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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19119980 - 11/11/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lighthouse09 said:
yea capitalism and government together are a bad combo. I fail to see any good things that came out of this in recent years??


QFT

I used to think capitalism was good back when I was a kid, then I got a little older and started doing research for myself and I realized there are way better options, such as a Resource Based Economy


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Offlineqman
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: mindgnome]
    #19119987 - 11/11/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
These so called capitalists want less oversight for corporations. I am sorry to say but the Republican party and Tea party supporters have no idea what they are truly supporting, they only listen to what fox news and their cronies say and take it as the truth.




Who do you think supports/owns the Democratic party? The corporations. :cookiemonster:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19119989 - 11/11/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
subsidies are not competition. Subsidies create monopolies by creating barriers to entry. If you can't make money being a farmer then don't fucking be a farmer.




Monsanto is the one that is mainly responsible for that.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19119994 - 11/11/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

mjmihalov said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
so wouldn't it be better if there was less government power to be purchased?



:whathesaid:




What kind of regulatory oversight would you like to see minimized or get rid of altogether? The FDA? The IRS? The FBI? ICE? The NRA? Homeland Security? I'm just assuming you are talking mainly about federal power.



I would get rid of all those. And bring back a very few in some capacity, albeit a much small form. And yes mainly federal powers, power should be concentrated at the state level.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19119996 - 11/11/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
subsidies are not competition. Subsidies create monopolies by creating barriers to entry. If you can't make money being a farmer then don't fucking be a farmer.




Monsanto is the one that is mainly responsible for that.



Only if you focus on a few specific GMO crops. And thats an IP issue. Which i have mixed feelings on.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Amphibolos]
    #19120000 - 11/11/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What we are is not capitalism, it is corporatism. This is because the corporations have so many of their people in politics. A vast majority of Americans are completely unaware of this.


--------------------
"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: mindgnome]
    #19120001 - 11/11/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
These so called capitalists want less oversight for corporations. I am sorry to say but the Republican party and Tea party supporters have no idea what they are truly supporting, they only listen to what fox news and their cronies say and take it as the truth.




What are you an all-knowing being or something?

How can you know everything a whole party does and what they listen too and how they take what they hear..


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19120007 - 11/11/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
I would get rid of all those. And bring back a very few in some capacity, albeit a much small form. And yes mainly federal powers, power should be concentrated at the state level.




So you don't think that the quality and sanitary conditions of pharmaceuticals should be regulated? You don't think that the IRS should be monitoring for price-fixing or for other illegal market activities?


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: qman]
    #19120014 - 11/11/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This may be true though even the Liberals nowadays have a conservative point of view. So in this two party system the only two options I have are conservative or more conservative? I don't adhere to that message. I believe if we keep letting the corporations control things, our country will be struggling for a long time. Plus I'm not going to let some rich assholes brain wash me for their own benefit. If I saw these people in person I would go up to them and say "Go fuck yourself"


--------------------
"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19120024 - 11/11/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

FDA is necessary regarding the conditions of your food aswell. Would you eat a product that is only deemed safe by the company that produce it?


--------------------


"Homo sum ; humani nihil a me alienum puto"


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19120030 - 11/11/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
I would get rid of all those. And bring back a very few in some capacity, albeit a much small form. And yes mainly federal powers, power should be concentrated at the state level.




So you don't think that the quality and sanitary conditions of pharmaceuticals should be regulated? You don't think that the IRS should be monitoring for price-fixing or for other illegal market activities?



In regards to the FDA, is a limited capacity perhaps, but they have killed more people by keeping drugs off the market than saved lives. And for the IRS, in a free market sustained price fixing cartels simply wouldn't be possible. The economic incentive for alternative products and a loss of revenue is too strong.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19120032 - 11/11/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
subsidies are not competition. Subsidies create monopolies by creating barriers to entry. If you can't make money being a farmer then don't fucking be a farmer.




Monsanto is the one that is mainly responsible for that.



Only if you focus on a few specific GMO crops. And thats an IP issue. Which i have mixed feelings on.




That's not true, Monsanto has also copyrighted seeds from nature, so that any time somebody uses that same crop for farming, they owe royalties to Monsanto. I understand that's "capitalism," but how does anybody have the right to trademark seeds, something that comes from nature, something that they didn't invent or chemically engineer themselves?

They also exclusively own the corn feed which is sold as feed to cows and other animals, making it so expensive that it's virtually impossible for smaller-business dairy farmers or meat farmers to make a profit on.


