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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Konyap]
    #19122995 - 11/11/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
you guys should go live in the 1920's, you'd like it then



I actually would have liked to have been born in the late forties and be in retirement now.




oh great so you're one of those people that beleives hardwork pays off, you know that's when welfare and food stamps came around essentially?



No I just wanted to live in a simpler time while still being in the modern age.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Konyap]
    #19123000 - 11/11/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
You can't expect things like college, trade schools and even business to function without a minimum wage

It'd be similar to a caste system no matter what you're interpretation of the will of the ten elite families



explain? because thats an asinine statement on every front.




no it's not, it's historical and worldly evidence



please show me how business can't function without a minimum wage


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19122999 - 11/11/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
you guys should go live in the 1920's, you'd like it then



I actually would have liked to have been born in the late forties and be in retirement now.





Ah, young enough to reap the benefits of the World Wars, but young enough you wouldn't have to fight them.  So you can have decades of prosperity, and ruin the country for your children.


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19123015 - 11/11/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
you guys should go live in the 1920's, you'd like it then



I actually would have liked to have been born in the late forties and be in retirement now.




oh great so you're one of those people that beleives hardwork pays off, you know that's when welfare and food stamps came around essentially?



No I just wanted to live in a simpler time while still being in the modern age.




and reap off the welfare,min wage and food stamps that were bipartision during the economic growth that took place.

but then again if we didn't have minimums it's likely you would have went to 'nam


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19123019 - 11/11/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
you guys should go live in the 1920's, you'd like it then



I actually would have liked to have been born in the late forties and be in retirement now.





Ah, young enough to reap the benefits of the World Wars, but young enough you wouldn't have to fight them.  So you can have decades of prosperity, and ruin the country for your children.



Pretty much :tongue2:


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19123033 - 11/11/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You guys would be in a pile of corpses somewhere in the jungle after you found out the goverment handled college loans:lol:


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Konyap]
    #19123080 - 11/11/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
You guys would be in a pile of corpses somewhere in the jungle after you found out the goverment handled college loans:lol:



what the fuck are you rambling about? Don't ignore my question, how would business stop working if the minimum wage was gone? Don't make silly statements unless you can back them up.

oh and you are aware of the concept of private loans right?


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19123107 - 11/11/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

work without min. wage is fucking internship and forced labor

ook?


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Konyap]
    #19123119 - 11/11/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

and fed min wage also is supposed to go up with inflation produced by the fed reserve like I said earlier

it's basic common sense to not get rid of something that is larger then you and has an effect on more people then you but people will always complain so this will make another night on the shroomery useless


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Konyap]
    #19123133 - 11/11/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

internships are  great starts to careers :billymaythumbup: I'm a paid intern right now for a business consultancy, its great!

oh and i don't think you understand the definition of forced labor.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19123141 - 11/11/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

chin chon chin chong chin chin


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Konyap]
    #19123155 - 11/11/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
chin chon chin chong chin chin



Is this it is this the best the LEFT can do?


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19123168 - 11/11/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
chin chon chin chong chin chin



Is this it is this the best the LEFT can do?



University education lol


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19123228 - 11/11/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
You can't expect things like college, trade schools and even business to function without a minimum wage

It'd be similar to a caste system no matter what you're interpretation of the will of the ten elite families



Dude what minimum wage limits the number of workers being hired since labor costs are one of the highest expenses a business has. If a shop pays 10 cents an hour guess what no one will work for it. It is likely that with the removal of minimum wage wages would be relatively the same. In essence you are paid what you are worth.




Maybe not 10 cents an hour, but there would certainly be migrant workers willing to work for less than minimum wage. For every shit job that you give up, there are at least 3 workers to replace you. So in that sense, can we really make a change by refusing to accept low paying jobs? All that would come out of abolishing minimum wage is a caste system where the rich and poor become further divided, and people work for slave labor wages with no overtime pay or holidays. Let's go back to the 1920's, folks!

