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OfflineSilverwolf
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British Indigenous
    #1911984 - 09/13/03 04:27 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Hi guys! The internet's a strange beast isn't it ?it's still a journey of discovery for me "on the web".However I digress,I believe the subject is "hunting".Having successfully found psilocybe semilanceata (I looked it up!!) all over mainland Britain (although not Scotland,apologies if you are!) my attention this year is turning to locating wild cynacens and "migrating" some amanitas.I have a sad story about the familiar muscal some may like to hear so please consider this post an initial introduction.If anyone knows of some useful and specific works on the uses,both traditional and otherwise,of both the muscaria and pantherina,please let me know,"for I have tales of dragons"....:mushroom2: 


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/14/03 05:13 PM)

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OfflineLizard King
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1912180 - 09/13/03 08:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Welcome to the shroomery :wink: And yes indeed, the internet is a strange wonderful thing, bringing people from around the globe together.


I'd love a good amanita story, they are usually very interesting.

With some research and a bit of luck, you should be able to locate some Ps. cyanescens over there in yankee country.




LK,


--------------------

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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Lizard King]
    #1912253 - 09/13/03 10:00 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

yeaha, tell us, ill rub the sticks for the conflagration. :grin:

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1914818 - 09/14/03 05:28 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Have a feeling I might "dig-ress" myself in so far I won't be able to get out.NO my right wing fiend I was BORN in Britain,I live in Britain and ,so far, all my mushroom and fungi experiences have taken place here ("..and good for you" Tm) ..he..he..!It's too damn HOT though guys we're forecast 27c in London for today..AND I'm supposed to be picking in Wales in 17 days time -or so-..(a little localised precipitation would be nice so keep banging those rocks,or rubbing those sticks, please!)   


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/14/03 05:30 AM)

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OfflineSorceroom
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1914821 - 09/14/03 05:33 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

It's annoying aint it :frown: They keep saying the weather will get worse (better), but it never does!


--------------------
You are entering the realm of imagination and dreams, which is not subject to time and space...

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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Sorceroom]
    #1914941 - 09/14/03 08:32 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

in poland they call the stones that make sparks when you bang them together "krzemien," and someone i remember equated them with silicon. what are those stones made out of?

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OfflineEnglander
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1914961 - 09/14/03 08:43 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

quartz? flint?

i aint no geologist!

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Englander]
    #1916026 - 09/14/03 04:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Oooooh Tampa Bay That's Seminole Country..and "Tapenades"?(I Will soon only be seen for clods of earth being ejected at ground level).there are some nice amanita pics in the gallery.I once shot a few pics for our local study center and then presented them on a map giving the location of each cluster on our "common",this leads me on to -some- of the main point of this sutra.Muscarine or muscal (?) is produced in the chemical factory formed by the relationship (known as "mycorrhizal") of nutrients and water from the hyphae and plant sugars from the tree (s) right? BEWARE fungi will grow on root systems no longer being fed by sufficient -if any- foliage,the resulting brew may be deadly due to lack of combustion, not enough sugar (or was it the pollution impaction from a difficult site?:discuss)!As a result of an orchid protection programme on our afforementioned "common" the Birches which have been feeding the largest permanent cluster were cut down this year,therefore when fruiting bodies appear I am thinking of a "fresh spore" transplant to a more secluded,less vandal prone and less polluted site.I'm a newbee cultivation wise so any tips etc. will be greatly appreciated.I've seen amanitas symbiote with birch,spruce (have you? Ed),oak and even (I swear) beech here in Britain.Interestingly the oak and beech varieties were smooth skinned (none of the "traditional" white spots).Hey YEAH I thought you guys -through the "sipapu"- only got the yellow fellas "gemmata"?Obviously this is NOT the case-if the gallery is to be believed.I guess the tone of this message is something of a warning,make sure you and the wandering merchant are on good terms my friends,make sure.    :confused:

  :alert:(This is a subsequent edit) Two corrections need to be made concerning the post above;
1.Muscarine IS NOT the psychoactive chemical component in amanita muscaria ,it may in certain circumstances (?) be the deadly one (see following page (s ?)).The active chemical is muscimol.
2.Also I mentioned that I thought gemmata was the only psychoactive amanita in the States.Infact I couldn't find the picture I "knew" was there in either of the sources I'm currently using.Amanita muscaria var.formosa is the sub-species to which I was referring.Although from viewing the gallery and other posts it is evident that A.muscaria is abundant over there.
Found A.m symbiotic with any unusual host trees guys?I'd love to hear about it!This also raises this issue of the pantherina whose useage by Siberian Shaman I know I've seen reference to,any comments?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/19/03 04:14 AM)

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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1916415 - 09/14/03 07:29 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

i believe the mycorhizal relationship between fungi and plants primarily involves nutrients such as nitrates and others, not complex polysaccharides. am i wrong or am i right?

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1917438 - 09/15/03 04:32 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Liberty caps are also very common in Scotland. Just because you found none there does not mean there are not any there. believe me when i say they are there.

mj

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1917495 - 09/15/03 05:51 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Again my apologies to our friends north of the border,I have NO DOUBT that the harvest of liberty caps is abundant in "Scocia" I have just never picked there.
"Mycorrhizal:Mycorrhizae are the basis for a close beneficial relationship between the tree and the fungus,in which the tree gives the fungus sugars,while the fungus provides water and nutrients.A mycorrhizal relationship is formed when the hyphae of fungi species,including some agarics and most boletes,penetrate roots of a suitable,living,host tree." (nb -see above- a tree may be alive without displaying foliage ed) from "Mushrooms" by Thomas Laessoe published by Dorling Kindersley.Also guys I don't think natural amphetamines like muscarine (?) would occur without them. I WAS going to ask some questions about indigenous (British) psilocybes.Actually reading the literature has brought to my attention a number of species that I have never encountered -at least in the wild or,knowingly,anywhere else-.Cyanacens I was aware of,however;squamosa,merdaria,caerulipes,coprophilia and a number of others would appear to be possible British residents.I will view the gallery again,thanks Mushroom John for the cyanacens pickies,for photos of these.May I also ask that if you have any picks of same you upload those we establish here ARE U.K indigenous?Thank you.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/15/03 06:03 AM)

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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1918791 - 09/15/03 04:28 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

coprophila are not active.
thanks for the information. what kind of sugars do the fungi recieve?

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1919048 - 09/15/03 05:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Lonewolf if you are into psilocybes which have been recorded in England you might want to add to your list Psilocybe percevalii, which is extremely scarce but recorded a few times (recently) on woodchips. Probably a non-native species in the process of naturalizing. I don't think it's active - it looks more like a species of fleshy Stropharia.
Also I think the word is still out on whether the strain of UK cyanescens that has spread so dramatically in recent decades (perhaps largely clonally) is descended from the native P. cyanescens (which may of course itself been an early invading non-native), or is actually a more recent introduction from the Pacific Northwest. So the question of whether you should regard these mushrooms as 'indigenous' remains.

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #1919410 - 09/15/03 07:30 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

P. cyanescens was ddiscovered first in England in Kew Gardens in Surrey in the middle 1940s and named psilocybe cyanescens. It is in the PNW and most of Europe and Russia and even in China. It is indegenous to the northern hemisphere. It has nothing to do with coming to the PNW or going to the UK. IT was all over those parts of the globe.

Mj

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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1919420 - 09/15/03 07:34 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

MagmaManiac, the sugars received by the fungus in a mycorrhizal relationship are dependent on the plant host. Different plants produce different sugars through photosynthesis. The plant provides some of the sugars is produces to the fungus in return for various nutrients the fungus absorbs from the earth - mostly water and things like nitrates and phosphates.

Happy mushrooming!


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: ToxicMan]
    #1919534 - 09/15/03 08:12 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

MJ, you must know that there are clear differences between the mushroom populations referred to as "Psilocybe cyanescens" in Europe and the Pacific Northwest. There are glaring microscopic distinctions.

