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Loui
Clovis Man from12,000 BP

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 22
Loc: Neither here nor there
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Does Smoking Risk Failure?
#1911608 - 09/13/03 01:14 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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This guy I know has been having a little problem with cobwebs destroying his casings. He wonders if maybe smoking in the same room as his casings could be the cause of this or any other problem he has or could have?
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LiL_KuSsH
Lost In The Trip


Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 3,001
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Deleted [Re: Loui]
#1911614 - 09/13/03 01:16 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by administrator
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Tremor1127
Mental Member


Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 3,404
Loc: In a Van Down By the Rive...
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Loui]
#1911616 - 09/13/03 01:16 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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LiL_KuSsH
Lost In The Trip


Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 3,001
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Post deleted by administrator
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: LiL_KuSsH]
#1911811 - 09/13/03 02:42 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Smoke settles as dust and dust has a habit of attaching itself to other materials.
In short, smoking will increase the propensity of contamination as pathogenic spores have "particle-purchase" and will precipitate to surfaces -- i.e. the surfaces you work on.
Don't smoke in the grow room or the shroom room. Keep both clean.
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912019 - 09/13/03 05:27 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bull Shit you have no proof ! please don't eat here while i'm smoking .
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912032 - 09/13/03 06:07 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know enough that there isn't a greenhouse in the Oz hort industry that allows smoking (as industry standards call for *OH&S as well as *IPM). Smoking is also banned in the Oz mushroom production industry as it falls under the same ag rulings. *OH&S = Occupational Health & Safety *IPM = Intergrated Pest Management
IPM btw also takes into consideration hygiene of culture. I suggest you read up about it in some ag/hort sites.
Point of the matter is this, smoke in your grow if you want...just accept the higher pathogen rate that will go with it and the pollution too. IMO, treat your grow like the kitchen, keep it clean, go smoke outside.
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912043 - 09/13/03 06:25 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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my pan cyans don't seem to mind . it's because of you damn liberals, we can't even smoke in a pool hall anymore .
Please don't eat while I'm smoking .
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912047 - 09/13/03 06:31 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dunno about the "liberals" bit, I'm in Australia so the American political definitions don't apply, esp. as the Liberal Party (the party that's federally in power atm) is the conservative party.
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912060 - 09/13/03 07:03 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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don't matter . i'm talking about the whining sniveling hand ringers that are in every country, that want to restrict our rights to promote their own political agenda . and don't tell me you don't have them in Australia .they are everywhere . and, we better quit this or SK will send this thread to OTD .
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912084 - 09/13/03 07:31 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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From an Australian hort production industry perspective, IPM alone bans smoking in closed artificial production facilities i.e. polyhouses, greenhouses & growrooms (inc. mushrooms). It has nothing to do with politics, more to do with bio-product-integrity which ultimately reflects in profits. IPM actually saves growers money as it deals with cultural hygiene, pesticide management and crop resistance...to name a few.
As for smoking bans in places of hospitality, such as bars, clubs, pool halls ect...that's political, though the case for it has a sound argument medically speaking. Not that I care, I don't drink alcohol and I find drunk people the worst of all. I'll only go to restaurants and yep, I like them smoke free.
But by all means (though I wouldn't) smoke around your grow as that's your call. It is after all your grow and no one can tell you how to run it or operate it, unless of course they pay the bills or own the house.
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912121 - 09/13/03 08:18 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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well, that's just too cool . kill me with kindness . i will say this once again . you have no proof . yes, it is well documented that smoking is bad for humans . but mushrooms don't smoke . show me evidence that second hand smoke will damage my crop . i don't blow smoke at my mushrooms . the air in my house is refreshed every time i open the door . and a green house without ventilation is a terrarium . again show me .
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UncleMike
Visionary


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 964
Loc: S.W. Virginia
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912126 - 09/13/03 08:25 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think thee are more smokers in the world than non-smokers especially if you ad pot, coke, meth, salvia, and anyother drug you can smoke....
-------------------- Live each day like it will be your last, tomorrow my never come. SporeSmart
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Bi0TeK
elephant man

