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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: nooneman]
#19122980 - 11/11/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: I largely agree with enlil, however, we're talking about one small subforum on a very large site. Deciding to heavily regulate and even censor the speech on a single subforum seems reasonable to me. We're not talking about sitewide policies. We're just talking about the pub. Why not have one highly regulated subforum? If you really want to go beyond what is allowed in the pub, you can always use any of the other forums including the user created forums.
Yes, there are issues of bias and vagueness regarding the definition of trolling. But, that's why trolling works, because of the vagueness involved in defining trolling. Anyone accused of trolling who is trolling is going to deny it. That virtually requires the mods and admins to make some decisions based on how they subjectively feel about the situation.
I don't think permabans should be given, though. I think the standard response should be to ban people from the pub specifically. If you can't handle being banned from the pub for a while then you really need to leave the house and find something to do with your life.
Being banned from one subforum of one internet forum for a temporary amount of time is not the end of the world.
Having said all that, I'm still in favor of killing rule 4.
The Pub is far from small. Maybe it used to be, but it gets the majority of the traffic of the community forums. Also it's a forum, not a sub-forum.
Permabans are usually only given to people who repeatedly and severely break the sitewide rules. (Looking for drug hookups/trying to sell drugs, Threatening peoples lives.. posting personal info.. Threatening to DDoS, etc). We do not hand out permabans for flaming in the pub.
If you've been temp banned from the Pub 5 times, temp banned from the site 4 times (for breaking sitewide rules), and warned 20 times, chances are you are close to a perma. Or for SEVERE offenses you might catch one right away. These are completely arbitrary numbers but you get the idea.
If all you do is break pub rules, then all you get is a Pub ban. However, if you are a repeat offender and go to other forums to start shit after being banned from another forum, you'll probably get a site ban. It's not completely set in stone but that's the general gist of it.
Everything is done on a case by case basis. We look at a users history and past offenses. Permabans are rare and they have to be approved by an admin.
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism]
#19123024 - 11/11/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It not being set in stone is a big issue.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: dark3st]
#19123045 - 11/11/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What ever happened with the new ban system they were thinking about implementing? Did they decide against it?
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: dark3st]
#19123048 - 11/11/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh, so we should just apply a blanket conclusion to everyone then? You get 20 points regardless of the offense and it's an automatic perma ban?
No, that does not work.
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism]
#19123054 - 11/11/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Neither does the current system.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: dark3st] 1
#19123062 - 11/11/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Says who? And why not?
Case-by-case basis is the most fair to users. We have 16 years of experience in this website to draw upon.
Believe me. You don't want a blanket concrete rule of X number of ban points and you get an automatic X ban. Neither does anyone else.
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volcomstoner
I'll have just one more xanax



Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 11,231
Loc: Minnesnowta
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: dark3st]
#19123065 - 11/11/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't see why people bitch co much about bans and make all sorts of demands. It's a drug forum, not a government
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HAIL SATAN Vas donc jouer dans le traffic
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,956
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism] 1
#19123125 - 11/11/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Case-by-case basis is the most fair to users.
Discretion leads to discrimination...always has and always will.
The "case-by-case basis" system is the perfect tool for moderators to express their own biases. I see it happen all the time. Users get banned for using the word "negro" while other users can call someone a "worthless piece of shit" and get a slap on the wrist.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Enlil]
#19123158 - 11/11/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Case-by-case basis is the most fair to users.
Discretion leads to discrimination...always has and always will.
The "case-by-case basis" system is the perfect tool for moderators to express their own biases. I see it happen all the time. Users get banned for using the word "negro" while other users can call someone a "worthless piece of shit" and get a slap on the wrist.
This x5
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Enlil]
#19123163 - 11/11/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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And I'm the one slapping people on the wrist.
Case-by-case also means that admins can review and overturn if they think it was unjust. Which does happen.
You have a better solution?
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Enlil]
#19123162 - 11/11/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Case-by-case basis is the most fair to users.
Discretion leads to discrimination...always has and always will.
The "case-by-case basis" system is the perfect tool for moderators to express their own biases. I see it happen all the time. Users get banned for using the word "negro" while other users can call someone a "worthless piece of shit" and get a slap on the wrist.
Yeah, I've definitely seen mods be biased before, but IME/IMO most of the times they make the right call.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism] 1
#19123176 - 11/11/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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slap da bass
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volcomstoner
I'll have just one more xanax



Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 11,231
Loc: Minnesnowta
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19123188 - 11/11/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Case-by-case basis is the most fair to users.
Discretion leads to discrimination...always has and always will.
The "case-by-case basis" system is the perfect tool for moderators to express their own biases. I see it happen all the time. Users get banned for using the word "negro" while other users can call someone a "worthless piece of shit" and get a slap on the wrist.
Yeah, I've definitely seen mods be biased before, but IME/IMO most of the times they make the right call.
Yeah, you wanna see some shitty biased modding go to the growery...
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HAIL SATAN Vas donc jouer dans le traffic
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,956
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism]
#19123206 - 11/11/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: And I'm the one slapping people on the wrist.
Don't you think the outcome of such things should be decided by something other than a random process that determines who gets the notification?Quote:
Case-by-case also means that admins can review and overturn if they think it was unjust. Which does happen.
What also happens is that people submit support tickets about discipline actions, and those tickets get sent to an admin that logs in every 6 months. By the time the admin sees the ticket, the person's ban has already expired, making the ticket moot, and the ticket system totally ineffective as a check against moderator bias.Quote:
You have a better solution?
You just went on and on about having 16 years experience...shouldn't YOU have the better solution?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: volcomstoner]
#19123209 - 11/11/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can be biased and heavy handed if you guys really want....
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: volcomstoner]
#19123213 - 11/11/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
volcomstoner said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Case-by-case basis is the most fair to users.
Discretion leads to discrimination...always has and always will.
The "case-by-case basis" system is the perfect tool for moderators to express their own biases. I see it happen all the time. Users get banned for using the word "negro" while other users can call someone a "worthless piece of shit" and get a slap on the wrist.
Yeah, I've definitely seen mods be biased before, but IME/IMO most of the times they make the right call.
Yeah, you wanna see some shitty biased modding go to the growery...
I think the mods here are a lot better than the mods of most other IMBs
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dark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism]
#19123229 - 11/11/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You already are. We all.are it's human nature. That's the problem. Enlil has outlineed a few suggestions
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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volcomstoner
I'll have just one more xanax



Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 11,231
Loc: Minnesnowta
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19123232 - 11/11/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Growery used to have the best modding out of any forum IMO but one of them had to get all douchey telling other members I was ripping plants in the chat, so I called him out on it. Now I get banned every week, no lie I got banned yesterday for calling MYSELF a faggot. Because apparently he's the only one allowed to say faggot in the smoke lounge 
Shroomery has been awesome when it comes to modding though, one of the best for sure
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HAIL SATAN Vas donc jouer dans le traffic
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Enlil]
#19123263 - 11/11/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Don't you think the outcome of such things should be decided by something other than a random process that determines who gets the notification?
No. It's not random. The notification goes to every mod of that forum.
Quote:
at also happens is that people submit support tickets about discipline actions, and those tickets get sent to an admin that logs in every 6 months. By the time the admin sees the ticket, the person's ban has already expired, making the ticket moot, and the ticket system totally ineffective as a check against moderator bias.
Bullshit.
Quote:
You have a better solution?
Quote:
You just went on and on about having 16 years experience...shouldn't YOU have the better solution?
I went on and on? I mentioned it in one sentence.
You are the one criticizing. So what's your better solution?
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: ATTN: Trolling, flaming and BS [Re: Shroomism]
#19123268 - 11/11/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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