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noob1303
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Registered: 11/10/13
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No pins on top or fruits
#19117751 - 11/10/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I cased rye berries with coir/verm about 2 weeks ago. There is a lot of really white mycelium. They smell nice a shroomey and are moist on top. I give FAE about 3-5 times a day and have 12 hours of 6500k/light.Humidity is between 95%-98% and the temp is between 74-78 I can't seem to get any good fruits on top and 2 of the pans have almost no pins. Some of the mycelium is turning blue also. One pan has a lot of stalls Any suggestions on how to get more pins and fruits.
Edited by noob1303 (11/10/13 10:29 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19117789 - 11/10/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Casing might not be what you think it is. A casing is a non-nutritive layer. Coir+verm is not a casing layer it's a bulk substrate, and it's nutritious to the myc.
You probably have some old and outdated info.
Quote:
Bodhisatta said: If you haven't already Watch these
Let's grow mushrooms You can skip the PF videos most likely
How frank gets shit done This is franks post with links to his teks. Frank is one of our Trusted Cultivators. If you use the advance search engine you can click a box for trusted cultivators. This will give you replies to the question you had(that's already been asked 100s of times) by people that know their shit. Please do this before posting any question you have
Tips and tricksLot's of good stuff in here.
Preparing grain spawn What to do with that spawn? Coir prep Tek
If you plan on asking about lighting in the future NotAHacker will probably copy and paste this to you so here's it in advance Lighting requirements of mushrooms
Good things to know are there's a box for "trusted cultivators" in the advanced search engine when you click on search posts. This gives you replies by only people with the TC tag.
Good current members to listen to are NotAHacker420 and Frank(from the above links) They're around a lot and their advice is solid.
Some pictures might help us to turn around your grow situation otherwise the above info is the best I can do.
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: bodhisatta]
#19117808 - 11/10/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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bodhisatta 
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19117834 - 11/10/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Looks like you're fruiting in a shot gun chamber. 1/4 inch holes two inches apart in a grid pattern on all 6 sides of the tub? 4-6 inches of perlite and it's elevated somehow?
Did you mix your spawn(grain) with coir+verm or did you just put coir+verm on top of the grain? was it pasteurized, it still smells like only mushrooms?
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: bodhisatta]
#19117852 - 11/10/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah i did shotgun style with the perlite. The casings smell like mushrooms. They don't smell like anything else that i can tell. I mixed the spawn with the coir/verm and then put more coir/verm on top. I did pasteurize the coir/verm.
Edited by noob1303 (11/10/13 10:48 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19117864 - 11/10/13 10:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
noob1303 said: I give FAE about 3-5 times a day
yeah i did shotgun style with the perlite. The casings smell like mushrooms. They don't smell like anything else that i can tell. I mixed the spawn with the coir/verm and then put more coir/verm on top. I did pasteurize the coir/verm.
FAE is a constant thing. You can't give FAE as fae is always going on. A proper SGFC is doing FAE constantly. Fanning it out is just to lower the RH so that the misting you do can evaporate. FAE in reality is happening to be a few exchanges of air per hour in a SGFC.
Everything sounds good. You could try watering it around the edges but I would wait for someone else to weigh in about that since I've never "bottom watered" a sub before.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/10/13 10:52 PM)
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Wingman
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19117889 - 11/10/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see that there are many more pins on the edges of the trays. The humidity is highest there. I'm guessing the mycelium is pinning there preferentially because of the higher humidity. You might consider a plastic covering with some holes punched in to increase humidity on top, then take it off once there are a good number of pins.
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LiquidGlass
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: Wingman]
#19117953 - 11/10/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do you mist it?
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19117971 - 11/10/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I do mist some. From all the research i have done i couldnt get a definitive answer to the necessity of misting in my situation, so i have been hesitant to mist much.
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LiquidGlass
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19118043 - 11/10/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bluing can be due to too dry of a substrate
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19119465 - 11/11/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So would it be good to indirectly mist more? if so how many times a day? i have also heard that water can blue the substrate if directly applied. I am realizing its so hard to really know what really works without just trial and error.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19119478 - 11/11/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It looks like the substrate wasn't fully colonized, and you pulled it too quick into fruiting. Also the mushrooms seem to be only coming out of the dark deep corners full of moisture on the bottom as opposed to the dry top layer.
I donno thats just my opinion though
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (11/11/13 08:58 AM)
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Wydue Wanano
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: bodhisatta]
#19119503 - 11/11/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Neither coir nor verm are nutritive, and they are certainly casing materials, not bulk substrates.
Check the 50/50+ casing guide on the forums, you'll see what I mean.
To Kiya_Star427: Thank you , I am still a complete scrub (have only managed to acquire my first fruits in the last week) but I try to be as thorough as possible in my reading/research.
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
Edited by Wydue Wanano (11/11/13 09:25 AM)
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Kiya_Star427
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wow Wydue nice posts man, I'm definitely going to have to rep 5 stars for that, and for the other post that you made on the jar not fully colonizing due to bacteria build up on the bottom corner.
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (11/11/13 09:13 AM)
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Rubestoad
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Quote:
Wydue Wanano said: Neither coir nor verm are nutritive, and they are certainly casing materials, not bulk substrates.
Check the 50/50+ casing guide on the forums, you'll see what I mean.

