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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2039167 -

Hhhmmm.o.k MJ however following my parents split one pair ended up living in North Devon the other in The Brecon Beacons.In order to schedule my mycological studies,as I explained to the Met Office,it is necessary -especially as advance booking for train tickets ensures low price fares- to know what the weather is likely to be AT LEAST one month in advance.My comment about solar activity referred to the necessity of an awareness of these forces AND the hugely greater accurracy possible when these principles are applied to longer range forecasting.Infact there is a company in the U.K which specialises in such methods of forecasting.ALSO this has been a drier autumn than anyone can remember or record records,living where you do you don't have to worry about such things YET.


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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2039213 -

The PNW weather is exactly like British weather, it rains and it is foggy at times.

WE had the dryuest summer ever and now we are having floods, the only difference in Settle is that many yearsr we get no snow int he city. last year we had two day s of snow, one in march and one in April. WE do get freezes though and one itime I remember snow from Thankgsgivng through januaery.

have a shroomy day,

mj

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2039848 -

LoneWolf,

As you said this summer has been a record breaker, being hotter than the Bahamas, Bermuda, India, Florida, New Orleans, Tristan da Cunha, Turks and Caicos Islands, Pitcairn, Montserrat and many more at times hence the "No Growth" that seems to be upon us, (I've just come back from a 7am to 7pm hunt, so I can verify the "No Growth" aspect. Cyans are nowhere except for peoples front gardens (artificially watered throughout the summer) and my morals prohibit me from theft. However I did find more than 1500 semilanceata's.

You travel to Devon since one parent lives there? I used to live in "Newton Abbot", 5 miles from Torquay and around 10 miles from Dartmoor and believe me their are thousands of Psilocybe semilanceata's up on that moor. The drought this year has hardly afftected the Westcountry, all it ever does is rain their any how. Unlike the "South East" of the country. Go to "Tor Point" on Dartmoor, you'll be surprised. (I know that sounds like it kinda breaks the rules but it isn't a "specific" area. The area is around 5 square miles with Dartmoor being around 40 square miles).


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Only will man realise, when he cuts down the last tree, that he cannot eat money

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2057507 -

just spent a week foraying in SE England (Norfolk), active species were quite few and far between, however quite a lot of rare and unusual mushroom species were around (e.g. Battarea phalloides, Tulostoma melanocyclum, Phaeolepiota aurea), pics to follow soon in a separate thread, as soon as I can get them uploaded

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: pluteus]
    #2084086 -

Moan moan..mutter..lope.."supposed to log-in before you can post"..mutter...AH there you all are!("I've been looking ALL OVER for you!").Mushrooms hhmm,that's right..there arent any...yet...Dessicants that's right need to know stuff ("make it STOP" ed.).Alder groves and birches, LOCALISED (within meters) rainfall two dark clouds and a double rainbow.Alder is sacred to "The White Goddess".Solar flares you can EAT!!A red ribbon of light above a certain common,Dragon's BLOOD "The Feathered Serpent"!AND an eclipse the night of the Samhain full moon!!"Trick or Treat"my Scandinavian friends?!!!!"Ha!ha!ha!He!he!he! I'm a laughing gnome and you can't catch me!"By Odin's beard!!BIFROST......!


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2084092 -

Agreed :grin:


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Paid]
    #2084266 -

"Blue CLAM Cult"!?!?!


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"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2138224 -

