass off day in and day out (run the entire office for a local company, scheduling, payroll, accounts payable/receivable, everything...BY MYSELF) and still don't make enough to even *consider* living on my own. there are lots of people who make more in a day than i do in a week. i find that slightly unfair...and because i'm a recent college grad i have to stay at this shit fucking job to "gain experience."
so yea, alot of my theory is colored by my personal economic failures in this system. (which is odd because i've succeeded in EVERYTHING i've done...from school to the jobs i've held). i just find it shitty that i've worked my ass off my whole life in school and work and have nothing to show for it, financially speaking. it really kills me inside...i'm young and all i do is worry about money, cuz i have none and i'm not sure when i ever will.
WHOA IS ME.
Edited by resonant111 (11/12/13 05:35 PM)
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zZZz
jesus


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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19127564 - 11/12/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..
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JesusIsLord
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111] 2
#19127571 - 11/12/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
Not just the rich. Consumers love it and anybody with anything to contribute loves it. Losers hate it.
There are a large number of people who contribute to capitalistic society day in and day out, yet get *very little* in return for their efforts.
Anyone who works 40 hours plus a week deserves a living wage, especially if they are single and have not burdened society by having children they can't afford to raise. If that *one* requirement was fulfilled, i would have no beef with capitalism, whatsoever.
No one deserves anything. Period.
Think about how entitled what you just said is.
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127572 - 11/12/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..
What is not fair about that? Those things take skill and work to do too, and are more than the average person is willing to do to get their pie.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
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when you lie and say you need more pie, but in truth only need one pie, you take from others their piece of the pie. thus they go hungry on account of ur greed.
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127608 - 11/12/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: when you lie and say you need more pie, but in truth only need one pie, you take from others their piece of the pie. thus they go hungry on account of ur greed.
To the victor go the spoils. If you are dumb enough to give your pie to a conman you deserved to lose it.
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Krackatus


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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19127621 - 11/12/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Patlal said: People hate capitalism because they are poor and jealous of the rich
Rich people fucking love capitalism
Not just the rich. Consumers love it and anybody with anything to contribute loves it. Losers hate it.
Jesus christ youre havin a laugh. It's astounding how much ignorance you managed to cram into a single line. Anybody with anything to contribute loves it? Jesus man you are fucking lost. Like most people.
Edited by Krackatus (11/12/13 05:33 PM)
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.
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psi
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#19127673 - 11/12/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Gilgamesh18 said: There is no fixed amount of wealth Bill Gates did not steal his 60 billion dollars he created value in a company which before did not exist.
No, but there is a fixed amount of land, something that everyone needs access to in order to survive. When a small number of parties amass enough wealth to control the vast bulk of the available land, they basically call all the shots at that point because they monopolize both employment and access to the necessities of life. Anyone born not owning land can basically either work for them for a shit deal (perpetual debt) or die. When property rights are absolute and perpetual this is what things tend towards. Once you have an aristocratic class controlling all the land, the only way out really is violent revolution.
That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.
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JesusIsLord
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127681 - 11/12/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.
what about thinking someone "deserves" my money because I just make too much of it compared to them (i.e., socialism/communism) isn't greedy, lazy, and selfish?
in capitalism, people GIVE money to selfish people, voluntarily. in socialism, selfish people TAKE money from other people, involuntarily.
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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spixce
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Alexestalex]
#19127691 - 11/12/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't hate it, it is kinda unfair but nothing else will work with human beings
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127699 - 11/12/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.
What can I say, I like pie more than most people do, so much so that it's even in my signature! The difference is that I make pies, and therefore have more pie than others. You don't deserve my pie, you didn't make it or even pick the ingredients. If you clean the kitchen for me, I might give you a piece, but definitely not a whole one.
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resonant111
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: psi]
#19127701 - 11/12/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.
I agree with this entirely. I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
and that's the flaw with the system...if you make the compromise to trade that labor and time, you better be getting your reward for it...end of story.
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127713 - 11/12/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
psi said:
That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.