Quote:

psyconaught said:
i blame the government for going to war in the first place. they were already going to spend the money they just gave the contact to a private company instead of the military. do you really think that if they simply didn't have private contractors the defense budget wouldn't be as large as it is today?`




You claim that the market is far more efficient than the government. Yet corporations getting involved in prisons and the military has proven to be the exact opposite of cost-efficiency, this is the point I'm making here.

You forget that greed is the underlying root of why political systems have failed throughout history. Greed is the reason communism has always failed, and greed is the exact same reason free-market capitalism will fail. That is why you have to use a little bit of each type of system to ensure that greed will not overtake the entire system.


Edited by Crystal G (11/11/13 09:45 PM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19123243 - 11/11/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

those instances of course they cost a lot of money. Because they had big fat government contracts that would pay anything. Things only get out of hand when government gets involved. Greed is what drives every human, the profit incentive. Capitalism simply exploits this most basic of human motivators and makes it benefit the rest of society.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19123245 - 11/11/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
You claim that the market is far more efficient than the government. Yet corporations getting involved in prisons and the military has proven to be the exact opposite of cost-efficiency, this is the point I'm making here.




Please provide your source that supports your claim that private prisons are less cost efficient than public prisons.  Thanks in advance.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19123248 - 11/11/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Theirs a reason those jobs pay so little though literally anyone can do them the market rewards highly skilled individuals not a minimum wage worker. Our society should focus on becoming a meritocracy with laissez-faire capitalism as the economic system truly great things could be accomplished.


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19123272 - 11/11/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

NERD!!

but i digress it's good to talk about this stuff rather then who banged who


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Enlil]
    #19123314 - 11/11/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
You claim that the market is far more efficient than the government. Yet corporations getting involved in prisons and the military has proven to be the exact opposite of cost-efficiency, this is the point I'm making here.




Please provide your source that supports your claim that private prisons are less cost efficient than public prisons.  Thanks in advance.




I have one that says that they cost around the same as state prisons, despite the fact that they are intended to increase profit: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/us/19prisons.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Quote:

A 2011 report by the American Civil Liberties Union point out that private prisons are more costly, more violent and less accountable than public prisons, and are actually a major contributor to increased mass incarceration.[29]



http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/bankingonbondage_20111102.pdf

And on top of that, if you actually include the fact that private prisons only house minor offenders and therefore likely don't have to pay for things like psych treatment for the worst offenders, they would actually cost MORE than state prisons were they to actually house the same prisoners.

Again, there are more sides to efficiency than just cost. Mass incarceration, while from a corporate stand-point would technically be considered "more efficient," from a societal and government perspective, it is not and just wastes money.


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19123367 - 11/11/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Theirs a reason those jobs pay so little though literally anyone can do them the market rewards highly skilled individuals not a minimum wage worker. Our society should focus on becoming a meritocracy with laissez-faire capitalism as the economic system truly great things could be accomplished.




People already have exorbitant financial incentive to create new inventions... we're talking in the millions and billions here. Exactly how would laissez-faire capitalism motivate people any more than our current system? If anything, turning all public schools into for-profit industries and discontinuing grants and financial aid would make education out of reach for a number of people. This actually means that there would be less innovations, since only people whose parents could afford education could possibly attain the mental tools and skills to use it to fruition.

Those jobs pay little, but you also have to account for people's time. People are taking themselves away from their family and from their short life and from all their dreams and the things they want to slave away at a corporation that doesn't give a shit about them. And then put in just as many hours and work just as hard, sometimes even harder, than the management or upper echelon. Don't they at the very least deserve a livable wage for that?

I mean think about it. Why do you think the welfare problem got so bad out of place to begin with? It's because CORPORATIONS DON'T PROVIDE LIVABLE WAGES FOR BASE WORKERS ANYMORE. If corporations actually provided a livable wage to begin with, people's dependence on food stamps and housing aid would go down.... a lot.


Edited by Crystal G (11/11/13 09:32 PM)


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