I happen to work in Kew Gardens, Surrey, and the mycologists here are in agreement that the issue of whether the type specimen of P. cyanescens collected in these gardens in 1946 represents the same strain or species of P. cyanescens in the PNW is still very much open. Furthermore, many think a much more aggressive strain has colonized England from elsewhere recently.

Many of our striking woodchip mushroom species have been shown to have invaded recently from overseas populations, e.g. Stropharia aurantiaca & Clathrus archeri.

Anyway, if this species was first described in 1946, how can you be be so certain about its natural distribution before modern times?

You say "It has nothing to do with coming to the PNW or going to the UK"

To reach this conclusion definitively you would need to conduct a phylogenetic study of population dynamics in this species. Have you?? There is already much evidence to suggest that the large bulk of P. cyanescens colonies in the UK are clonal and this clone might have relatively recent origins from overseas.

I don't mean to step on your toes, I am just presenting the view of the English mycological community about this species, of which you might not have been aware. I am however a little surprised that you would make such solid conclusions about the population structure of this species based only on the fact that (a) it is now very widespread and (b) it was first described in England. There is a lot more to it than that.

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #1920057 - 09/15/03 10:37 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

WEl;l there are over foive hundred reported locations for P. cyanescens in Germany. They are the same as those found in the PNW.

The Collections gathered by Roy Watling in the royal botanical Gardens in Edinburgh are the same P. cyanescens as found in the PNW. I know because I picked them there.

As for more and more crops showing up in newer places only is a rwsult of a partiicular woodchip or hardwood mulch which the spores are attracted to and the repiling of mulch piles which eventually go to landscapers spread the mulch into nerwer areas thus spreading the shrooms into lareger populartions.

I really do not need to explain my reasons for knowning so and that is allt here is to that.

I have watched their growth for thirty years throughout Europe, northern Africa, the UK and in the PNW and other regions. including BC, Canada and in Holland where they wetre named Hyphomolma cyanescens. Each species has certain characteristics which are variable but they are still the same mushroom.

Have a shroomy day.

mj

I need not further elanborate about those collections. the only real confusion was her in the midle 1970s when the PNW's leading mycologist Daniel Stunztrzz identified numerous collections of P. stuntzii as P. cyanescens, although the mushrooms had not yet been identified and named as P. cyanescens.

Stijve copnducted private analysis and some taxonomy on collections from France and germany and also agreed they were the same mushroom form the PNW. Only Kreigelsteiner tried to assume that P. bohemica, P. cyanecens, P. serbica and p. maire were actually all one mushroom but they are not.

The Waskefield mushrooms is the same P. cyanescens in the usa.

By the way, I have fotographs by Arthur Brack and ALbert Hofmann of both in vitro grown collections of P. caerulescens and P. cubensis which also have upturned wavy caps similar to those of P. cyanescens. I have picked them in Scotland and they sure as hell are macroscopically exactrly like the P. cyanescens I have been collecting for thirty years.


mj
And while they were discovered and botanically named from Kew Gardens in Surrey int he middle forties, does not mean they are currently growing there.

WE have had areas in Seattle where some shrooms grew for ten years in a particular spot due to the annual replanting of woodchips and bark-mulch. at one time P. stuntzii's grew in about 70 percent of all new lawns and almost all alderwood mulchbeds had yearly crops of P. cyansescens and P. baeocystis. Now with the end of clear-cuts int his region and with the disappearance of pasturelands being replaced with Boing one story non-poluting office buildings, many patches are now gone with some lawns producing for two to three years until the nutrients are gone formt he soils and from the woodchip garden beds. and the disappearance of alder as a primary mulch in gardens and the replaced ment of cedar which does not support the growth of P. cyanescens or the red rif shag mulch used in the last five years.

mj

I havew a graph somewhere in my files of P. cyanescens locations in Germany created by Gartz and two other mycologists and is as yet unpublished. I have been looking for it for months. But then I have five filing cabinets with four drawers of papers in each cabinet and thousands of pages and do not have time to go diging for petty papers.

I wanted to post a chang and mills paper for blue meanie but he insisted I mail one to him. Since I could not find my copy in my files on Australia I went tot he U of W and paid 15 cents a papge, then when i wanted to scan it he insisted i mail it to him instead. so I then had to go to a regular copy shop here for ten cents a copy and then three dollars to mail it to him. . Now some speech narator is talking to me from my fucking computer. I do not have time to explain this shit.

goodbye

Edited by mjshroomer (09/15/03 10:48 PM)

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OfflinePaid
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1920549 - 09/16/03 02:36 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Kew is a funny place to call anything showing up there native, as
so much plant and soil matter has been imported from all over the globe to that one spot.
I think its quite likely that there are many fungus species using
that site as a steping stone into england, same with any botanical
garden.

Also you are right mj, wood chip mulch is much more common, and
I know of at least 2 council wood chip piles that  have been
inoculated with PNW P. cyan spawn. These piles are both in the
50 ton range, and are spread about all over there local areas.
So this could be one reason of the sudden increase of P. cyan :wink:

In fact i may know of 3 piles now.


--------------------


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Paid]
    #1920617 - 09/16/03 03:27 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Lovely,lovely but where oh sage WHERE?What is the difference between this and the -pre-shroomably- inferior varities of woodchip?Having NEVER picked (blue mushrooms sold too me in a bag as "Mexican" whilst I was a student at University in the mid-eighties , were "we" speculated at the time, probably p.cyanacens) cyanacens I would like some advice on where to look.Do they like relatively shady sites or do they prefer more direct sunlight?What types of softwoods do they prefer as a growth medium?Some grow on pasture,how much moisture content and what types of animal dung are prefered?Also I have no idea of doseage.YES the first time I heard a latin name for them I was told they were "Hyphaloma".Regarding the amanita (s ?);thanks for the sugars info,I "KNEW" this I just hadn't become properly cognisant of the fact.You see this sugar provision is an ESSENTIAL part of the process!Does anyone know how the resulting muscarine/ammonia package varies chemicaly as a result?Thanks guys back soon!    :eyemouth:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/16/03 04:13 AM)

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1920964 - 09/16/03 09:17 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

MJ

"As for more and more crops showing up in newer places only is a rwsult of a partiicular woodchip or hardwood mulch which the spores are attracted to and the repiling of mulch piles which eventually go to landscapers spread the mulch into nerwer areas thus spreading the shrooms into lareger populartions."

What you say only supports my view. This mushroom has spread around a lot, due to the increasing popularity of woodchip mulch. Nothing new there - the woodchip bed phenomenon has been thoroughly documented in the past few years in various mycological journals. The mulch in gardens like Kew is indeed a stepping stone for exotic species. But in the case of P. cyanescens, where has it spread from and where to? You say nothing about that.

"The Collections gathered by Roy Watling in the royal botanical Gardens in Edinburgh are the same P. cyanescens as found in the PNW. I know because I picked them there."

So where is your evidence that the Edinburgh colony did not originate in the PNW, then? And when you say "the same P. cyanescens", you mean "morphologically identical P. cyanescens" or something to that effect. Much more important are genetic differences that will explain the biogeography of this species. This is 2003, molecular techniques in agaricology have arrived, and you can't just look at a mushroom's morphology and make a statement like "these are the exact same mushrooms as X or Y" - haven't you ever heard of cryptic species?? Morphological mushroom taxonomists are a dying breed.

I am, however, not thinking along the lines that there are several species called P. cyanescens. I am just trying to point out that those you have picked over the last 30 years in the UK may well have originated from elsewhere, and hence not 'indigenous'.

"The Waskefield mushrooms is the same P. cyanescens in the usa."

Ditto what I said above. In any case, there are important anatomical differences too. E.g. the specimens in the Wakefield type collection have no/very scarce cystidia on gill faces, whereas PNW cyanescens have abundant gill cystidia.

