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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120099 - 11/11/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: Monopolies cannot exist in a free market. And if i as a business owner want to purchase another business that completes against me why do you have the right to tell me i cannot do that?
There is no law against telling you to do that. What is illegal, is buying out EVERY OTHER BUSINESS in the industry. But against buying a business, or buying numerous businesses, there is no law against that.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
#19120117 - 11/11/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: Monopolies cannot exist in a free market. And if i as a business owner want to purchase another business that completes against me why do you have the right to tell me i cannot do that?
There is no law against telling you to do that. What is illegal, is buying out EVERY OTHER BUSINESS in the industry. But against buying a business, or buying numerous businesses, there is no law against that.
I know there is no law. Your asserting it is wrong to purchase competition though.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
#19120127 - 11/11/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
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psyconaught said: can you provide a source that shows monsanto owns seeds that they did not modify at all? And your wrong. Monsanto does not own the idea of corn being fed to farm animals
My ex grew up on a dairy farm and is the one who told me about Monsanto owning the corn feed.
The Monsanto corporation owning seeds was on a PBS documentary that I saw a couple of years ago. Look it up on PBS, they have all of their documentaries online for free. They have a couple documentaries on Monsanto but I think I saw it around 2009 or 2010.
I can't remember if it was Food Inc. or Seeds of Death or The World According to Monsanto. I looked at a preview of all of them, and they don't look like any of these videos
This video does cover Monsanto's patent on seeds though. It also talks about how these grains are used for animal feed: http://video.pbs.org/video/2336662669/
im not gonna spend a day watching documentaries to possibly prove your point that is most likely wrong. The supreme court ruled that naturally occurring genes cannot be patented. I've lived and worked on farms as well. There are a myriad of locally produced corn feeds in my area.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120132 - 11/11/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: Monopolies cannot exist in a free market. And if i as a business owner want to purchase another business that completes against me why do you have the right to tell me i cannot do that?
There is no law against telling you to do that. What is illegal, is buying out EVERY OTHER BUSINESS in the industry. But against buying a business, or buying numerous businesses, there is no law against that.
I know there is no law. Your asserting it is wrong to purchase competition though.
I am not saying it is wrong, I am saying it is unlikely that cheap competition would likely exist, since large businesses would simply buy out all their other competitors. Or they would conspire together to all artificially inflate prices for higher profits, which also, is illegal and monitored by the URS.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120141 - 11/11/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: im not gonna spend a day watching documentaries to possibly prove your point that is most likely wrong. The supreme court ruled that naturally occurring genes cannot be patented. I've lived and worked on farms as well. There are a myriad of locally produced corn feeds in my area.
So they ruled against the farmer: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/13/183603368/supreme-court-rules-for-monsanto-in-case-against-farmer
Because the whole argument was that even formerly modified genes grow and reproduce naturally for generations and generations.
Then there was that farmer in Canada whose neighbor was using Monsanto seeds, and the wind blew onto his farm combining his seeds with Monsanto's, extending in a lengthy court battle.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: lighthouse09]
#19120150 - 11/11/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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lighthouse09 said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said: QFT
I used to think capitalism was good back when I was a kid, then I got a little older and started doing research for myself and I realized there are way better options, such as a Resource Based Economy
indeed i have been looking for system like thisits alot like the one i read recently inm a kim stanley robertson book "2312" (great writer!!) the main difference was he used cpu's to decide since they wouldnt be biased in their decisions because they can't.. but how could we even start to get a resource based economy party hmmm??
Well you wouldn't need a party, its not really political, it just economics, although I think k it should be coupled with a direct democracy where a very se sure system is set up and people can vote using the internet.
But starting a resource based economy, even on a small-scale, would be a much needed huge leap into the future.
How we get the ball rolling is by spreading the info about it to as many people as possible...
It's just hard because people can't seem to grasp the concept of not needing money to live because of how much value our culture puts on money.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
#19120158 - 11/11/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: Monopolies cannot exist in a free market. And if i as a business owner want to purchase another business that completes against me why do you have the right to tell me i cannot do that?
There is no law against telling you to do that. What is illegal, is buying out EVERY OTHER BUSINESS in the industry. But against buying a business, or buying numerous businesses, there is no law against that.
I know there is no law. Your asserting it is wrong to purchase competition though.
