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rev0kadavur
Forager



Registered: 03/18/10
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Loc: Richmond & Beyond - California
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Trichocereus. . . . . ?
#19120004 - 11/11/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So I adopted a large cacti collection... i have been in the process of rehabilitating most of them... they have been extremely neglected, sitting in pots in a greenhouse where they have not been fed, re-potted and barely ever watered, for nearly 2 decades now... many have already perished, including all the peyote buttons ;(... there is a pretty good mix of things, but some are really hard to ID because they have lost a lot of their color/features and have gotten pretty woody. Started reviving them earlier this year, I have some new growth on some of the suspect Trichocereus... I am torn between peruvianus or bridgesii... or maybe even something else?
The older growth develops longer spines, but they are only on the older growth and have lost all their color... grey spines, grey areolas.... some of the newer growth shows amber coloration in the spines, with fuzzy white areolas. The newer growth is also beginning to show its skin colors, darker green, blue powder and this one is getting purple at the tip, I suspect because of the cold snap we had...
My guess is T. bridgesii.
I will Have some more pictures soon... Hoping to have shroomery help me ID this entire collection, once things start getting back to healthy.... so possibly this coming spring I will start a thread on this collection.
Quick picture I snapped, this is a pup, focused on the newer growth.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: rev0kadavur] 1
#19120012 - 11/11/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Myrtillocactus geometrizans.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: Tangich]
#19120067 - 11/11/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangich said: Myrtillocactus geometrizans.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Yes Blue Myrtle it is, it's good for grafting slow growers like lophophora for instance.
Not bad species if you want plants for root stock.
Beautiful cactus it seems to be anyway.
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sidvivius
south narvalo



Registered: 02/22/05
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Loc: south of France
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is it variegata ?
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: sidvivius]
#19120474 - 11/11/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd say that is due to the lack of nutrients and poor conditions they were in previously.
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rev0kadavur
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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: Tangich]
#19120880 - 11/11/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Poo.
Hoped I wouldn't hear myrtle cactus.. guess ill have a ton of grafting stock!
Well, at least I have my pedros and monstrose bridgesii.
Wanting peruvianus and some peyotes to complete my collection!
Does anyone know how to stimulate the monstrose mutation with myrtillocactus?
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: rev0kadavur]
#19120930 - 11/11/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You can graft monstrose cactus to blue myrtle..
But..
I have find out the growth speed with normal trichoceres monstrose cactus isn't so much faster as grafted than cacti with own roots.
Only slow growing tricho I have find out is cresting monstrose bridgesii or variagate monstrose.
I would still keep them as they are bu if you want, you can take a "penis" from monstrose, cut if half by leaving aeroles to both sections, then graft both to own stock. Then you have two grafted monstrose bridgesii from one offshoot. They grow little bit different as grafted but as I said, growth speed of regular monstrose trichocereus is relatively fast enough to let it grow with own roots.
Blue myrtle are good cactus to graft peyote or other lophophora, then you surely see fast growth of scion but anyway, grafted cactus never grow same appearance than cactus with own roots. Peyote are just plump up water balloons as grafted but if it doesn't bother you, you can get benefit growing grafted plants cause stock tolerate way more watering than original lophophora.
With monstrose trichocereus, I have grafted one, then degrafted and later on find out it's not so big benefit to graft TBM:s to any stock, they are relatively fast growing plants anyway.
These are anyway your plants, you can propagate them faster as grafted assuming you have 0% failures with grafting.
But what kind of monstrose plants you talking 'bout?
Edited by intelligentlife (11/11/13 02:39 PM)
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rev0kadavur
Forager



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Actually I meant to stimulate a monstrose mutation in the myrtillocactus itself.. No grafting of the san pedros or bridgesii, that's pointless... they seem to grow much faster than myrtle. I would like a boob myrtle to go with my penis trich.  I have a lot of myrtles if the IDs were correct. Have been reading about the crest and monstrose mutations. Was curious if anyone has personally tested techniques to trigger the cactus to mutate.
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GoOnThen
Stranger


Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 1,046
Loc: Australia
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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: rev0kadavur]
#19124482 - 11/12/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I lot of people believe different things are responsible for mutations in cacti but from what I have seen recently in Trich seeds it is definitely genetic.
Cheers Got
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Trichocereus. . . . . ? [Re: GoOnThen]
#19124829 - 11/12/13 03:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh sorry I understand you wrong first..
No you cannot change growth appearance of blue myrtle easily.. Maybe there are some chemicals, infections and bugs change your plant growth but TBM clones are simply genetic, not caused by purpose as there are said above.
I have read over fertilizing or certain insects eating cactus can lead in rare cases extreme offshooting and therefor change appearance of cactus. Also some chemical can change permanently plant genetics but does they change appearance is not so easy to say.
If you success to grow chimera from blue myrtle then you can get monstrose form. But cactus chimera cannot be achieved by purpopse, they occur in very rare cases when grafting a cactus and it can somehow mix two DNA to scion.
Afaik, all grafting cause genetic mutation but usually not so massive what cause change of appearance. But I have seen actually TBM plants as grafted starts to grow normal t. bridgesii form
In theory when you just graft cacti above cacti and continue it, also you have to change your scion to different stocks and so on, maybe there can happens chimera or genetic mutation caused by grafting but it's rare and you cannot plan these.
Sometimes cactus like many other plants can start suddenly cresting without any good "reason" for it and sometimes crests can turn back to regular columns. Also blue myrtle can suddenly grow cresting growth tip but what causes it I think no one does not know it for sure.
Cresting happens in most plants around world. Pine tree can turn cresting as well as big cactus in desert. Best way to get mutations is simply to sow thousands of seeds and then grow and see are there genetic variations.
One guy who have nursery said to me when I asked cresting loph that when he sow 1000+ seeds, there are usually one or two cresting seedlings but he doesn't care them and they will rot easily when he care of most peyote he sell as ornaments. But anyway your chances to get cacti starts grow cresting/monstrose/variagate are biggest when you have lots of seeds to sow. Most people for example got their variagate cacti by sowings lots of seeds and I have read about increasing chance of get variage cacti are simply using variegate mother/father plant. I am not sure does it transfer trough seeds but I remember I have read somewhere these all forms of genetic mutations are possible to transfer forwards when pollinating cresting/monstrose/variagate plants to each other. Atleast this should increase change to get mutated cacti but it doesn't mean all cacti are mutated even father/mother cactus are mutated.
Only way to get already living blue myrtle to different appearance is possible chimera but making chimera isn't so easy and you need lots of good luck with that and still you cannot get your cactus appearance changed permanently.
Also some chemical caused mutation are possible but I am not sure are there available toxins what can cause DNA mutation for plant and then "turn" your original cactus to mutated one. Creating mutated cactus are in theory pretty "easy" but in practice it's hard to cause genetic mutation to cactus what change it's appearance. Only way I see better chances is using mother and father plant with genetic mutation and then pollinate them with each other and see what kind of seedling you got and pick mutated seedlings then cause possibility to get mutation genetics trough pollen to seeds are there anyway and probably it's way more easier to even try chance adult growth appearance by grafting or with chemicals what could lead to mutation or chimera. Chimera possibility is still very rare and best way to get mutated plant(s) are easier way to obtain first thousands of seeds and sow lots and lots of seeds and see do you have luck to get mutated, variegate or cresting cactus from seed. It's way more plausible than trying to change cactus appearance what is already growing as normal.
If you still want to try, you can chop blue myrtle and try graft it many times and see what happens.. If you re really lucky you got chimera but like I said, odds are very poor to get chimera what keeps on grow as chimera but there is tiny chance to cause chimera mutation with grafting.
Cactus chimera can have new genetic pollen and in best case two different flowers or completely new pollen what you can use to produce seeds and see are seeds even viable or not.. In theory is sound easy, but in practice there is possibility you can continue work ten years without success to get chimera anyway.. More possibilities to get mutation is simply sow as much seeds as you can obtain and see what you got.
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