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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19120500 - 11/11/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
How is what you just said refuting anything I said whatsoever?

Do you think that private projects don't ever run over budget, though?



I am sure it happens but with the government its a certainty. As for research investment generally the government contracts private companies because surprise surprise private companies are more efficient and get the job done.


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Offlinempd
Lammen Gorthaur
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19120517 - 11/11/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
what would happen if a product randomly became astronomically priced? You wouldn't buy it. So the companies would either have to lower the prices or someone would come along and create a competing product.




That's not true and depends completely on people's dependence on the product. Everybody needs gasoline. Everybody needs electricity. Everybody needs food and water. Everybody needs toilet paper.




No, they don't.  Necessity is the mother of invention.  Toilet paper was invented to replace corn cobs.


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There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.


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Offlinekoods
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Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19120526 - 11/11/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The premise is somewhat flawed - that technological progress comes only from capitalist enterprise.

I think there are many examples where "socialist" type endeavors are responsible for advances where capitalism fails. In particular, basic science and medical research is almost entirely the domain of government spending, either directly or thought the grant system.

The increasingly disturbing incidence of antibiotic resistance is in part due to the fact phatmaceutical companies are are not interested in developing new antibiotics and budget cuts mean the public sector doesn't have the resources to do it either.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (11/11/13 01:11 PM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Enlil]
    #19120528 - 11/11/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Obviously, government research is necessary if we want to do crazy shit like put a man on the moon.  There's no commercial interest in doing that, so it wouldn't happen without government funding.

The question, however, is whether we should do shit like put a man on the moon....Certainly, some technologies came out of that endeavor, but were those technologies enough to justify the cost?  Further, should a government be choosing projects based on upholding a reputation among nations?



in reagards to the space program i would argue that this is one of the few government programs that have created more value and benefit than was put into it. The amount of spin off technology that comes out of NASA is incredible compared to its meager budget.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19120530 - 11/11/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I also just ran across this article that i feel is applicable to the discussion on whether capitalism benefits the masses
http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/11/cheer-up-things-are-getting-better


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Enlil]
    #19120541 - 11/11/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Obviously, government research is necessary if we want to do crazy shit like put a man on the moon.  There's no commercial interest in doing that, so it wouldn't happen without government funding.

The question, however, is whether we should do shit like put a man on the moon....Certainly, some technologies came out of that endeavor, but were those technologies enough to justify the cost?  Further, should a government be choosing projects based on upholding a reputation among nations?




Private companies would have eventually brought us to the moon.  However, we may still wouldn't be there today if it weren't for government. 

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
How is what you just said refuting anything I said whatsoever?

Do you think that private projects don't ever run over budget, though?



I am sure it happens but with the government its a certainty. As for research investment generally the government contracts private companies because surprise surprise private companies are more efficient and get the job done.




Tell that to Lockheed and their F-35 project.


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Offlinempd
Lammen Gorthaur
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: koods] * 1
    #19120558 - 11/11/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The premise is somewhat flawed - that technological progress comes only from capitalist enterprise.

I think there are many examples where "socialist" type endeavors are responsible for advances where capitalism fails. In particular, basic science and medical research is almost entirely the domain of government spending, either directly or thought the grant system.

The increasingly disturbing incidence of antibiotic resistance is in part due to the fact phatmaceutical companies are are not interested in developing new antibiotics and budget cuts mean the public sector doesn't have the resources to do it either.




What a crock of shit.  The grant system is powered by for-profit endeavors and those looking to capitalize on the advances of science.  Socialism my ass.


--------------------
There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.


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Offlinekoods
Ribbit
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,412
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19120577 - 11/11/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:

Tell that to Lockheed and their F-35 project.




Damn, I just drove by their headquarters on the way back from the grocery store. I could have dropped by and given them the message. Actually, maybe not. They often have some scary looking dudes at the front gate:



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: mpd] * 1
    #19120586 - 11/11/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
Quote:

koods said:
The premise is somewhat flawed - that technological progress comes only from capitalist enterprise.

I think there are many examples where "socialist" type endeavors are responsible for advances where capitalism fails. In particular, basic science and medical research is almost entirely the domain of government spending, either directly or thought the grant system.

The increasingly disturbing incidence of antibiotic resistance is in part due to the fact phatmaceutical companies are are not interested in developing new antibiotics and budget cuts mean the public sector doesn't have the resources to do it either.




What a crock of shit.  The grant system is powered by for-profit endeavors and those looking to capitalize on the advances of science.  Socialism my ass.




So, now spending taxpayer money isn't socialism? You guys need to make up your minds.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (11/11/13 01:19 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,590
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: koods]
    #19120708 - 11/11/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

LOL.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: koods]
    #19121761 - 11/11/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

mpd said:
Quote:

koods said:
The premise is somewhat flawed - that technological progress comes only from capitalist enterprise.

I think there are many examples where "socialist" type endeavors are responsible for advances where capitalism fails. In particular, basic science and medical research is almost entirely the domain of government spending, either directly or thought the grant system.