"And while they were discovered and botanically named from Kew Gardens in Surrey int he middle forties, does not mean they are currently growing there."

Oh no? hehehehe Have you been here recently? (don't think about it people, the Kew constabulary are watching you)

In conclusion, I stand by everything I said, and you really can't cite old morphological papers as an argument. What I am suggesting cannot be properly addressed by looking at microscopic features. Despite all you have said, the distinct possibility remains that P. cyanescens, or the vast majority of its colonies in the UK, are not indigenous.

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1920984 - 09/16/03 09:24 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Inthe 1970s my wife and I bought canned frozen hallucionogenic mushrooms supposedly from Mexico. We ate them and they were a little different thana half gram i ate in 1968 which really diod not do much of anything. The can shrooms frozen in K ration cans and sealed were actually agaricus bisporus and lace with LSD and PCP to hide the effects of acid. They are still sold around the USA oin some regions. Similar shrooms have shown up over the years in Europe and Germany made with frozen shitakes from asisa and canned and ssold as Mexican magic mushrooms. that was wahat stemmed my first interest in finding magic mushrooms..

Here int he PNW we had two large muclch piles of tons of alder stacked out near auburn-kent, washington. there was mycelia of both P. cyanescens and P. stuntzii growing rapidulty throughout the stack. when the stack would gt lowered in sizwe from lawnservice trucks loading up to take to various landscapping companies, the logging industry would replendish the pile with new chips and /opr bark fromthe woods and the mycelia kept spreading through the piles and then to0 the various buildings int he cities.

This occured between 1972 and 1986. Int he early 19990-s, clear-cuts became practrically illegal due to environmentalist and spotted fucking owls.

Now there are few and far between and where as inthe 1970s and 1980s, P. cyanescens was comoon mostly in aldewrwood steer-co woodchips and sawdust, today their main habitat is primaroily branches of alder.

and very scattered since many large public places now cut their own trees to make for new mucclch and the closure of many clearcuts has caused a shortage of large crops. although I still know a few lage fruiting sites. when i moved to hawaii in 1986 I had over 100 patches odf shrooms within the city of downtown Seattle.

If you do live here you can purchase a $35.00 permit to go to three locations from warehauser logging sites to collect edibles. and sometimes massive pelliculosa patches hich appear form 2 to five years after logs are logged out and the burn occurs.

Lawns of stuntzii's still appear, mainly from spores inthe squares of sod. but at one time over 80% or more of aevery new lawn hgad blue trringers in them.
A few years ago a report fom England told of a horse race track which was laid over with wood chips and allegedly produced hundreds of thousands of P. cyanescens. Unfortunately no one published any photos of this tratk but the mycologists involved in writing about it and talking to newsmaen in England confirmed they were P. cyanescens. still a picture would havve been fun..

mj

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OfflineMagmaManiac
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1922547 - 09/16/03 05:56 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

thanks toxic.

mmmm, keep takling :smile: 

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1924378 - 09/17/03 05:03 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I'm glad you guys are still talking cyanacens,(although I'm still none the wiser as to where to actually FIND any),it means you didn't spot what would would appear to be a glaring error on my part!I've got to,as we say over here, "hold my hand up for this one" , and make a point of it especially, because part of the reason for this thread was to explore the nature of the psychedelic amanita (s ?) and to help make their usage SAFER for fellow travellers.
You see I've made,perhaps understandably,a strange assumption.Knowing (some) of the methods of consumption by which the "hallucinogens" in the fungi ,that for the sake of this debate we shall call "fly agaric", has be introduced into the bloodstream (drinking human and animal urine for example),AND it's latin name "amanita",I mistakenly supposed that "ammonia" was necessarily a major component of it's chemical profile ALONG WITH muscarine.Which explains why I have always wanted to spell amanita with two "m"s.Sorry all you bio-chemists I'm a "failed" political philosopher not a "scientist".HOWEVER I think I have picked up some understanding of the traditional preperation/"strorage" of this fascinating fungi,although before I elaborate some further empiricism IS neccessary.
"..,the Fly Agaric is the most familiar toadstool.It is also known to CONTAIN TWO POISONS (capitals mine ed.).One,muscimol,is mildly (uh huh -also mine ed.-) hallucinogenic,and this species has been used as an intoxicant.The other,muscarine,is sweat-inducing,leading to nausea,vomiting and possibly coma." from "Field Guide to the Mushrooms and Toadstools of Britain and Europe" published by Larousse.So my logostical friends we may NOW assume that lack of sugar provission (or should I now say "polysacchrides"?) owing to insufficient, or complete LACK,of foliage on the "host" tree fails to produce sufficient muscimol ,instead producing too much muscarine?!The "traditional methods" I mentioned therefore concern the conversion of the dangerous muscarine into muscimol!I will elaborate on these In my next post and start to explore some of the "religious" -in "theory and practice" ,as it were- aspects of their usage.
(Also guys any ideas for my "fresh spore transplant" yet please?)


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/17/03 05:16 AM)

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OfflineSin Bad
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #1924510 - 09/17/03 07:33 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Could somebody list, (or point me to a list) of all the psilocybin containing mushrooms that have been found/are currently found in Britain please.

Lonewolf? MJ??

thanks

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Sin Bad]
    #1924559 - 09/17/03 08:33 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Look in the fac. and ibotenic acid and muscimole are the two main constituents of Amanita muscaria which means fleigenpilze or fly killer in Germany. I doubot if it has anything to do with ammonia.

mj

here is a list of 187 species of psilocybian mushrooms and a country by country list of specie scan be found at my m site through a linbk on my indes page tot he distributoion worldwide of all species.

mj

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1925346 - 09/17/03 02:03 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Lonewolf
You say you are none the wiser as to where to find Ps. cyanescens in the UK - just concentrate harder :smile:

As for fly agarics - I'm really not sure exactly what you are trying to find out.

Are you asking something like, "does the health/stage of development of the host plant affect metabolite concentrations in the fly agaric mushrooms with which it is partnered?"

I don't know the answer to this.  It seems reasonable to expect a relationship.  But I think a tree that persistently lacks foliage would be unlikely to support much fruiting of mycorrhizal mushrooms.  It would partially depend on mycelial capacity for long term storage of photosynthates.  I am not aware of any empirical study of the effects of host tree condition on chemical synthesis in associated mushrooms.  So I cannot think of any justification for the a priori assumptions you are making in the case of the active fly agaric compounds. I may be overlooking published research.

As for transferring fresh spores, you may succeed in inoculating new trees, but it is only likely to work if you attempt this with seedlings (of the right species).  Older trees are likely to already have a fully colonized root system and so a newly introduced fungus will not be able to establish itself.