Ah sorry guys just had to collect my thoughts a while there!THANK YOU Xenomorph for your geographical "sensitivities" (no really bub thanks).I know it's been a while but I've been kinda involved!I did post a question about the use of dessicants for mycorrhizal fungi (ie.muscimol producers) on one of the cultivation threads but have been unable to find it since.Is this subject considered unworthy?.It is therefore my intention to start a "British Indigenous" thread on the Mushroom Cultivation forum to deal with ALL questions concerning the internal and external cultivation of indigenous British "actives".Not that I'm biased in favour of actives you understand,infact in the last week I've basketed a really beautiful clutch of macrolepiota procera "parasol mushrooms",they seem to have a remarkable chestnut flavour when eaten raw and taste as if they are full of trace elements.I note incidentally that some similar shrooms are,whilst considered edible in small quantities,cadmium bearing!This bears again on what we were saying before,the environment is so important for the production of quality fungi,remember Chernobyl!?I'm still intrigued by the apparent relationship between cyanascens and The Alder,is this an aberration caused by the creation of "artificial" mulches or would we EXPECT to find cyanascens in alder groves?You see the (sacred) alder doesn't seem to produce large quantities of ground cover in the form of bark chippings,and alder is NOT,as far as I am aware,a softwood.
One thing I must mention is the six ,or so, strong troop of Muscaria growing on the bank of a local dual carriageway AMAZING.Although given the pollution levels I wouldn't want to ingest them,however they would "print up" though (big strong troop in approx 2sq m)!I'm not sure I've ever encountered a "pantherina",but I have seen some literature concerning their use by Siberian Shaman,has anyone "encountered" them?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2138869 -

P. cyanescens do not grow in alder groves. They do grow in alder mulch and the spores are definitley attracted to Alder, and also Willow mixed with alder. at least here in the PNW.

Only 18 spedimens of P. cyanescens were ever found in the woods and that was on a trail from where Cedar and Alder trees were logged out and alder seeds fell along side the logging roads where they regrow like planted rows of corn.

However, the clearcut alder areas are home to Millions of p. pelliculosa, Galerina autumnalis, Naematoloma species and Aluria auranta (Carrot Cups).


And Lone wolf, No Siberians ever used Amanita pantherina only A. Muscaria. And they were Koryaks, Chuchees and Kamchadal tribal groups as well as some Finns and Ugrians and a few small groups in Afghanistan.

Here is a small list of those who use amanita from a forthcoming article my me and James Arthur (author of Mankind and Mushrooms).

Quote:
"PALEO-SIBERIAN

Some of the earliest records reporting the possible use of Amanita muscaria as an inebriant may be viewed in the ancient Vedic Hymns (Unsigned a, and b). In recent times we have learned that some isolated groups of Finn?Ugrian people, the Ostyak and the Vogul of Western Siberia are known to employ Amanita muscaria shamanistically. So are the Chukchee, Koryak and Kamchadal people of Northeastern Siberia (Heizer, 1944; Brekham & Sam, 1967; Wasson, 1968; LaBarre, 1975). Other reports verify that the use of Amanita muscaria is not just restricted geographically to western and northern Siberia (James Arthur 2000, Carl Ruck & Blaise Staples 2001). Both Graves (1960) and Schultes (1976) have indicated that some Finns and Lapps, as well as Afghanis all use this species shamanistically (Graves, 1960; Schultes, 1976). It is also well documented in Japan and the Philippines. The use of Amanita muscaria was recently reported among some groups of North American Indians (Wasson, 1979b). In her books "Windmills of the Mind" and "Hallucinogens: Cross Cultural Perspectives," Marlene Dobkin de Rios (1976, 1984) discusses the strange custom of Amanita urine?drinking by the reindeer herdsmen of Siberia. Travelers and explorers in Siberia had first reported this interesting habit during the late seventeenth and eighteenth century and similar evidence of the urine drinking is also mentioned in the Vedic scriptures (Rig Veda, 9th and 10th mandalas, Unsigned A, Unsigned B). It is likely that some psilocybian mushrooms were also used in Siberian shamanism (Wasson, 1968).


North American Indians
In North America, Amanita muscaria has been observed and reportedly used among two different groups of Native American Indians:

l). The Dogrib Athabascan (Schultes & Hofmann 1979) and

2). The Ojibway of Northern Michigan, U.S.A; and Ontario, Canada (Keewaydinoquay, 1978, 1979, 1998; Wasson, 1979b).