The increasingly disturbing incidence of antibiotic resistance is in part due to the fact phatmaceutical companies are are not interested in developing new antibiotics and budget cuts mean the public sector doesn't have the resources to do it either.




What a crock of shit.  The grant system is powered by for-profit endeavors and those looking to capitalize on the advances of science.  Socialism my ass.




So, now spending taxpayer money isn't socialism? You guys need to make up your minds.





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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 9 hours
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Enlil]
    #19121870 - 11/11/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:

Then there was that farmer in Canada whose neighbor was using Monsanto seeds, and the wind blew onto his farm combining his seeds with Monsanto's, extending in a lengthy court battle.



Of course this is more bullshit.  The court found that the farmer intentionally planted Monsanto seeds.

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/site/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/38991/index.do




Congratulations. You finally beat me at something. :lol:

Quote:

Enlil said:
Obviously, government research is necessary if we want to do crazy shit like put a man on the moon.  There's no commercial interest in doing that, so it wouldn't happen without government funding.

The question, however, is whether we should do shit like put a man on the moon....Certainly, some technologies came out of that endeavor, but were those technologies enough to justify the cost?  Further, should a government be choosing projects based on upholding a reputation among nations?




That's what I thought about the Mars Rover. I get it, it's really cool and everything. But they already sent numerous ones of them to Mars already checking the chemistry to see if it's inhabitable, was it really worth investing the billions of dollars it took just to send another one?


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 9 hours
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: mpd]
    #19121896 - 11/11/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
what would happen if a product randomly became astronomically priced? You wouldn't buy it. So the companies would either have to lower the prices or someone would come along and create a competing product.




That's not true and depends completely on people's dependence on the product. Everybody needs gasoline. Everybody needs electricity. Everybody needs food and water. Everybody needs toilet paper.




No, they don't.  Necessity is the mother of invention.  Toilet paper was invented to replace corn cobs.




People have been attempting to create cars that run on water and solar for decades now, and there is no substitute for food and water. And regardless, with inventions nowadays there are patents and copyrights. Simply because something is invented to replace an item is not any guarantee that it will be cheaper or more easily available to the public. If anything, patent law would indicate the opposite would happen. It also makes it likely that even IF an item is invented, it would take years and years before it would officially hit the market. So if illegal market schemes were to occur, your common everyday folk would be stuck in that situation for 20-30 years, or till whenever the patent wears off.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19121908 - 11/11/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:

That's what I thought about the Mars Rover. I get it, it's really cool and everything. But they already sent numerous ones of them to Mars already checking the chemistry to see if it's inhabitable, was it really worth investing the billions of dollars it took just to send another one?




:wtf:

How is that even a fucking question?  I don't think you have the slightest clue on why we're sending rovers to Mars, as you've made clear.


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 9 hours
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19121938 - 11/11/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
:wtf:

How is that even a fucking question?  I don't think you have the slightest clue on why we're sending rovers to Mars, as you've made clear.




I realize there's a POINT to it, but I can think of a thousand other crises going on in this country where that money could be used to going. It's more of a matter of priority than anything. Maybe one of the huge reasons we are facing budgetary problems now is because we drained so much of that money in sending the Mars Rover.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19121939 - 11/11/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:

That's what I thought about the Mars Rover. I get it, it's really cool and everything. But they already sent numerous ones of them to Mars already checking the chemistry to see if it's inhabitable, was it really worth investing the billions of dollars it took just to send another one?




:wtf:

How is that even a fucking question?  I don't think you have the slightest clue on why we're sending rovers to Mars, as you've made clear.



for once we agree. The NASA budget is 4/10 of one percent of the Federal Budget. We have much larger fiscal fish to fry.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19121946 - 11/11/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
:wtf:

How is that even a fucking question?  I don't think you have the slightest clue on why we're sending rovers to Mars, as you've made clear.




I realize there's a POINT to it, but I can think of a thousand other crises going on in this country where that money could be used to going. It's more of a matter of priority than anything. Maybe one of the huge reasons we are facing budgetary problems now is because we drained so much of that money in sending the Mars Rover.



the nasa budget is 4/10 of one percent of the federal budget. And thats ALL of nasa. Not just the rover. So before you make asinine statements about the rover causing our budget issues some thinking might be in order.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19121952 - 11/11/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
for once we agree. The NASA budget is 4/10 of one percent of the Federal Budget. We have much larger fiscal fish to fry.




Such as? I'm curious what these other fiscal fish are.


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Offlinedontknow
It's all in the reflex


Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 3,889
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19121957 - 11/11/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
:wtf:

How is that even a fucking question?  I don't think you have the slightest clue on why we're sending rovers to Mars, as you've made clear.




we're looking for moon rocks right?


--------------------
:box:

The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14

:tripping2: :shroomer:  :trippinballs: :shroomin:

“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.”
Albert Einstein


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19121960 - 11/11/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
for once we agree. The NASA budget is 4/10 of one percent of the Federal Budget. We have much larger fiscal fish to fry.




Such as? I'm curious what these other fiscal fish are.



The war on drugs, the defense budget, the welfare state, corporate subsidies, etc.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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