I hope this info is of use

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #1925570 - 09/17/03 03:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

You might think so Pluteus however I have had first hand experience ,not simply a priori assumptions, which STRONGLY suggest otherwise.I have just walked in the door having visited whilst buying "groceries" (Like some  U.S beers some Americanisms are underated),the site of the struggle with which ,to a certain extent, this thread is concerned.I can still find no evidence of a suitable host tree ,the nearest root system to this small grassy bank would seem to come from a very "average" sized ,and unsuitable, mixed hedge.Furthermore my source of information about the orchid conservation programme from the local study center was clear in his assertion that fruiting bodies would appear on the roots ,and around the stumps of ..my beautiful birches ..sob -yes I can call them mine as they "belong" to all us "commoners" (technically)-.Infact the specimins found on the grassy bank were huge ,and a largish cluster, HOWEVER these were "'ard buggers" if ever there were any.Their prepared presentation was hard,dark red with white cap spots still VERY visible,they were also almost DEADLY my friend;and that's basically ALL,there was very little hallucinogenic activity associated with the experience,apart from "hello,I'm dying!".
The amanitas I wish to transport will come from the orchid conservation area,are you saying that host trees will already be colonised even if they show no activity?One possible site,secluded,relatively unpolluted etc.,did have,a decade ago,a nice little "platoon" of "red caps",however last year there were none whilst activity in other areas was at a reasonably high level.
Also yeah I do take the point about paying attention to Mj,I was going to remark about p.cyanacen's obvious preference for alder.Does this mean we need to look along river banks etc.where this "tree of the vernal equinox" (at least it is in these isles,it is also one of the oldest post ice-age residents I'll have you know) is found ?I've seen reference to both softwood and hardwood chippings,which NATURALLY OCCURING chippings -apart from the alder- does p.cyanacens prefer?  :heartpump: 


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/18/03 05:51 PM)

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1925578 - 09/17/03 03:14 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

P.S This "bank cluster" is not a "one off",they've appeared there year after year.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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OfflineSin Bad
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1927902 - 09/18/03 03:36 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

MJ - cheers for the advice, but I think there is something wrong with your website; when I clicked on the "worldwide distribution of species" link - I got sent to an Italian site, (nothing to do with mushrooms) Please fix it soon as I am dying to read this page!

Sinbad

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Sin Bad]
    #1928301 - 09/18/03 06:53 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

WEll the article is in the Italian journal Anali Civ. Di. Mus. Rovereto, Italia vol 14_189-290. Year 2000 (1998).

That is Giorgio sam,orini;'s Journal wher ei he is editor. WEmt to the Italian site and spent 20 mnutes trying to find the article as my Italian only goes to reading not writing.
Here is the correct URL for the page.

[url]=http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/UploadDocs/104_art09-Guzman%20&%20C.pdf[url]

Okay, I fixed the link and now it works.

It was a bitch finding it at the Italian site but it is an Italian journal it appeared inmaking iit hard for most of the world toi see the publication or the information.

There are about ten shrooms in there placed by Guzman against my swishes which really are not psychoactive or are species inlocations where they di no t really gorow, primarily the out odf state of Oregon P. azurescens placed in this paper by guzman from Paul Stamets book Psilocybine Mushrooms of the wiorld. They include of course the Panaaeolina foenisecii, P. sphinctrinus, and a few others.

mj Yo do not need to do any of the info below to get ther unless theya gaiun change the addy.

Thanks for bringting this to my attention.

mj ]http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/UploadDocs/104_art09-Guzman%20&%20C.pdf[/url]

mjshroomer

Okay go to this site here






Attenzione!
Pagina non trovata

Attention!
Page not found




try: http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.

Then look on the left of the page for the words

PUBBLICAZIONI:
ANNALI
ELEUSIS
ECO NEWS
MONOGRAFIE

And then click on the word:

Ananli:


Then on the left side of the page click on the word:
Anali 14/1998.

Then on the bottom half of the paper is a loink which says the following:

Annali 14/1998 - art09-Guzman&C.pdf| DOWNLOAD

That opens the friggin page. I went there to the page and tried to p open it. I have to cute FTP the page and see if the regular link from my site wirks. If not then use the following instructions above.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (09/18/03 07:05 AM)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1928310 - 09/18/03 07:08 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Thry this one more time. It works from my site becasue I just cute ftp'ed it there but it does not seem to work here when i post the url:

mj



http://www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/UploadDocs/104_art09-Guzman%20&%20C.pdf

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1929605 - 09/18/03 03:36 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Since your here Mj yeah I did go to the FAQs about amanitas.There's alot of stuff there and I'm not,as you might have gathered,a chemist,however it's clearly worth assimilating some of it.I'll get back to everyone on the subject once I've established,from you or anyone else,if psilocybe squamosa is a U.K resident,is it?  :nut:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/18/03 04:09 PM)

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OfflineSin Bad
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1931545 - 09/19/03 03:07 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Cheers MJ,

I have printed off that beast of an article and look forward to digesting tonight.

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Sin Bad]
    #1931595 - 09/19/03 04:22 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

n.b.My posts on this thread are subject to revision and therefore subsequent editing.However I will strive to avoid being disingenuous.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1931693 - 09/19/03 06:27 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

psilocybe squamosa is not an active species.

mj


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1931978 - 09/19/03 09:42 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Bugger!
Pluteus are you still around mate?I've identified most of the trees and bushes within any conceivably viable distance for root association with my "'ard bugger" troop of amanitas.These are as follows;ash,plane,crab apple,sycamore,lime,a thorny bush -unidentified but with large thorns and the main constituent of this small "scruffy" hedge- and one specimen of another unidentified bush (not tree).To me the only concievable host would be the plane .You're probably aware of the famous "London Plane",if your not one of your collegues at Kew will surely be.This less numerous deciduous tree might just be the answer,there was NOTHING else around.Comments anyone?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (09/19/03 09:49 AM)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1932049 - 09/19/03 10:22 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Amanita's are generally found in the vincinity of birch or pine, birch signifi=ying the Tree of life.

, Maybe some mixed conifers but ther eeocould be such mulches in the top soils.

Here in america lawns are often covered with mulch and some times mulched lawn areas are re sodded years later with a lawn over a mulched are, thuys we have morels here in the city which are oftren associated with apple trees,

mj

Whether youu are looking for bushes is not the corrctr way to find certin shrooms. it is the muclchews and thetypes ofwood used in the mulch. Knowing the tree habitats help in finding the shrooms Yes P. cyanescens is often associated with rhoderdendrons, verinas, strawberry plants and ivy. the latter often overgrows the muclch in ttwo to three years killing off all nutrients and spores and leaving no room for any shrooms to regrwo. GHere we hav a alwn shroom which sometimes will grow all yearr long depending on if we get snow or freeze, Last March and April we had a one day snow fall in both of those months but none all winter,.

But then fertilizers and perpetual lawn care also are equally needed for a good lawn of P. stuntzii and p. fimetaria which we call blue ringers.

And ther are times when a lwn can produce 20 pounds and up. t he same with a garden or a park producing 20-50 ppounds of p. cyanescens ina single season. I have seen such gardens and i look int he gardens for the shrooms from house to house, stret to street and park to park. I know better than looking in oilder lawns which usualy have coprinus or merasmius oreades or agaricus and look in new lawns around restaurants, apratrment complexes condos, office buildings and nursing homes, ridde and park areas and many publisc places without having to go to t field and take a chance on a ticket or worst. But i also ask permission at some farms to go and look and fotograph. The same in the spring a t riding stables between Evrett to Tumwater and from the cascades to the Olympics.

mj

have a shroomy day.

Irt was Gartz and I who reported blue ringers have now traveld as far south to Eugen Oregon and now reports are coming in frm San francisco which is also a home to P. cyanescens but in the December to january season there while ours is CO tober to December.

mj

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OfflinePaid
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1932096 - 09/19/03 10:47 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Are you certain there is no coppiced birch in the headge?
Or that any could have been cut down in the last 2 or 3
years? Coppiced birches can be very small, but have exstensive
root systems.

Been a sad year for fly agrics, most of my patches are fruitless
this year :-( so far. And my dryed store is coming to an end.


--------------------


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Paid]
    #1933254 - 09/19/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

You're an August A.musc shroomer are you Paid ?What's your location? I've great faith that here in the South of England we will get a decent season.I've read -recently!- about August fruiting but have only observed it once at an oak/beech (?) site ,MANY years ago so please forgive my hazy memory.
If there ARE birches there I couldn't find them.There are however birches in the vicinty,but across the intersection of two roads AT LEAST twenty yards away.There may be some,by now many years past supporting a healthy tree, birch roots in the bank itself,or roots of any other suitable host.However I have examined the hedge closely more than once and can see NO evidence of coppicing.Note again that these are not health giving specimins their sugar supply obviously being much too compromised.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1933277 - 09/19/03 05:18 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote; "Coppiced birches can be very small"..What I'm trying to get at here is this.."If the host is TOO SMALL with insufficient foliage then the fungi they support will be TOO DANGEROUS!" I'd like some support for this one from a bio-chemist.Has anyone done the research?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1935185 - 09/20/03 10:27 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Lonewolf
I am not sure which of the plants you've found is most likely to be the host, however, I have seen instances of host trees occurring 50 or more metres away from the shrooms they support.