Incorrect about the coir man. Not only is it nutritive but it's also a very popular bulk sub. Verm i believe has only minerals in it so whole it's not as nutritive as coir it does provide a little. And verm is used in most hpoo and coir bulk sub teks
-------------------- Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: Rubestoad]
#19119563 - 11/11/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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^ I don't know about that, according to this site even peat moss isn't nutritive, although I would never ever use peat moss as casing, thats just asking for trouble.
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Wydue Wanano
MUH SCIENCE



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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: Rubestoad]
#19119583 - 11/11/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whoooooops, I just forum searched and you are correct, coir is nutritive. I swear I saw a TC post from god-knows-when saying it wasn't, my bad.
Also apparently verm can be nutritive, as I just saw where someone inoculated *just* vermiculite and some myc grew.
EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIE
-------------------- W'sup, I'm a fourth year chem major. Got chemistry questions? Ask me! I know the most about physical and organic chemistry.
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Kiya_Star427
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^ you know but if you buy a miracle grow perlite even for example i think they even add nutritive to that and thats perlite. So maybe it depends on the brand, but other than that as far as I know, I remember hearing this from RR's lets grow mushrooms. I'm pretty sure he explains it there how coir has no nutritive and neither does peat moss
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (11/11/13 09:39 AM)
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Rubestoad
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Peat moss is used for a casing coir is not
-------------------- Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: Rubestoad]
#19119620 - 11/11/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So the whats ideal to top you sub with? peat moss or just plain verm?
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19119631 - 11/11/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do half Verm and half coir, peat moss is from the ground and carry's so much bacteria and fungus.
60/40 Verm and Coco Coir Casing is what I believe you want, confirm with the guys though
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (11/11/13 09:46 AM)
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Rubestoad
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19119649 - 11/11/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am just a parrot repeating info I have learned from hours of reading on here. I have never cased anything so can't help you there. Use the search but don't put the words right in the box on the main pg.
Click the words "search forums" on the top right of the search box and refine it. Search casing.....check the trusted cultivators box.....and put the number 2 in years box.
Doing that for every search will get you the most reliable info.
-------------------- Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
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SpitballJedi
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: Rubestoad]
#19119678 - 11/11/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Coir is a great substrate material. People used to think it was non-nutritive for mycology purposes, but it turns out they were all wrong.
You may need some extra time for colonizing that coir.
OP, your subs are dry on top. This is one of the difficulties of using pans inside a SGFC.
It's got some bluing, but it will start yellowing as it dries out more.
Treat it like a cake. Mist till it glistens with moisture. Fan a little. Once it no longer glistens, mist and fan again.
There is a magic moment when your cakes no longer glisten, but are obviously not dry. This is where you want to mist. Same holds true for your trays.
I would put a thin, PF Cake-like layer of vermiculite on top. In my experience, exposed coir drys faster than exposed vermiculite and grain doesn't hold water very well at all.
Your trays may have already lost a lot of water. If they feel light, and I suspect they do, then pour some water right over the top. Let the tray absorb the water for about 2 hours and then pour of the excess. Then add the vermiculite and start your mist and fan routine.
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bodhisatta 
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Quote:
Wydue Wanano said: Neither coir nor verm are nutritive, and they are certainly casing materials, not bulk substrates.
Check the 50/50 casing guide on the forums, you'll see what I mean.
To Kiya_Star427: Thank you , I am still a complete scrub (have only managed to acquire my first fruits in the last week) but I try to be as thorough as possible in my reading/research.
Just no, Coir and actually even verm is nutritive to mycellium. Verm has minerals and mycellium use minerals just like how we add gypsum
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
mpd said: I beg to differ. Vermiculite is not nutritious. Mushrooms might attach themselves to vermiculite, but they aren't feeding on it IMVHO.
This is flat-out wrong. Check your facts before posting opinion based on limited knowledge as fact.
Fungi evolved before plants. Exactly what do you think they were feeding on besides solid rock with energy supplied from the sun?
Every noob who has ever grown brf cakes through a few flushes has watched them shrink by 50% or more. Since they're 2/3 vermiculite, exactly what do you think is being consumed if it's not the minerals?
If as you(wrongly) assume that fungi isn't digesting rock, exactly why do growers report increased benefits such as vigor and harvest weight from using vermiculite, calcium carbonate, and gypsum? RR
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Coir is a great substrate material. People used to think it was non-nutritive for mycology purposes, but it turns out they were all wrong.
You may need some extra time for colonizing that coir.
OP, your subs are dry on top. This is one of the difficulties of using pans inside a SGFC.
It's got some bluing, but it will start yellowing as it dries out more.
Treat it like a cake. Mist till it glistens with moisture. Fan a little. Once it no longer glistens, mist and fan again.
There is a magic moment when your cakes no longer glisten, but are obviously not dry. This is where you want to mist. Same holds true for your trays.
I would put a thin, PF Cake-like layer of vermiculite on top. In my experience, exposed coir drys faster than exposed vermiculite and grain doesn't hold water very well at all.
Your trays may have already lost a lot of water. If they feel light, and I suspect they do, then pour some water right over the top. Let the tray absorb the water for about 2 hours and then pour of the excess. Then add the vermiculite and start your mist and fan routine.