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 3,002
Loc: Yorkshire Moors, Great Br...
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912152 - 09/13/03 08:36 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Grow Ganoderma Lucidum (Reishi) next to your shrooms. They are anti carcinogenic so your shrooms shouldn't get cancer from second hand smoke 
-------------------- PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Bi0TeK]
#1912206 - 09/13/03 09:21 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Where did this "mushroom cancer" spring from Bi0Tek? An obvious spin to obfuscate the thread. The issue put forward was on the basis of IPM, which is implemented in the Oz hort/ag scene. But by all means re-invent the industrial wheel if you so please. I don't care whether you smoke or not smoke in proximity of your projects...after all, they're your projects. I simply couldn't care less, so at risk of repeating (and as said in my ^above post), smoke if you want. Read the ^above post and this paragraph again to sink it in. You see, we all have choices, even when deanofmean erroneously believes his choices are in peril by me, regardless of the fact that I'm not a US citizen and therefore I can't vote for change in the US (a place apparently where liberals appear his root woe). Yet somehow (due to his argumentative policy) he feels licensed to project his ethnocentric global/political views, based on his perception of "US pestilent liberals", as the sum-ubiquitous cause of all his evils (so I must be part of it despite residing thousands of km's away). Ho-hum. deanofmean, hope the Aussie pans are doing ok for you.
Edited by Starter (09/13/03 09:34 AM)
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912237 - 09/13/03 09:47 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aussie pans are doing grate, thank you . i still don't like Hillary Clinton's views .
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Bi0TeK
elephant man

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 3,002
Loc: Yorkshire Moors, Great Br...
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912245 - 09/13/03 09:54 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Where did this "mushroom cancer" spring from Bi0Tek?
The depths of my warped mind.
Quote:
An obvious spin to obfuscate the thread.
Not at all, just my attempt at injecting some humour into a otherwise dull thread.
-------------------- PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912254 - 09/13/03 10:00 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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and i don't blame you for that, but you still haven't proven that carbonmonoxide is detrimental to fungus .
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Bi0TeK]
#1912267 - 09/13/03 10:12 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bi0TeK said: Not at all, just my attempt at injecting some humour into a otherwise dull thread.
dull thread ? well, if you ain't havin' fun, go sit in the truck .
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912299 - 09/13/03 10:35 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deanofmean said: and i don't blame you for that, but you still haven't proven that carbonmonoxide is detrimental to fungus .
I already gave the reason in my first post. But you went off on some odd-ball anti-liberal rant on anti-smoking politics that means nothing to me. It would be like me discussing Aussie politics at you or more rediculously, projecting you're part of them.
Quote:
In short, smoking will increase the propensity of contamination as pathogenic spores have "particle-purchase" and will precipitate to surfaces -- i.e. the surfaces you work on.
The inaugural post of this thread speaks of cobweb being a problem on his casings. That's a ubiquitous spore and in mushroom culture a definite pest. If it can hitch a ride on dust particles from smoke which ultimately precipitate to surfaces (i.e. his casings, as casings are a surface), all the more power to the cobweb and woe to thee. In grow rooms, botrytis (a pathogen spore of many plants) is the issue and it too will attach to dust, be that dust from smoke as well. This is why growers use carbon scrubbers, ozone and ionizer generators to pull the dust from the air to reduce the threat...and in fact, they exist too in HEPA filter systems. The "shroomerists" are simply jumping on tech/methods used in wider ag and even in hospitals. Dust carries disease, even with humans too. Typhus is a good example. Cleaner environments esp. in closed environments (where pollution ppm is of issue) generally make for healthier produce. It's that simple. I can't see why there's an argument on what's so straight forward? It's the standard in wider ag (at least in Oz and guide lined in IPM). Now If you can smoke where you grow and all is rosy, all the more power to you. BioTeK, thanks for being honest. Edited to include the quoted post question from deanofmean who pulled it from this thread for reasons unknown?
Edited by Starter (09/13/03 10:58 AM)
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912393 - 09/13/03 11:07 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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well, the only answer i can say to this is, don't close in the environment, or don't blow dust in an enclosed environment . common sence IMO . i still don't see a conection between smoke and contamination .
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THATS iT!
mellow
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 225
Loc: In the misty mountains o...
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912413 - 09/13/03 11:14 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mushrooms require fresh air circulting at a constant pace. If you can get the smoke out of the room in time I don't think it would hurt. Allthough there is no telling what crazy stuff grows on the infinent number of chemicals in cigarettes.
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Starter
Stranger