More importantly I think you are too hasty in coming to the conclusion that poor host plant growth resuts in more poisonous shrooms. There are far too many other variables involved to properly address this issue based on your casual observation of one or two fruiting scenarios. More poisonous shrooms could just have just as easily resulted from such factors as (a) genetic properties of the observed strain (variation in metabolite production has been shown to vary between strains in this species), or (b) peculiarities of local soil chemistry. These are off the top of my head and there will be many more confounding variables.

If you really want a (scientific) answer you'd have to conduct an ecological study where all such variables are reasonably controlled for, while also sampling from the many more independent data points required for your results to be statistically meaningful.

Your theory sounds entirely plausible, but I would not accept it unless such a study were carried out.

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #1981773 - 10/05/03 04:16 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Hi Guys!!
I am returned from the "Land of Our Fathers"!
WHAT IS ALL THIS NEGATIVITY?!Not you Pluteus I hear what you say,clearly the jury is OUT on this one,lets see what happens as this earth spins on.HOWEVER....do NOT despair friends, I have picked semilanceata in the U.K WELL AFTER the first frosts IN LARGE NUMBERS in December,I won't tell you exactly where,suffice to say it was in the (mid) south east.Your POSITIVITY is important.Yeah maybe the potency was down a little (all though I wouldn't swear to even that)-your call Plute I ain't all things to ALL people-("Kalifornia Uber Alles,Kalifornia UUUBBER alles").Climate control,care and influence MUST be part of what we do!!If people want to PLAY with "DRUGS MAN" they can GO TO THE PHARMACISTS!!SHEEE this subject gets to me!You CANNOT predict the movements of mother nature!"She" has been "doing it" a lot longer than ANY of us.Power,power, power you WEILD it you cannot CONTROL it,and if you don't wish to do either DO SOMETHING ELSE!!!!  :mad:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (10/06/03 12:27 AM)

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Offlinepluteus
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #1981900 - 10/05/03 05:29 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

truly the shrooms are in danger
we may never know what we have already lost

in Berkshire I have picked liberty caps in July before
but never very many. more odd timings in recent years.

let's build a mushroom sanctuary



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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #1982911 - 10/06/03 12:39 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

"mutter mutter.....half a bloody inch of rain in Sennybridge last night boyo"
Yeah but it's not JUST the upper atmosphere though is it?Chemical spraying occurs on dairy and sheep farms aswell,according to me Da (and he lives there),and I wouldn't doubt it.Chemical impaction of ANY kind is obviously inimical to mushroom growth and reproduction,an "Organic" perspective would benefit all of us in more ways than one.
So,ask me how it went guys.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2001897 - 10/12/03 03:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

On that subject it may interest some of you to know that there IS now a way to support the production of the electricity we use by renewable non-polluting means.I recently changed the domestic supply to this place,(I'm still "primalling" out years of toxification,I guess you would call it an auric de-tox).Anyway IF you wish to study mycology through the propogation of mushrooms and fungi at home "correct" vibrations are essential.Concentration and sensitivity (to climatic conditions) are required in order to make accurate observations.Go to www.unit-e.co.uk,also guys please give my details as your referee (see profile,references are worth ?5 each to the referee),have fun!  :cool: 


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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InvisibleXenophobic
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2001933 - 10/12/03 04:46 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Nice info LoneWolf about time we had a company that makes sense instead of profit, if i decide to go with it, I'll be sure to look at your profile/preferences :smile:


--------------------
Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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OfflineSin Bad
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2001963 - 10/12/03 05:47 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Good work Lonewolf,

I encourage people to sign up to "green energy" programs. I've found that many suppliers actually offer you green energy programs, such as N-power, British Gas, etc. It's a great idea as it pushes for renewable energy and most of them don't cost you any more bling.

On the Liberty Cap front.... things are looking bad, after about two hours of searching in a normally excellent spot, I only found about 100 shrooms, most of which were small and shrivelled. I fear this could be the worst season on record.

On the upside, I am determined to find P. cyanacens this year. I have been sniffing out possible fruiting grounds, so far I've found a big pile of wood chips, a forest clearing with loads of saw dust, and several woodchip/mulch flowerbeds... so I'm keeping my eyes peeled, and just waiting for the rains......

I remember somebody around here recently was encourging the searching for P.cyanascnes in the UK, who ever that was, can you give me some tips on other possible venues?

Pluteus- what are the mushrooms in your signiture pic?


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Sin Bad]
    #2026111 - 10/20/03 03:42 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks you two,check out MJ's advice on cyanacens on this thread.Talking of Semilanceata do NOT despair,see previous comments on thread,however some advice on temperature from some of you tech types would be useful.I'm guessing frost,especially air frost,is a turn off for our fruity friends,although clearly frost doesn't destroy hyphae it must prevent the absorbtion of released spores.Does anyone out there have definitive info on possible temperature ranges and "degrees of frost" (whatever THEY are -explanation please!-).Also the ground is very dry ,does anyone know HOW MUCH rain we are likely to need?
In my darkest hours I do think that one way we could get our own back on the merchants of global warming would be to broadcast the spores of shrooms...oops..no hhofficer it was my friend here twas his idea hhonest!Twhich,sorry which brings me to the question of legality.I'm not sure whether to discuss it on this forum or ,better still, it's own (or both!),rest assured however at some point I may!There now nothing like descisiveness is there?...Is there!?  :devil:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (10/20/03 04:23 PM)

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InvisibleXenophobic
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2026408 - 10/20/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well as to rain, the wetter the better, but what do you mean by the "legality"? Do you mean in this country or worldwide? In this country shrooms are completely legal unless you dry them artificially or are caught in posession of dried shrooms. Even with the latter the law isn't quite finalised. Just keep dried shrooms away from prying eyes and you'll be fine.

For preciseness here's a quote from the BBC...

"The law with regard to magic mushrooms is complicated. The psilocybe mushroom or "magic mushroom" is not controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, but it contains psilocin, a hallucinogen, and psilocybin, an ester of psilocin, which are controlled as Class A drugs.

There have been a number of court cases concerning the status of psilocybe mushrooms. The courts have held that a person is not in possession of a controlled drug solely by reason of his being in possession of a naturally occurring substance - the mushroom - containing that drug. The growing of psilocybe mushrooms and the gathering and possession of them do not contravene the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

It is, however, an offence under the 1971 Act to possess a "preparation" or "product" of the controlled drugs psilocin or psilocybin. The courts have held that where the mushrooms have been prepared (eg by drying or by making into a powder) so that "they have ceased to be in their natural state and have been in some way altered by the hand of man" they constitute a "preparation" or "product" of the Class A controlled drug psilocin. The courts have also held that psilocybe mushrooms that had been frozen and packaged constituted a product containing the Class A controlled drug psilocin.

If you would like to read more about drugs and law, click here. For details on how drugs are classified in the UK, select this link and for more information on drink and drugs when you are abroad click here."


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2026410 - 10/20/03 05:17 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well as to rain, the wetter the better, but what do you mean by the "legality"? Do you mean in this country or worldwide? In this country shrooms are completely legal unless you dry them artificially or are caught in posession of dried shrooms. Even with the latter the law isn't quite finalised. Just keep dried shrooms away from prying eyes and you'll be fine.

For preciseness here's a quote from the BBC...

"The law with regard to magic mushrooms is complicated. The psilocybe mushroom or "magic mushroom" is not controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, but it contains psilocin, a hallucinogen, and psilocybin, an ester of psilocin, which are controlled as Class A drugs.