 I would try straight watering rather than misting to get that thing rehydrated. Then mist from there on out.
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spacechildo
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Coir is a great substrate material. People used to think it was non-nutritive for mycology purposes, but it turns out they were all wrong.
You may need some extra time for colonizing that coir.
OP, your subs are dry on top. This is one of the difficulties of using pans inside a SGFC.
It's got some bluing, but it will start yellowing as it dries out more.
Treat it like a cake. Mist till it glistens with moisture. Fan a little. Once it no longer glistens, mist and fan again.
There is a magic moment when your cakes no longer glisten, but are obviously not dry. This is where you want to mist. Same holds true for your trays.
I would put a thin, PF Cake-like layer of vermiculite on top. In my experience, exposed coir drys faster than exposed vermiculite and grain doesn't hold water very well at all.
Your trays may have already lost a lot of water. If they feel light, and I suspect they do, then pour some water right over the top. Let the tray absorb the water for about 2 hours and then pour of the excess. Then add the vermiculite and start your mist and fan routine.


Except I wouldn't add more verm. Just mist when it doesn't glisten anymore. fan after mist.
Also, discard all the other info given, coir has nutes, verm has nutes, also read some other crap that was total BS. bodhisatta was spot on his first reply though.
That's the thing about the shroomery, so many stupid flat out wrong posts.
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PussyFart
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: spacechildo]
#19120551 - 11/11/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Coir is nutritious, so does verm.
Peat have very little, if anything that is useful to mycellium...this is why we use it as casing layer material.
If you are growing any cube besides PE, a casing layer is not really needed.
Casing layers for bulk PE has proven to yield less blobs on the first flush, and give a very even pinset.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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LiquidGlass
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: PussyFart]
#19121069 - 11/11/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coir is NOT non-nutritious. I don't know why we keep hearing that. Coir has at least as much nutrition for fungi as cow manure, and comes close to rivaling horse manure. It will contaminate, but not easily if you pasteurize it properly. I doubt lc will inoculate coir or manure either one. You'll need to use your lc to inoculate grains or brf, then spawn that to the coir. RR
Quote: Wrong. That's nonesense. Coir is as nutritious as horse manure, and is not suitable for use as a casing layer due to the nutrition unless massively diluted with vermiculite. That's why coir casings overlay so often. Coir is far better suited as a substrate, and there is not one single shred of evidence that coir does not deliver superior potency in cubensis. RR
The prevailing wisdom is that verm is non-nutritious to fungi, but remember that only a few years ago, the same was thought of coir. By observation, I've come to the conclusion that the fungi is digesting 'something' from the verm that aids in growth and vigor.
Hardwood sawdust holds the same amount of moisture as verm, but when growing wood loving species on pf cakes, substituting the verm for sawdust results in smaller, poorly developed fruits. I've also seen pure verm casings get overran with trich and cobweb, and even had a bag of verm in my garage that got wet and was completely colonized with molds.
We know that adding gypsum will increase the size and vigor of fruits, so perhaps verm holds similar ingredients/minerals? RR
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19121589 - 11/11/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The pan with the one fruit on top is still pretty heavy, what if i remove the pan and just set on foil. would the cake possibly do better?
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19121602 - 11/11/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also if i pour water in the pans to dehydrate how much is needed?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19122087 - 11/11/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
noob1303 said: The pan with the one fruit on top is still pretty heavy, what if i remove the pan and just set on foil. would the cake possibly do better?
possibly but your results may vary. Look in my signature. I put mine right onto foil. Now some people do fruit in trays and have success. It's what works for you really. So long as your SGFC is built properly it should automatically be dialed in unless you have some fan running that's throwing it off or being to close to a forced air vent.
Quote:
noob1303 said: Also if i pour water in the pans to dehydrate how much is needed?
you want to hydrate it.  I would use maybe something like 8 ounces and let it sit for a couple hours then try to pour off what ever didn't get absorbed.
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: bodhisatta]
#19125387 - 11/12/13 08:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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ha, yeah i meant hydrate. Thanks a lot for the info. I will post more pics in a couple of days.
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noob1303
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19151102 - 11/17/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I added water to 2 of the trays and took on cake completely out of the pan and placed it on foil.They all have seemed to respond with some growth. The two cakes that had almost nothing now have one large fruit each . The other pan that had lots of fruits growing is still growing lots of fruits but they are kind of small. will to much light stunt growth? i noticed that after on day of no light the fruits really grew alot.
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cronicr



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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19151295 - 11/17/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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fruits tend to do th most expanding during the dark cycle, too much light may slow them down a bit but i can''t see too much harm from it(i've left my light on for a couple days before by accident, nuthing went wrong)
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SpitballJedi
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Re: No pins on top or fruits [Re: noob1303]
#19153046 - 11/18/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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noob1303
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