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912467 - 09/13/03 11:36 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deanofmean said: well, the only answer i can say to this is, don't close in the environment, or don't blow dust in an enclosed environment . common sence IMO . i still don't see a conection between smoke and contamination .
Spores attach to dust and the dust precipitates to surfaces and if there's an air current, the dust will go airborne again. So, get rid of the dust and you remove mass loads of spores. If you smoke, you increase the dust. Smoke settles as dust. Very easy to understand. No smoke = less dust. That's a fact. What am I missing in this circle talk?
If the facts of life hurt those that smoke, too bad. I'm a smoker myself and I accept the truth. Man, I only have to compare the inside of my PC tower where I choof on at the keyboard, to a PC in the backroom where no smoke ever happens...one is loaded in dust and the other not. I even lost a PIII mobo to dust load, it burned out!!
Ciggie smoke, bong smoke, burnt steak smoke, wood fire smoke...all means more dust. Dust carries the bad guys to settle on surfaces. I can't be any more simple on this.
I'm not saying smoke is the only source of dust, your exfoliation of skin is a big source too, same as if you have cats/dogs, but smoke (if you're a smoker or have a wood fire) sure cranks the dust loads.
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BatFly
captain obvious

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 375
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912473 - 09/13/03 11:38 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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ZYGOTE!!! what you ask? it's me, having the last word! check it out in a dictionary. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA ZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYGOTE!
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: THATS iT!]
#1912503 - 09/13/03 11:49 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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now see, there is another misconception . all that is really needed is a way for the heavier co2 to escape . gas exchange will take care of itself .
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: BatFly]
#1912541 - 09/13/03 12:01 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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BatFly, my point exactly .
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Starter]
#1912566 - 09/13/03 12:07 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Starter, you are argueing ash not smoke . i am done with this now .
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UncleMike
Visionary


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 964
Loc: S.W. Virginia
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912598 - 09/13/03 12:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Come on When I grew I always smoked in and around all of my babies....sometimes I would even give them a puff of my MJ just bloe a big ole hit into the chamber {lifts lid up real fast and gives them young 'uns a hefty toke} then after a little while I faned them...I swear I saw them smiling at me example of how they like MJ
-------------------- Live each day like it will be your last, tomorrow my never come. SporeSmart
Edited by UncleMike (09/13/03 12:24 PM)
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: THATS iT!]
#1912611 - 09/13/03 12:26 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
THATS iT! said: Mushrooms require fresh air circulting at a constant pace. If you can get the smoke out of the room in time I don't think it would hurt. Allthough there is no telling what crazy stuff grows on the infinent number of chemicals in cigarettes.
I keep my mushrooms completely closed off from the outside air. I fan them four times per day and have bountiful flushes.
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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Loui
Clovis Man from12,000 BP

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 22
Loc: Neither here nor there
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912622 - 09/13/03 12:29 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow, what happened to the thread.
He was wondering not only in terms of cobweb, but any other problem that may arise. Therefore, any suggestion made in this thread is valid. Trich has also blessed him with its presence quite often, though he attributes that to his mistakes in setup.
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GregHimself
Just a guyobssesed withshroomies.


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 936
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912631 - 09/13/03 12:32 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deanofmean said: now see, there is another misconception . all that is really needed is a way for the heavier co2 to escape . gas exchange will take care of itself .
So all my foaf really needs is one hole say on the top right side of his terrarium...and another on the bottom left side, and the air exchage will take care of itself? no more fanning?
-------------------- "The key to successful cultivation is to match the skills of the cultivator with the right strain on the proper substrate under ideal environmental conditions." Paul Stamets Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms(Third Edition)
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Anonymous
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1912644 - 09/13/03 12:38 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deanofmean said: don't matter . i'm talking about the whining sniveling hand ringers that are in every country, that want to restrict our rights to promote their own political agenda . and don't tell me you don't have them in Australia .they are everywhere . and, we better quit this or SK will send this thread to OTD .
yep we have the fuckers but they fly under the labour banner here.
Edited by lamblancer (09/13/03 12:47 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: UncleMike]
#1912656 - 09/13/03 12:42 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
UncleMike said: I think thee are more smokers in the world than non-smokers especially if you ad pot, coke, meth, salvia, and anyother drug you can smoke....
id love to kill the fucken marlboro man,he got me hooked on the shit ps:i know he's dead
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UncleMike
Visionary