There have been a number of court cases concerning the status of psilocybe mushrooms. The courts have held that a person is not in possession of a controlled drug solely by reason of his being in possession of a naturally occurring substance - the mushroom - containing that drug. The growing of psilocybe mushrooms and the gathering and possession of them do not contravene the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

It is, however, an offence under the 1971 Act to possess a "preparation" or "product" of the controlled drugs psilocin or psilocybin. The courts have held that where the mushrooms have been prepared (eg by drying or by making into a powder) so that "they have ceased to be in their natural state and have been in some way altered by the hand of man" they constitute a "preparation" or "product" of the Class A controlled drug psilocin. The courts have also held that psilocybe mushrooms that had been frozen and packaged constituted a product containing the Class A controlled drug psilocin.


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2031595 - 10/22/03 04:25 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Ah Xenomorph
Thank you for the useful information on the U.K's legal position concerning psilocin and psilocybin;infact I was hinting at the possibility of broadcasting non-indigenous species in areas of ,especially, southern Britain where significant climate change has been induced by global warming.Clearly this is some stages further up or down ,depending on your perspective,the ladder of "serious" criminality from possession or home cultivation.
It looks like we may get some rainfall,it's the overnight temperatures which are concerning me at the moment.
Whilst we're at it too a word on conduct.I've met one farmer who was willing to let people pick on his land in exchange for cash,many I'm sure are not the ogres we may suspect them to be,carry an identification book to show them that you are aware of the dangers,don't break fences or disturb stock (especially the latter) unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY,don't overpick (especially you might want to leave some edibles for the farmstead etc. -and "others" for the...."others"-) if practical,don't cause undue disturbance and respect the environment,littering is unforgivable.It may be the case that the farmer is using non-organic methods on his fields be aware of this,try to engage the agricultural lobby in other forums and groups and debate with them the benefits of changing their methods etc.
As I said before I will engage with the wider debate about legality in the appropriate forum once my intent has coalesced.Thanks again.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2031677 - 10/22/03 06:38 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Sin Bad - I am one who has been trying to promote Psilocybe cyanescens hunting in the UK.





however, in southern england this season has so far been depressingly crap -
I urge all those who can to set up their own beds and water them, as with current trends in climate change we can expect more of these very dry, mild autumns (so I am told)

As for legality, the issue grows ever more complicated. In the late 1970s, the then president of the British Mycological Society, Colin Booth (who died recently), petitioned the Home Office on behalf of the society, arguing that its members were being unfairly prosecuted after 'legitimate' mushroom forays, for being in possession of psilocybe mushrooms. He pointed out that 'bone fide researchers' were at risk of arrest even though they were collecting for 'examination purposes only'. This lead to the well-known change in the law allowing possession of fresh psilocybes.

"Big up to Colin Booth RIP dude" -my mate

These days, however, what constitutes 'preparation' of shrooms for consumption has become increasingly contentious, and the level of policing, and policing policy itself varies dramatically according to who and where you are.

The fact of the matter is, drug legislation in the UK in some cases works by reverse osmosis. To take cannabis as an example, UK residents will remember how the police forces in certain boroughs chose to IGNORE the letter of the law in implementing their own, milder strategies for cannabis regulation. Subsequently, the government became impressed by the efficacy of the ad hoc policing strategies and the law is now being changed to accomodate them.

In mushroon law, a similar situation is now emerging. In London, several amsterdam-style shops are openly trading in fresh, packaged (and very expensive) psilocybin mushrooms of various species. The packaging of these mushrooms and their sale for money is techincally in breach of the law, but although these shops are located very prominently (Charing Cross Road & Camden, etc) there are currently no
moves to close them and arrest their staff.

This seems to be a sign of a general trend towards increasing leniency in psilocybe policing. Hopefully the law will eventually be changed to reflect this.

It is good to see the political mood in Europe growing increasingly fed up and bored with the unrealistic and unfair 'zero tolerance' policies of recent American administrations. We used to be bullied into alliance with the Great American War on Drugs, but things are changing. We've become increasingly keen to do things our own way, and in doing so, to revel in the much greater magnitude of freedom and civil liberties than are enjoyed by residents of the self-proclaimed 'Land of the Free'.

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #2031682 - 10/22/03 06:50 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Paid]
    #2031848 - 10/22/03 09:17 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Pluteus,

Is that massive haul of cyans from a naturally seeded source, or did you create a patch?

Also, how late can you find cyans till... I am under the impression that that can be found a bit later than liberty caps.. up until late december??


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Sin Bad]
    #2032017 - 10/22/03 10:24 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

The massive haul is from a semi-created patch. Mulch transplantation, nothing technical. I have seen and collected from 'natural' patches producing just as abundantly, but of course what is 'natural' in this context is debatable - in the UK they almost always spring up on 'ornamental' woodchip mulch which is artificially produced and processed. For a debate about the 'naturalness' of cyan as a UK species see earlier on in this thread.

cyans persist until very late depending on the season... mid Dec last year I think...

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #2032024 - 10/22/03 10:26 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

The one and only wood loving active i found in the uk last year was in mid december, and its finaly raining so lets hope for some fruits :]


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2032237 - 10/22/03 11:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

You can read some of the court rulingsa and the Judges who made them at m my site at:

http://www.mushroomjohn.com/news.htm

I also have 13 new articles from the mid 1970s to post there, just have nnot gotten around to it yet. Will work on them next week but check the UK section of the Grape Vine at my site for legal information. They are also legal to cultivate in England.

mj

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2033369 - 10/22/03 05:22 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

LoneWolf, I know exactly what you mean it has been such a dry year here in the U.K (the driest on record since 1765) that it's hardly worth looking for libs in the southern part of the UK (that includes me). I've been on around 20 (figure of speech) hunting trips in the past week with company and alone on alkaline and acidic soil, on gigantic hills and at sea level producing hardly anything at all and the ground being drier every time untill like recently, sand.. I think this year it's wise to wait another week before the Cyans really start coming out instead of the libs but that's more or less the same story, not enouth rain.

I know of one place about 2 minutes from me (just around the corner) which is a pub and it has a half acre garden, which has woodchips absolutely everywhere and is watered constantly (they have lots of semi-tropical plants). Cyans have been popping up their ever since someone dropped some mycelium on the biggest pile of woodchips 2 years ago and buried it with their feet (I wonder who? lol). But that's in an artificial environment. Whoever thought England would never rain? I thought we were world renound for "rain & fog", I wish it was that way in reality.

MJ your last reply provided some interesting and useful information, thanks.

"They are also legal to cultivate in England." - Don't I know it, reminds me to check my 13 x 13 spare bedroom. bbs......


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2035212 - 10/23/03 04:15 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

There is however my friends more than one way to remove the epidermis from a feline,however before I am reported to the RSPCA a word on forecasting!Apart from the interesting daily "rainfall animation" on the Met Office site free information is hard to come by ("yum".."shhh"),a monthly forecast is available and so are various other services ("Metcall" and "Metfax" are premium rate numbers).However living where I do (it's in the profile) and being aware of the powerful influence of electromagnetic energies and the other effects of the Sun's radiations it's strikes me that some of this is simply the work of charlatans compared to longer range forecasts which are based on an awareness of solar activity such as;sunspots and flares etc.
Also, if you guys are happy to discuss outdoor propogation in this forum,or if you prefer another, please let me know and we can give the cat a break!  :oogle: 


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2035411 - 10/23/03 07:20 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

You know people, when it rains it rains, forecasts are not worthy of my attention. a few days ago after heavey rains and floods all over the stte of Washington the newspapers and weather service said the rain was not done and it would rain again in the day all day and the sun actually came out for most of the day with no rain at all. So it is really silly to scout out weather forecasts. If it rains, wait a day or two to go hunting and i am sure they will be there.

mj

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2039167 - 10/24/03 04:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Hhhmmm.o.k MJ however following my parents split one pair ended up living in North Devon the other in The Brecon Beacons.In order to schedule my mycological studies,as I explained to the Met Office,it is necessary -especially as advance booking for train tickets ensures low price fares- to know what the weather is likely to be AT LEAST one month in advance.My comment about solar activity referred to the necessity of an awareness of these forces AND the hugely greater accurracy possible when these principles are applied to longer range forecasting.Infact there is a company in the U.K which specialises in such methods of forecasting.ALSO this has been a drier autumn than anyone can remember or record records,living where you do you don't have to worry about such things YET.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2039213 - 10/24/03 05:34 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

The PNW weather is exactly like British weather, it rains and it is foggy at times.