Use of this Amanita species by Native American Indians dates back over four hundred years. This is the only presently well known record of a group of North American Indians who use mushrooms as a sacrament. It should be noted that several Native American Indian tribes share in their mythology stories of little people associated with mushrooms (Ojibwe, Chippewa, Iriquois and others) and it would not be surprising to discover a much more widespread knowledge of the mushrooms among tribes that are presently hesitant to give up these religious sacraments to mildly curious western inquisitors.

The active ingredients isolated from Amanita muscaria include ibotenic acid and muscimol (Saleminck, 1963; Eugster, Muller & Good, 1965) and the same causative agents have also been isolated from a similar species; Amanita pantherina (Takemoto, Nakajima & Sakuma, 1964). Both of the above-mentioned species are sometimes employed as recreational drugs in the Pacific Northwest region of the United States (Ott, 1978b; Weil, 1977, 1980) and in Europe (Fericgla, 1992, 1993; Festi and Bianchi, 1991). Furthermore, there are several other species of Amanita, which also contain these classical agents (Ott, 1993; Guzm?n, Allen & Gartz, 2000).
The chemical compounds found in Amanita species are vastly different in action to those fungi known to contain the alkaloids psilocine and/or psilocybine."




The above copyright, 2003 by J. W. Allen and james Arthur for a book edited by Ralph Metzner on Mushroom exoceriences.

mjshroomer

Edited by mjshroomer (11/26/03 08:57 PM)

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2140904 -

Well MJ you say they weren't used shamanistically (I wish I still had that book) but the above exerpt does clearly state that the same chemicals as are found in a.muscaria are to be found in a.pantherina.I (sadly again in the same book whose title I know not) think I've read that they were even MORE highly prized by shaman than a.muscaria,and that they are (potentially) even more deadly (or to be more correct "challenging" on a psycho-spiritual level).


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2155980 -

Today I would like to talk about the subject of "picking out",which may be a painful subject but here goes.Areas which produce large numbers of quality semilanceata are too precious for words.In good years the question of "picking out" may not be such a pressing one however when access is restricted,to other larger sites,and yeilds are low is it not possible that "over-enthusiastic" picking may simply "kill" a field,or knock it back so hard that it may take several years to recover?


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2160540 -

..and so as the country sinks slowly in the west...
Another serious matter arises!Apparently we are beginning to see a rhodedendron loving "flora destroying" fungus infect our trees here after having destroyed half (or is it all?) the American oaks in California.It has infected a "Horse" ,from the Welsh "gwyres" meaning HOT, Chestnut and Beech in Cornwall and a tree in Sussex.Apparently it is spread mainly from rhodedendron (poisonous GREEDY buggers) and vibernum.I say pull 'em up and BURN 'EM!I remember the tragedy of dutch elm disease here in Britain,we lost ALL our large native elm trees,it MUST NOT be ALLOWED to happen again,we must act now.Rhodedndrons have a bad reputation for "bullying" other species to death and now they are affecting our great trees with their infections.Tell you folks,tell your friends,dig 'em up fellas...burn them!Bloody ornamentalists!Sorry guys I love a beautiful flower as much as anyone,but nothing...NOTHING in nature comes without a price.Also if anyone here has any information about this disease please let us know via this thread immediately.Thank you.


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Xenophobic]
    #2160621 -

MJ wrote: 'The Collections gathered by Roy Watling in the royal botanical Gardens in Edinburgh are the same P. cyanescens as found in the PNW. I know because I picked them there. '

This being purely based on the macroscopic appearances is really not satisfactory. Im sure I could find variants in Australia of Ps.subaeruginosa that macroscopically would be almost identical to cyanescens - watling and guzman originally identified them as cyanescens until microscopic examination.
Watling doesnt really add much credence to any of the species that he has been involved in delineating by doing this. The reason Chang and Mills so easily found compatibility between Ps.eucalypta and Ps.subaeruginosa was because they used a type specimen found by Watling alone of Ps.eucalypta - which when examined microscopically demonstrates none of the characteristics described by Guzman - so in effect he went and picked the wrong mushroom because it looked macroscopically like the one he and Guzman found. That is poor mycology - especially if your going to deposit it as a type specimen! Perhaps had only the specimens used by guzman originally been lecho-typed they might have a stronger case for delineation.
I believe that if Guzman was right about Ps.eucalypta - and i dont think he was, Watling's personal specimens have actually muddied the waters because by the time that Buchanan examined the type specimens, they overlapped with australiana completely - what a mess!