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Registered: 11/29/12
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: mindgnome]
    #19120036 - 11/11/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
This may be true though even the Liberals nowadays have a conservative point of view. So in this two party system the only two options I have are conservative or more conservative? I don't adhere to that message. I believe if we keep letting the corporations control things, our country will be struggling for a long time. Plus I'm not going to let some rich assholes brain wash me for their own benefit. If I saw these people in person I would go up to them and say "Go fuck yourself"



A Resource Based Economy is a great way to do away with all that.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19120037 - 11/11/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
In regards to the FDA, is a limited capacity perhaps, but they have killed more people by keeping drugs off the market than saved lives. And for the IRS, in a free market sustained price fixing cartels simply wouldn't be possible. The economic incentive for alternative products and a loss of revenue is too strong.




I doubt that. In a free market economic society, it would mean that monopolies are legal. Which would result in large corporations simply buying out any of their competition.


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19120054 - 11/11/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The fact of the matter is there shouldn't be labels for anyone. Politics should be about electing people who obviously want to change things for the betterment of Americans and truly care about people. It is really hard for me to explain but there is no compassion in politics. It is a rat race and neither side is right, liberal or conservative. All they do is argue and nothing gets done. They aren't even that smart, they just want things to go their way so they get paid. The corporations fucking them in the ass on national television.


--------------------
"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


Edited by mindgnome (11/11/13 11:24 AM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19120063 - 11/11/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
subsidies are not competition. Subsidies create monopolies by creating barriers to entry. If you can't make money being a farmer then don't fucking be a farmer.




Monsanto is the one that is mainly responsible for that.



Only if you focus on a few specific GMO crops. And thats an IP issue. Which i have mixed feelings on.




That's not true, Monsanto has also copyrighted seeds from nature, so that any time somebody uses that same crop for farming, they owe royalties to Monsanto. I understand that's "capitalism," but how does anybody have the right to trademark seeds, something that comes from nature, something that they didn't invent or chemically engineer themselves?

They also exclusively own the corn feed which is sold as feed to cows and other animals, making it so expensive that it's virtually impossible for smaller-business dairy farmers or meat farmers to make a profit on.



can you provide a source that shows monsanto owns seeds that they did not modify at all? And your wrong. Monsanto does not own the idea of corn being fed to farm animals

in fact i now recall the supreme court ruling earlier this year that affirmed naturally occurring genes cannot be patented.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


Edited by psyconaught (11/11/13 11:31 AM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: Crystal G]
    #19120065 - 11/11/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
In regards to the FDA, is a limited capacity perhaps, but they have killed more people by keeping drugs off the market than saved lives. And for the IRS, in a free market sustained price fixing cartels simply wouldn't be possible. The economic incentive for alternative products and a loss of revenue is too strong.




I doubt that. In a free market economic society, it would mean that monopolies are legal. Which would result in large corporations simply buying out any of their competition.



Monopolies cannot exist in a free market. And if i as a business owner want to purchase another business that completes against me why do you have the right to tell me i cannot do that?


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Invisiblelighthouse09
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19120073 - 11/11/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mjmihalov said:
QFT

I used to think capitalism was good back when I was a kid, then I got a little older and started doing research for myself and I realized there are way better options, such as a Resource Based Economy



indeed i have been looking for system like thisits alot like the one i read recently inm a kim stanley robertson book "2312" (great writer!!) the main difference was he used cpu's to decide since they wouldnt be biased in their decisions because they can't..  but how could we even start to get a resource based economy party hmmm??


--------------------
<--This fuckin guy


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19120075 - 11/11/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lighthouse09 said:
Quote:

mjmihalov said:
QFT

I used to think capitalism was good back when I was a kid, then I got a little older and started doing research for myself and I realized there are way better options, such as a Resource Based Economy



indeed i have been looking for system like thisits alot like the one i read recently inm a kim stanley robertson book "2312" (great writer!!) the main difference was he used cpu's to decide since they wouldnt be biased in their decisions because they can't..  but how could we even start to get a resource based economy party hmmm??



communism is a start.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Capitalism benefits the masses more so than the wealthy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19120093 - 11/11/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
can you provide a source that shows monsanto owns seeds that they did not modify at all? And your wrong. Monsanto does not own the idea of corn being fed to farm animals




My ex grew up on a dairy farm and is the one who told me about Monsanto owning the corn feed.

The Monsanto corporation owning seeds was on a PBS documentary that I saw a couple of years ago. Look it up on PBS, they have all of their documentaries online for free. They have a couple documentaries on Monsanto but I think I saw it around 2009 or 2010.

I can't remember if it was Food Inc. or Seeds of Death or The World According to Monsanto. I looked at a preview of all of them, and they don't look like any of these videos

This video does cover Monsanto's patent on seeds though. It also talks about how these grains are used for animal feed: http://video.pbs.org/video/2336662669/


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