WE had the dryuest summer ever and now we are having floods, the only difference in Settle is that many yearsr we get no snow int he city. last year we had two day s of snow, one in march and one in April. WE do get freezes though and one itime I remember snow from Thankgsgivng through januaery.

have a shroomy day,

mj

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2039848 - 10/24/03 02:27 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

LoneWolf,

As you said this summer has been a record breaker, being hotter than the Bahamas, Bermuda, India, Florida, New Orleans, Tristan da Cunha, Turks and Caicos Islands, Pitcairn, Montserrat and many more at times hence the "No Growth" that seems to be upon us, (I've just come back from a 7am to 7pm hunt, so I can verify the "No Growth" aspect. Cyans are nowhere except for peoples front gardens (artificially watered throughout the summer) and my morals prohibit me from theft. However I did find more than 1500 semilanceata's.

You travel to Devon since one parent lives there? I used to live in "Newton Abbot", 5 miles from Torquay and around 10 miles from Dartmoor and believe me their are thousands of Psilocybe semilanceata's up on that moor. The drought this year has hardly afftected the Westcountry, all it ever does is rain their any how. Unlike the "South East" of the country. Go to "Tor Point" on Dartmoor, you'll be surprised. (I know that sounds like it kinda breaks the rules but it isn't a "specific" area. The area is around 5 square miles with Dartmoor being around 40 square miles).


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2057507 - 10/30/03 02:33 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

just spent a week foraying in SE England (Norfolk), active species were quite few and far between, however quite a lot of rare and unusual mushroom species were around (e.g. Battarea phalloides, Tulostoma melanocyclum, Phaeolepiota aurea), pics to follow soon in a separate thread, as soon as I can get them uploaded

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #2084086 - 11/08/03 01:32 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Moan moan..mutter..lope.."supposed to log-in before you can post"..mutter...AH there you all are!("I've been looking ALL OVER for you!").Mushrooms hhmm,that's right..there arent any...yet...Dessicants that's right need to know stuff ("make it STOP" ed.).Alder groves and birches, LOCALISED (within meters) rainfall two dark clouds and a double rainbow.Alder is sacred to "The White Goddess".Solar flares you can EAT!!A red ribbon of light above a certain common,Dragon's BLOOD "The Feathered Serpent"!AND an eclipse the night of the Samhain full moon!!"Trick or Treat"my Scandinavian friends?!!!!"Ha!ha!ha!He!he!he! I'm a laughing gnome and you can't catch me!"By Odin's beard!!BIFROST......!


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2084092 - 11/08/03 01:34 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed :grin:


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Paid]
    #2084266 - 11/08/03 02:33 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

"Blue CLAM Cult"!?!?!


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2138224 - 11/26/03 03:01 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Ah sorry guys just had to collect my thoughts a while there!THANK YOU Xenomorph for your geographical "sensitivities" (no really bub thanks).I know it's been a while but I've been kinda involved!I did post a question about the use of dessicants for mycorrhizal fungi (ie.muscimol producers) on one of the cultivation threads but have been unable to find it since.Is this subject considered unworthy?.It is therefore my intention to start a "British Indigenous" thread on the Mushroom Cultivation forum to deal with ALL questions concerning the internal and external cultivation of indigenous British "actives".Not that I'm biased in favour of actives you understand,infact in the last week I've basketed a really beautiful clutch of macrolepiota procera "parasol mushrooms",they seem to have a remarkable chestnut flavour when eaten raw and taste as if they are full of trace elements.I note incidentally that some similar shrooms are,whilst considered edible in small quantities,cadmium bearing!This bears again on what we were saying before,the environment is so important for the production of quality fungi,remember Chernobyl!?I'm still intrigued by the apparent relationship between cyanascens and The Alder,is this an aberration caused by the creation of "artificial" mulches or would we EXPECT to find cyanascens in alder groves?You see the (sacred) alder doesn't seem to produce large quantities of ground cover in the form of bark chippings,and alder is NOT,as far as I am aware,a softwood.
One thing I must mention is the six ,or so, strong troop of Muscaria growing on the bank of a local dual carriageway AMAZING.Although given the pollution levels I wouldn't want to ingest them,however they would "print up" though (big strong troop in approx 2sq m)!I'm not sure I've ever encountered a "pantherina",but I have seen some literature concerning their use by Siberian Shaman,has anyone "encountered" them?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2138869 - 11/26/03 08:51 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

P. cyanescens do not grow in alder groves. They do grow in alder mulch and the spores are definitley attracted to Alder, and also Willow mixed with alder. at least here in the PNW.

Only 18 spedimens of P. cyanescens were ever found in the woods and that was on a trail from where Cedar and Alder trees were logged out and alder seeds fell along side the logging roads where they regrow like planted rows of corn.

However, the clearcut alder areas are home to Millions of p. pelliculosa, Galerina autumnalis, Naematoloma species and Aluria auranta (Carrot Cups).


And Lone wolf, No Siberians ever used Amanita pantherina only A. Muscaria. And they were Koryaks, Chuchees and Kamchadal tribal groups as well as some Finns and Ugrians and a few small groups in Afghanistan.

Here is a small list of those who use amanita from a forthcoming article my me and James Arthur (author of Mankind and Mushrooms).

Quote:

"PALEO-SIBERIAN

Some of the earliest records reporting the possible use of Amanita muscaria as an inebriant may be viewed in the ancient Vedic Hymns (Unsigned a, and b). In recent times we have learned that some isolated groups of Finn?Ugrian people, the Ostyak and the Vogul of Western Siberia are known to employ Amanita muscaria shamanistically. So are the Chukchee, Koryak and Kamchadal people of Northeastern Siberia (Heizer, 1944; Brekham & Sam, 1967; Wasson, 1968; LaBarre, 1975). Other reports verify that the use of Amanita muscaria is not just restricted geographically to western and northern Siberia (James Arthur 2000, Carl Ruck & Blaise Staples 2001). Both Graves (1960) and Schultes (1976) have indicated that some Finns and Lapps, as well as Afghanis all use this species shamanistically (Graves, 1960; Schultes, 1976). It is also well documented in Japan and the Philippines. The use of Amanita muscaria was recently reported among some groups of North American Indians (Wasson, 1979b). In her books "Windmills of the Mind" and "Hallucinogens: Cross Cultural Perspectives," Marlene Dobkin de Rios (1976, 1984) discusses the strange custom of Amanita urine?drinking by the reindeer herdsmen of Siberia. Travelers and explorers in Siberia had first reported this interesting habit during the late seventeenth and eighteenth century and similar evidence of the urine drinking is also mentioned in the Vedic scriptures (Rig Veda, 9th and 10th mandalas, Unsigned A, Unsigned B). It is likely that some psilocybian mushrooms were also used in Siberian shamanism (Wasson, 1968).


North American Indians
In North America, Amanita muscaria has been observed and reportedly used among two different groups of Native American Indians:

l). The Dogrib Athabascan (Schultes & Hofmann 1979) and

2). The Ojibway of Northern Michigan, U.S.A; and Ontario, Canada (Keewaydinoquay, 1978, 1979, 1998; Wasson, 1979b).