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 964
Loc: S.W. Virginia
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: ]
#1912661 - 09/13/03 12:45 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lamblancer said:
Quote:
UncleMike said: I think thee are more smokers in the world than non-smokers especially if you ad pot, coke, meth, salvia, and anyother drug you can smoke....
id love to kill the fucken marlboro man,he got me hooked on the shit ps:i know he's dead
LOL ....you may be entitled to a law suite!
-------------------- Live each day like it will be your last, tomorrow my never come. SporeSmart
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Anonymous
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: UncleMike]
#1912677 - 09/13/03 12:51 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
UncleMike said:
Quote:
lamblancer said:
Quote:
UncleMike said: I think thee are more smokers in the world than non-smokers especially if you ad pot, coke, meth, salvia, and anyother drug you can smoke....
id love to kill the fucken marlboro man,he got me hooked on the shit ps:i know he's dead
LOL ....you may be entitled to a law suite!
you know i heard along the grape vine our government ie both the major parties* are trying to slip in a bill stopping my generation from suing when we start dying *no contest from the opposition who isnt in power
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Anonymous
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Loui]
#1912691 - 09/13/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I doubt the smoke is the problem but never know....I know I would never smoke around my shrooms...I go outside
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BatFly
captain obvious

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 375
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: ]
#1912726 - 09/13/03 01:09 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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what happens if you have an outside grow? smoke inside? hehe i soake, but not indoors only cause it stinks up the place.
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UncleMike
Visionary


Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 964
Loc: S.W. Virginia
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: BatFly]
#1912741 - 09/13/03 01:12 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BatFly said: what happens if you have an outside grow? smoke inside? hehe i soake, but not indoors only cause it stinks up the place.
Nothing like the smell of good 'ole cooked horse/cow shit in the Kitchen...."whats daddy cookin'?" "see son, that is smart gravy...taste it" "tastes like shit to me daddy!" "see you gettin' smater already, son!"
-------------------- Live each day like it will be your last, tomorrow my never come. SporeSmart
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LiL_KuSsH
Lost In The Trip


Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 3,001
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Post deleted by administrator
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BatFly
captain obvious

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 375
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: UncleMike]
#1912890 - 09/13/03 02:15 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL! what a sadistic dad. ha.
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deanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: UncleMike]
#1912911 - 09/13/03 02:22 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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smart gravy...lololololololol i need sleep .
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Anonymous
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Hanky
wiffle bat.

Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: ]
#1913723 - 09/13/03 07:32 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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lamblancer said "yep we have the fuckers but they fly under the labour banner here. "
remember lamblancer...it was the australian labor party that gave us decriminalised cannabis in 3 states something the right wing nazi's would never do.
-------------------- Coaster is an idiot... [quote]Coaster said: but i thnk everything thats pure is white? [/quote]
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Ekstaza
stranger than most


Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 9 months, 22 days
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: deanofmean]
#1914097 - 09/13/03 09:52 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deanofmean said: Starter, you are argueing ash not smoke . i am done with this now .
You do realize that smoke is a solid disolved in a gas. Therfore smoke is basically ashes disolved in the gasses produced by combustion. Thinking of it that way kind of makes me want to quit smoking. Damn, I wish smoking was good for you.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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DanKnugget
Mysterious Traveller


Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,074
Loc: On a boat
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Ekstaza]
#1914191 - 09/13/03 10:35 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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hehe, that would be quite odd, if it was good for you.
-------------------- My 3 proverbs: 1. School is for people who don't know stuff. 2. Jobs are for losers. 3. Reading is for people with nothing better to do.
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Ekstaza
stranger than most


Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 9 months, 22 days
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: DanKnugget]
#1914254 - 09/13/03 11:03 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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It would sure solve my problem though. A pack a day addiction. At least I don't smoke as much as I used to. It used to be three packs a day and that was the Marlboro Reds. Now I only smoke the lights. I tried to go to ultralights, but that's just pissin' in the wind.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Does Smoking Risk Failure? [Re: Loui]
#1914700 - 09/14/03 03:58 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dean of mean : 'now see, there is another misconception . all that is really needed is a way for the heavier co2 to escape . gas exchange will take care of itself . '
Thank you for demonstrating that you have never grown mushrooms before - if you believe this, it explains why you spell the word 'great' as 'grate'. If you try this non-fanning trick on pans you wont get very far at all... not that you'd know. Its because your a product of inferior neurology - did you know that a recent study indicated that many conservatives have pathological neurology. Kind of a worry really - most conservative politicians in the US do not smoke by the way, but sit on the boards of the bigwig tobacco companies so that dumb bastards like you can smoke and complain about liberals whilst conservatives ruin your lungs. Quite amusing really - ignorance is bliss.
--------------------
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