I am not saying it is wrong, I am saying it is unlikely that cheap competition would likely exist, since large businesses would simply buy out all their other competitors. Or they would conspire together to all artificially inflate prices for higher profits, which also, is illegal and monitored by the URS.
what would happen if a product randomly became astronomically priced? You wouldn't buy it. So the companies would either have to lower the prices or someone would come along and create a competing product.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
#19120166 - 11/11/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: im not gonna spend a day watching documentaries to possibly prove your point that is most likely wrong. The supreme court ruled that naturally occurring genes cannot be patented. I've lived and worked on farms as well. There are a myriad of locally produced corn feeds in my area.
So they ruled against the farmer: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/13/183603368/supreme-court-rules-for-monsanto-in-case-against-farmer
Because the whole argument was that even formerly modified genes grow and reproduce naturally for generations and generations.
Then there was that farmer in Canada whose neighbor was using Monsanto seeds, and the wind blew onto his farm combining his seeds with Monsanto's, extending in a lengthy court battle.
those are besides the point. For what its worth i agree with you on those aspects. But your side stepping the fact that you claimed monsanto patents naturally occurring seeds, which they do not. I proved you wrong and now your changing the subject.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120168 - 11/11/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: what would happen if a product randomly became astronomically priced? You wouldn't buy it. So the companies would either have to lower the prices or someone would come along and create a competing product.
That's not true and depends completely on people's dependence on the product. Everybody needs gasoline. Everybody needs electricity. Everybody needs food and water. Everybody needs toilet paper.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120174 - 11/11/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: those are besides the point. For what its worth i agree with you on those aspects. But your side stepping the fact that you claimed monsanto patents naturally occurring seeds, which they do not. I proved you wrong and now your changing the subject.
Well, I saw the documentary a few years ago. So I could have seen that documentary back when Monsanto was attempting to patent conventionally-grown seeds, and the Supreme Court overruled it by now. I haven't kept up with the news regarding that.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19120177 - 11/11/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I hate driving through the country and seeing Monsanto signs all over the place by all the fields of plants, they're definitely trying to get a monopoly going, and they're doing pretty well at it.
I don't really have a huge problem with GMO's, sometimes they can be a good thing, but sometimes in animal testing they show horrible results, I think all GMO foods should be labeled as such, so people can easily make the decision for themselves whether or not they want to eat GMO foods.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,987
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G] 1
#19120184 - 11/11/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Then there was that farmer in Canada whose neighbor was using Monsanto seeds, and the wind blew onto his farm combining his seeds with Monsanto's, extending in a lengthy court battle.
Of course this is more bullshit. The court found that the farmer intentionally planted Monsanto seeds.
http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/site/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/38991/index.do
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qman
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: mindgnome]
#19120263 - 11/11/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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mindgnome said: This may be true though even the Liberals nowadays have a conservative point of view. So in this two party system the only two options I have are conservative or more conservative? I don't adhere to that message. I believe if we keep letting the corporations control things, our country will be struggling for a long time. Plus I'm not going to let some rich assholes brain wash me for their own benefit. If I saw these people in person I would go up to them and say "Go fuck yourself"
"I believe if we keep letting the corporations control things, our country will be struggling for a long time."
There is really nothing that can be done, it's a corrupt system.
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120359 - 11/11/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: you don't understand how capitalism creates technological innovation? 
You don't understand how government creates technological advances either?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains] 1
#19120392 - 11/11/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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The government is far less efficient at creating new technologies.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19120404 - 11/11/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: you don't understand how capitalism creates technological innovation? 
You don't understand how government creates technological advances either? 
can you give one me one example of how government does technological innovation better than the private sector?
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
#19120421 - 11/11/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Did I say it did it better?
Capitalism will only invest in research that it thinks will make it a profit. Government will invest in fundamental research to further our knowledge on a subject, even if it won't pay off immediately.
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19120469 - 11/11/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mush4Brains said: Did I say it did it better?
Capitalism will only invest in research that it thinks will make it a profit. Government will invest in fundamental research to further our knowledge on a subject, even if it won't pay off immediately.
No that is demonstrably false many government projects run over budget all the time and are notoriously inefficient.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#19120478 - 11/11/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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How is what you just said refuting anything I said whatsoever?
Do you think that private projects don't ever run over budget, though?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19120498 - 11/11/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Obviously, government research is necessary if we want to do crazy shit like put a man on the moon. There's no commercial interest in doing that, so it wouldn't happen without government funding.
The question, however, is whether we should do shit like put a man on the moon....Certainly, some technologies came out of that endeavor, but were those technologies enough to justify the cost? Further, should a government be choosing projects based on upholding a reputation among nations?
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