Use of this Amanita species by Native American Indians dates back over four hundred years. This is the only presently well known record of a group of North American Indians who use mushrooms as a sacrament. It should be noted that several Native American Indian tribes share in their mythology stories of little people associated with mushrooms (Ojibwe, Chippewa, Iriquois and others) and it would not be surprising to discover a much more widespread knowledge of the mushrooms among tribes that are presently hesitant to give up these religious sacraments to mildly curious western inquisitors.

The active ingredients isolated from Amanita muscaria include ibotenic acid and muscimol (Saleminck, 1963; Eugster, Muller & Good, 1965) and the same causative agents have also been isolated from a similar species; Amanita pantherina (Takemoto, Nakajima & Sakuma, 1964). Both of the above-mentioned species are sometimes employed as recreational drugs in the Pacific Northwest region of the United States (Ott, 1978b; Weil, 1977, 1980) and in Europe (Fericgla, 1992, 1993; Festi and Bianchi, 1991). Furthermore, there are several other species of Amanita, which also contain these classical agents (Ott, 1993; Guzm?n, Allen & Gartz, 2000).
The chemical compounds found in Amanita species are vastly different in action to those fungi known to contain the alkaloids psilocine and/or psilocybine."




The above copyright, 2003 by J. W. Allen and james Arthur for a book edited by Ralph Metzner on Mushroom exoceriences.

mjshroomer

Edited by mjshroomer (11/26/03 08:57 PM)

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2140904 - 11/27/03 07:35 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Well MJ you say they weren't used shamanistically (I wish I still had that book) but the above exerpt does clearly state that the same chemicals as are found in a.muscaria are to be found in a.pantherina.I (sadly again in the same book whose title I know not) think I've read that they were even MORE highly prized by shaman than a.muscaria,and that they are (potentially) even more deadly (or to be more correct "challenging" on a psycho-spiritual level).


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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2155980 - 12/03/03 04:20 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Today I would like to talk about the subject of "picking out",which may be a painful subject but here goes.Areas which produce large numbers of quality semilanceata are too precious for words.In good years the question of "picking out" may not be such a pressing one however when access is restricted,to other larger sites,and yeilds are low is it not possible that "over-enthusiastic" picking may simply "kill" a field,or knock it back so hard that it may take several years to recover?


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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2160540 - 12/05/03 03:43 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

..and so as the country sinks slowly in the west...
Another serious matter arises!Apparently we are beginning to see a rhodedendron loving "flora destroying" fungus infect our trees here after having destroyed half (or is it all?) the American oaks in California.It has infected a "Horse" ,from the Welsh "gwyres" meaning HOT, Chestnut and Beech in Cornwall and a tree in Sussex.Apparently it is spread mainly from rhodedendron (poisonous GREEDY buggers) and vibernum.I say pull 'em up and BURN 'EM!I remember the tragedy of dutch elm disease here in Britain,we lost ALL our large native elm trees,it MUST NOT be ALLOWED to happen again,we must act now.Rhodedndrons have a bad reputation for "bullying" other species to death and now they are affecting our great trees with their infections.Tell you folks,tell your friends,dig 'em up fellas...burn them!Bloody ornamentalists!Sorry guys I love a beautiful flower as much as anyone,but nothing...NOTHING in nature comes without a price.Also if anyone here has any information about this disease please let us know via this thread immediately.Thank you.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2160621 - 12/05/03 05:27 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

MJ wrote: 'The Collections gathered by Roy Watling in the royal botanical Gardens in Edinburgh are the same P. cyanescens as found in the PNW. I know because I picked them there. '

This being purely based on the macroscopic appearances is really not satisfactory. Im sure I could find variants in Australia of Ps.subaeruginosa that macroscopically would be almost identical to cyanescens - watling and guzman originally identified them as cyanescens until microscopic examination.
Watling doesnt really add much credence to any of the species that he has been involved in delineating by doing this. The reason Chang and Mills so easily found compatibility between Ps.eucalypta and Ps.subaeruginosa was because they used a type specimen found by Watling alone of Ps.eucalypta - which when examined microscopically demonstrates none of the characteristics described by Guzman - so in effect he went and picked the wrong mushroom because it looked macroscopically like the one he and Guzman found. That is poor mycology - especially if your going to deposit it as a type specimen! Perhaps had only the specimens used by guzman originally been lecho-typed they might have a stronger case for delineation.
I believe that if Guzman was right about Ps.eucalypta - and i dont think he was, Watling's personal specimens have actually muddied the waters because by the time that Buchanan examined the type specimens, they overlapped with australiana completely - what a mess!

As the original cyanescens varieties in UK had no pluerocystidia, perhaps an examination of their cystidia would indicate whether the new vigourous strain was an import from the USA with present pluerocystidia, or a european without cystidia. COuld even be subaeruginosa - if Stropharia aur. is an import from Australia, then subaeruginosa could be a possibility.


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2160634 - 12/05/03 05:40 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I find Lonewolf's druidic ideas quite interesting.
I was wondering if you could point me some archaeological evidence that druidic beliefs inherantly used psychoactive mushrooms.
Fairly recently I was speaking to someone who called themselves a 'neo-pagan' who was telling me about the one great european pagan religious system - post neolithic - and its frequent use of mushrooms like Ps.semilanceata and Panaeolus Subbalt. in mainland europe.
This was actually my minor at uni, so i found it amusing.
I explained that the majority of religious beliefs in europe had been heavily Teutonised quite early and revolved exclusively around expressions of the teutonic belief system that was eventually adopted by the Norman/Norse many centuries later - converting the chief god Woten into Odin, etc. These were the cultures that the romans referred to as barbarian - and who early christian referred to as 'pagan'.
These religions were prodimantly patrimonial type religions that held warfare and conquest in high regard and were quite different to the celtic and druidic traditions of the British Isles.
The connection of these mainland european groups is fairly weak - and there is no archaeoligical evidence for this = but druidism im not sure about, and would be keen to hear about your thoughts on this.
I love Terence McKenna, but his views on the mushroom-worshipping neolithic is based on some pretty flimsy archaeological evidence as well.


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2160841 - 12/05/03 08:55 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

The only thing that jumps to mind is that one
stone at stone hendge has what appear to be
small clusters of liberty caps carved into it.


This isnt the one i was thinking of, so I'll keep looking.
http://www.stonehengelaserscan.org/stone4/stone4.html


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er

Edited by G a n j a (12/05/03 09:00 AM)

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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: G a n j a]
    #2161528 - 12/05/03 12:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Druid "Smooid" some would say, the name apparently means "one who knows the wisdom of the trees " if we take this to be so then clearly the term could refer to a priest or shaman of -really- any tradition since the dawn of consciousness.I've had my run-ins with the Norse-Middle European tradition's apparent dichotomy with that of,what I like to call,the"Brethonic" civilisation,and those recently!Book learning's all very well folks but without the practical experience of the principles of geometry and genetics one tends to scrabble in the dark.As for McKenna well "it's a thing!"  :rasta:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (12/05/03 01:20 PM)

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2165197 - 12/06/03 08:23 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

interesting - nothing surprises me :smile:


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OfflineSilverwolf
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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2174814 - 12/13/03 01:37 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

On a more painful note I feel I need to get something off my chest (kidneys,liver, etc.etc. ed).Whilst out on a rather fraught,and predominantly fruitless "foray" over a week ago I inadvertantly poisoned myself!This involved my consumption of one small mushroom which would seem (according to a nice photo I.D I've got here) to be Inocybe geophylla,it is listed as actively poisonous,and it is!I am still suffering the after effects.I was too hasty in wanting to make a positive I.D I'm afraid,ironically I had eschewed eating what I am almost certain now was a semilanceata of almost identical appearance half an hour or so prior to coming across this little imposter!White form with a small dark nipple and BIG bite BEWARE!! :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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