I agree with this entirely. I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
and that's the flaw with the system...if you make the compromise to trade that labor and time, you better be getting your reward for it...end of story.
obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.
remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127726 - 11/12/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
Quote:
zZZz said: exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.
what about thinking someone "deserves" my money because I just make too much of it compared to them (i.e., socialism/communism) isn't greedy, lazy, and selfish?
in capitalism, people GIVE money to selfish people, voluntarily. in socialism, selfish people TAKE money from other people, involuntarily.
im not saying it is a necessarily a bad thing, but that it is a breeding ground for greed. if you make your money the honest way well you deserve it, it's yours, but when you lie and crush those also wanting an equal opportunity is where the line is crossed.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127737 - 11/12/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..
That has nothing to do with capitalism and is an inevitable characteristic of socialism.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:
zZZz said: it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..
What is not fair about that? Those things take skill and work to do too, and are more than the average person is willing to do to get their pie.
So if I catch them I can take a baseball bat to their kneecaps? Just let me know if that's OK with you because I have no problem with that.
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resonant111
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127751 - 11/12/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
psi said:
I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.
remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.
yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.
and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.
i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127759 - 11/12/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
psi said:
That said, capitalism is a better system than most of the alternatives that have been explored. IMO it's best thought of as a set of compromises rather than a set of purist ideals that must be followed rigidly.
I agree with this entirely. I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
and that's the flaw with the system...if you make the compromise to trade that labor and time, you better be getting your reward for it...end of story.
obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.
remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.
He could probably make 15 or so an hour in any construction job around here as long as he is reasonably fit and not a fucking retard freakshow.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127768 - 11/12/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
psi said:
I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.
remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.
yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.
and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.
i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...
Ask for a raise
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Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111] 3
#19127769 - 11/12/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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People hate capitalism because of something called social capital. Basically what it means is that everyone is not equal, no matter what the constitution says. People who are born into privledge have a huge advantage due to social capital.
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19127774 - 11/12/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:
zZZz said: it isn't always fair. im sure there's a bunch of cheaters who got to the top by lying, cheating, or even killing..
What is not fair about that? Those things take skill and work to do too, and are more than the average person is willing to do to get their pie.
So if I catch them I can take a baseball bat to their kneecaps? Just let me know if that's OK with you because I have no problem with that.
That is perfectly congruent with my worldview, yes.
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Enlil
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127782 - 11/12/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
They pay better if you're still in college?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Gotcha. Are you sure that is how you want the world run?
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resonant111
left ∞ right

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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19127791 - 11/12/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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sorry to complain so much in my posts guys, i'm just in a shitter of a spot right now in my life economically and obviously venting.....it's easier to blame capitalism than it is to change my work-situation, that's all.
i just don't know what to do i guess...feel lost at fucking sea sometimes. i need a new career path or something to give me some goddamn hope
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Schmendrick
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Magicman69]
#19127796 - 11/12/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: People hate capitalism because of something called social capital. Basically what it means is that everyone is not equal, no matter what the constitution says. People who are born into privledge have a huge advantage due to social capital.
This. Money and power begets more money and power. It is possible to improve your circumstance through hard work in this country, but if you start poor, it doesn't matter how much money you make, you will never be with the 'in' crowd in your lifetime. You could be a self-made billionaire. Doesn't matter, the old money will look down on you and keep you in your place.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/12/13 05:59 PM)
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Darwin23
INFJ



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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127812 - 11/12/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't say that I hate capitalism but I would say it's less than ideal for many reasons. To start, it favors those with capital. People are born with much more capital than others. Here's a scenario:
Boone is born in a home where his parents are rich. Boone is a slacker and doesn't really work much. He smokes weed which he buys from Prolan. Prolan was raised in a violent, hopeless home without any capital. Prolan is hard-working and does fairly well considering his circumstances (still did worse than Boone who was put in SAT prep and pampered with tutors etc.). Prolan has an amazing idea that many people could use and would make lots of money. One day Boone and Prolan are smoking. Prolan brings the idea up to Boone. Boone likes the idea and because he has the capital (passed down through his parents) decides to invest in Prolan's idea. The idea is a big hit and they both get a bunch of money.
Here's the problem. Prolan did the work. Prolan wouldn't have gotten rich if he didn't have access to Boone's capital. Boone made money simply because he had money to begin with. He didn't do shit. Now, that's the best case scenario. Worse would be that Boone takes advantage of Prolan. Prolan doesn't have much of an option. Boone is totally in control of the situation because he has the capital. If he doesn't contribute, Prolan is fucked. Boone can behave like a tyrant and Prolan has little choice but to comply.