As the original cyanescens varieties in UK had no pluerocystidia, perhaps an examination of their cystidia would indicate whether the new vigourous strain was an import from the USA with present pluerocystidia, or a european without cystidia. COuld even be subaeruginosa - if Stropharia aur. is an import from Australia, then subaeruginosa could be a possibility.


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2160634 -

I find Lonewolf's druidic ideas quite interesting.
I was wondering if you could point me some archaeological evidence that druidic beliefs inherantly used psychoactive mushrooms.
Fairly recently I was speaking to someone who called themselves a 'neo-pagan' who was telling me about the one great european pagan religious system - post neolithic - and its frequent use of mushrooms like Ps.semilanceata and Panaeolus Subbalt. in mainland europe.
This was actually my minor at uni, so i found it amusing.
I explained that the majority of religious beliefs in europe had been heavily Teutonised quite early and revolved exclusively around expressions of the teutonic belief system that was eventually adopted by the Norman/Norse many centuries later - converting the chief god Woten into Odin, etc. These were the cultures that the romans referred to as barbarian - and who early christian referred to as 'pagan'.
These religions were prodimantly patrimonial type religions that held warfare and conquest in high regard and were quite different to the celtic and druidic traditions of the British Isles.
The connection of these mainland european groups is fairly weak - and there is no archaeoligical evidence for this = but druidism im not sure about, and would be keen to hear about your thoughts on this.
I love Terence McKenna, but his views on the mushroom-worshipping neolithic is based on some pretty flimsy archaeological evidence as well.


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2160841 -

The only thing that jumps to mind is that one
stone at stone hendge has what appear to be
small clusters of liberty caps carved into it.


This isnt the one i was thinking of, so I'll keep looking.
http://www.stonehengelaserscan.org/stone4/stone4.html


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er

Edited by G a n j a (12/05/03 09:00 AM)

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: G a n j a]
    #2161528 -

Druid "Smooid" some would say, the name apparently means "one who knows the wisdom of the trees " if we take this to be so then clearly the term could refer to a priest or shaman of -really- any tradition since the dawn of consciousness.I've had my run-ins with the Norse-Middle European tradition's apparent dichotomy with that of,what I like to call,the"Brethonic" civilisation,and those recently!Book learning's all very well folks but without the practical experience of the principles of geometry and genetics one tends to scrabble in the dark.As for McKenna well "it's a thing!"  :rasta:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

Edited by Lonewolf (12/05/03 01:20 PM)

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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Silverwolf]
    #2165197 -

interesting - nothing surprises me :smile:


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Re: British Indigenous [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2174814 -

On a more painful note I feel I need to get something off my chest (kidneys,liver, etc.etc. ed).Whilst out on a rather fraught,and predominantly fruitless "foray" over a week ago I inadvertantly poisoned myself!This involved my consumption of one small mushroom which would seem (according to a nice photo I.D I've got here) to be Inocybe geophylla,it is listed as actively poisonous,and it is!I am still suffering the after effects.I was too hasty in wanting to make a positive I.D I'm afraid,ironically I had eschewed eating what I am almost certain now was a semilanceata of almost identical appearance half an hour or so prior to coming across this little imposter!White form with a small dark nipple and BIG bite BEWARE!! :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Odrade read the word silently and then aloud.
"Arafel."
She knew this word.Reverend Mothers of the tyrants time had impressed it into the Bene Gesserit consciousness,tracing it's roots to the most ancient sources.
"Arafel:the cloud darkness at the end of the universe.""

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