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Take a look at my journal
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127813 - 11/12/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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resonant111 said:
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resonant111 said:
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psi said:
I too try to see it as a set of compromises, ie: "i trade my labor for necessities...food, shelter, clothing"
HOWEVER...when i don't receive enough in RETURN for that labor, that's when i wonder what the fuck is up. If i'm making a compromise here, why am i not getting my fair share in return? (ie: enough for basic necessities).
obviously your skills aren't valued enough to reward you enough to satisfy you. there are higher skilled jobs that pay more.
remember, the market sets the value on your labor/services/products - not you. want to try to sell yourself for 20$ an hour flipping burgers while another guy will gladly do it for 10$ an hour? you'll be job hunting for a long, long time. want to sell yourself as a financial lawyer for 400$ an hour? you'll probably get it, because shit, people need your expertise.
yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.
and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.
i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...
show some initiative. put your boss to a decision. estimate how much value you add to the company and what you're being paid (comprehensively), and ask for a raise if you feel confident you have earned it. I'd be seeking work and have leads before you do this or jump ship. In order for others to value you, you must value yourself first. Valuing yourself won't happen by complaining on a message board though it may help you realize that could be a source of your problems. It will however happen by putting in the groundwork and by sheer determination making that your number one priority.
And your first job out of college is CRITICAL. It will essentially brand you/peg you and try to confine you to a certain income and job type for life.
What did you major in? Do you have loans?
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
Edited by JesusIsLord (11/12/13 06:03 PM)
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
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zZZz said: exactly, capitalism is greed. greed is the very root of our countries problems, and yet here u are a supporter of the problem.
What can I say, I like pie more than most people do, so much so that it's even in my signature! The difference is that I make pies, and therefore have more pie than others. You don't deserve my pie, you didn't make it or even pick the ingredients. If you clean the kitchen for me, I might give you a piece, but definitely not a whole one.
you like more pies than most people and there's nothing wrong with that. it's when you lie and steal the pies of others who worked hard for their pies is when the line is crossed. the greedy capitalists have more than enough pie to eat, but then they want everyone to make their pies, they want to spread their pies all over the world, they want to crush small businesses who are only trying to make a living and not trying to be filthy rich. these fuckers don't need that much pie, they just want it all because they are like leeches who don't know when enough is enough.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,503
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19127817 - 11/12/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Capitalism doesn't care about old money/new money. That's a cultural/social issue.
If you are trying to earn money to fit in with old money, you're in for disappointment.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127840 - 11/12/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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resonant111 said: sorry to complain so much in my posts guys, i'm just in a shitter of a spot right now in my life economically and obviously venting.....it's easier to blame capitalism than it is to change my work-situation, that's all.
i just don't know what to do i guess...feel lost at fucking sea sometimes. i need a new career path or something to give me some goddamn hope
Military, oil fields, drift on the wind soul searching, cure cancer, invent something, help someone, job hunt, acquire new skills, learn a language, travel somewhere completely alien. keep pushing on
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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i like cow poo
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Krackatus]
#19127886 - 11/12/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Krackatus said: It's a flawed system like any other. The biggest problem I see with it is that we sacrifice every aspect society, ourselves and our relationship with the earth, in the pursuit of profit. Manufactoring and producing so much useless crap. Transporting it around the world. So much waste.
Everythings made for profit, ie. to appeal to the mass market (morons?). The only reason we have celebrities, pop culture and all that other shit is because of capitalism. The reason why MTV turned to shit? Capitalism. Justin Beiber and other talentless little fucktards like him? Capitalism. I don't need to go on.
It's a system that rewards ruthlessness and selfishness, instead of compassion and courage. It spawns object fetishism and vain pursuits of material wealth. Anyone who thinks it's great is misguided or is benefitting tremendously from it. It's completley unsustainable and it's destroying our planet. But apparently its the best system we've come up with so guess we're stuck with it for the time being eh?
Jacque Fresco and Terence Mckenna have the wisest words to say on the subject imo.
EDIT- Two great posts above me! ^
Holy shit man I was just about to post about the Venus Project. I truly believe we could live in a much more just society. But perhaps humans are too stupid to realize we could live in peace and wisdom.
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127897 - 11/12/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
show some initiative. put your boss to a decision. estimate how much value you add to the company and what you're being paid (comprehensively), and ask for a raise if you feel confident you have earned it. I'd be seeking work and have leads before you do this or jump ship. In order for others to value you, you must value yourself first. Valuing yourself won't happen by complaining on a message board though it may help you realize that could be a source of your problems. It will however happen by putting in the groundwork and by sheer determination making that your number one priority.
And your first job out of college is CRITICAL. It will essentially brand you/peg you and try to confine you to a certain income and job type for life.
What did you major in? Do you have loans?
the biggest problem with my job is the hours. i do TONS of work but i'm able to get most of it done on a 25-30 hour workweek at $11.50 an hour. the boss knows this and basically makes me go home once everything is done....so i never get 40 hours a week, ever.
i just realized that if i worked true 40 hour weeks, 12 months out of the year i'd make $22,020 a year before taxes...not bank, but certainly alot better than what i make now.
as for my college loans...luckily i only owe $10k cuz i had a pretty fat scholarship. unfortunately my college degree is pointless unless i pursue more schooling...i have an english degree (yuck)...initially i was going to become a teacher or professor and actually decided in my 2nd year that teaching was definitely *not* for me. i could NOT drop out however because my school would have taken my scholarship away and i would have owed even MORE for those two years than if i just finished the four and got the degree.
long story but yea...college was kind of a waste of time for me. and now i'm in this place where i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here lol.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127906 - 11/12/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said: yea well that's the problem. even skill jobs nowadays don't pay shit, esp if you're out of college.
i run an ENTIRE OFFICE...by myself. i do everything...the accounting, the payroll, customer service, scheduling, tax shit, misc. computer shit that most people don't know how to do.....you couldn't just take a bum off the street and replace me. you have to learn how to do the job i do.
and nonetheless...i make jack shit. the owner of my company is going on some fucking vegas vacation next week to piss away money on strippers while i'm raking in weak-ass a paycheck that doesn't even give me enough cash to live on my own.
i hate to whine, but this was the only job i was able to get into out of college and i'm getting raped. the system is far from fair...
If you're so valuable you should have no problem getting a raise if you ask for it.
I walked out of university right into a high-paying job. Do you have a liberal arts degree by any chance?
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127911 - 11/12/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here
To the bar. Time to drink.
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127936 - 11/12/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
show some initiative. put your boss to a decision. estimate how much value you add to the company and what you're being paid (comprehensively), and ask for a raise if you feel confident you have earned it. I'd be seeking work and have leads before you do this or jump ship. In order for others to value you, you must value yourself first. Valuing yourself won't happen by complaining on a message board though it may help you realize that could be a source of your problems. It will however happen by putting in the groundwork and by sheer determination making that your number one priority.
And your first job out of college is CRITICAL. It will essentially brand you/peg you and try to confine you to a certain income and job type for life.
What did you major in? Do you have loans?
the biggest problem with my job is the hours. i do TONS of work but i'm able to get most of it done on a 25-30 hour workweek at $11.50 an hour. the boss knows this and basically makes me go home once everything is done....so i never get 40 hours a week, ever.
i just realized that if i worked true 40 hour weeks, 12 months out of the year i'd make $22,020 a year before taxes...not bank, but certainly alot better than what i make now.
as for my college loans...luckily i only owe $10k cuz i had a pretty fat scholarship. unfortunately my college degree is pointless unless i pursue more schooling...i have an english degree (yuck)...initially i was going to become a teacher or professor and actually decided in my 2nd year that teaching was definitely *not* for me. i could NOT drop out however because my school would have taken my scholarship away and i would have owed even MORE for those two years than if i just finished the four and got the degree.
long story but yea...college was kind of a waste of time for me. and now i'm in this place where i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here lol.
glass is half full - better than being homeless. you sound like you've got a brain in your head though so my advice, do something practical. I know a lot of guys making 60-90k a year doing trades. I make 90k a year plus benefits in my trade and I'm 25, granted I worked 65+ hours a week. But I make good coin.
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19127942 - 11/12/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
i have a really low-paying office job with bad hours and have no idea where to go from here
To the bar. Time to drink.
lol, the fact that i'm not an alcoholic yet is beyond me...so young...so many worries...always sober.
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resonant111
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Registered: 03/02/11
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Loc: IL
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127962 - 11/12/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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JesusIsLord said: glass is half full - better than being homeless. you sound like you've got a brain in your head though so my advice, do something practical. I know a lot of guys making 60-90k a year doing trades. I make 90k a year plus benefits in my trade and I'm 25, granted I worked 65+ hours a week. But I make good coin.
trades, as in like carpentry or electrician? i've actually considered this type of work because i actually prefer working with my hands over sitting on my ass all day anyway.
not to mention my dad almost six figures a year doing that type of stuff...sometimes i think my parents sent me down the wrong path with the whole college thing. both sides of my family are like, old-school trade-work type people and alot of them make serious bank too.
only problem is...i dont' have any experience doing ANY of that stuff. my dad is like a master of fixing shit and always wanted me to go down the white-collar path instead. so i never really got a chance to learn his craft...which i truly do admire. it's amazing the stuff he can do.
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Edited by resonant111 (11/12/13 06:29 PM)
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: resonant111]
#19127981 - 11/12/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
resonant111 said:
Quote:
JesusIsLord said: glass is half full - better than being homeless. you sound like you've got a brain in your head though so my advice, do something practical. I know a lot of guys making 60-90k a year doing trades. I make 90k a year plus benefits in my trade and I'm 25, granted I worked 65+ hours a week. But I make good coin.
trades, as in like carpentry or electrician? i've actually considered this type of work because i actually prefer working with my hands over sitting on my ass all day anyway.
not to mention my dad almost six figures a year doing that type of stuff...sometimes i think my parents sent me down the wrong path with the whole college thing. both sides of my family are like, old-school trade-work type people and alot of them make serious bank too.
only problem is...i dont' have any experience doing ANY of that stuff. my dad is like a master of fixing shit and always wanted me to go down the white-collar path instead. so i never really got a chance to learn his craft...which i truly do admire. it's amazing the stuff he can do.
yes. I am a weldor/fabricator myself, but there are all kinds of trades. I know LOTS of CDL drivers here in the oilfields that rake in 90-110k a year for what is essentially a simple, but important job that just requires your complete attention, care, and focus.
Working with your hands is very satisfying work IMHO.
Oh, and not to be a dick - but accept responsibility for your decisions. Your parents didn't make you go to college or anything, they were just trying to help you find your way, not force you. Your life is yours to do with what you will
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
Edited by JesusIsLord (11/12/13 06:42 PM)
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#19127985 - 11/12/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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hell I know a few geologists that make 120k a year. And everyone made fun of that major in college IME
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 1,855
Loc: Hug a hippie today
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: zZZz]
#19127995 - 11/12/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Gotcha. Are you sure that is how you want the world run?
That is how it's run, and I don't expect it to change anytime soon. Do you think it was unfair for JD Rockefeller to make his fortune atop the bodies of immigrant workers? I don't, I don't think it's morally just or right either, but I don't think it's unfair in the game of capitalism. Dog eat dog. If you put in the work to learn to hustle people I think you deserve the rewards. You also deserve what's hopefully coming to you, but you did earn the booty imo.
Stealing is another matter.
Quote:
zZZz said: you like more pies than most people and there's nothing wrong with that. it's when you lie and steal the pies of others who worked hard for their pies is when the line is crossed. the greedy capitalists have more than enough pie to eat, but then they want everyone to make their pies, they want to spread their pies all over the world, they want to crush small businesses who are only trying to make a living and not trying to be filthy rich. these fuckers don't need that much pie, they just want it all because they are like leeches who don't know when enough is enough.
How do you know how much pie a person needs? If everyone wants to make one guys pies, then more power to him for persuading them to do so, they all have the option of quitting and making pies for themselves but they don't because he apparently keeps them full enough.
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
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Fuck pie... except Huckleberry.
Edited by Schmendrick (11/12/13 06:37 PM)
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



Registered: 11/26/12
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19128003 - 11/12/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The cake is not real, pie is the only choice left that makes sense!
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



Registered: 08/04/13
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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said: The cake is not real, pie is the only choice left that makes sense!
Edited by Schmendrick (11/12/13 06:42 PM)
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 1,855
Loc: Hug a hippie today
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Re: Why do people hate capitalism? [Re: Schmendrick]
#19128033 - 11/12/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said: The cake is not real, pie is the only choice left that makes sense!
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