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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dstark]
    #19075517 - 11/02/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so what exactly is the point of putting the substance in water and on the special plate and soaked in liquid so it lifts up the plate?

looks like it just gets tested with normal reagent, so what exactly is going on there? also it has a specific weight in substance added to water but an unmeasured amount sample taken from that and tested, that part doesn't make sense.

pm tlc but i don't think he is on often so maybe someone else can explain this, i'm intrigued...


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: SurReality] * 4
    #19075998 - 11/02/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Look up Thin Layer Chromotography if you want more detailed info.

TLC is the most basic form of chromotography and is used mostly to see if a sample is a singular compound or mixture and in some cases (as this one) it can be compared to the results of a known compound to help to ID that compound. Also in theory it can somewhat identify the % of a compound present in a sample if you have enough preexisting reference points to compare it too.

Basics of TLC:
Every compound has a VERY specific solubility in a given solvent
TLC uses a glass plate coated in a neutral substance (silica, gypsum, etc)
A sample to be tested is dissolved and a drop placed at the starting line of the plate near the bottom.
The plate is then put in a container vertically with the bottom just barely resting in a solvent
The solvent will move up the plate via absorbtion (think dipping a piece of paper in a liquid and watching it rise)
As the solvent passes the starting line it will pick up the sample
As the solvent moves up the plate it requires more energy to keep going
Less soluble compounds will stop moving with the solvent first
More soluble compounds will keep moving with the solvent until they reach their cutoff point.
At the point the compounds stop moving there will be a spot form
Some test heat it up and "burn off" the organic matter in the spot so you can visibly see it. In this test they use various UV chemicals to make the spots visible under UV light.

Determining if a sample is pure or a mix:
If there is a single compound there will be 1 spot since it has a precise solubility
If there are 2 compounds there will be 2 spots
If there are multiple compounds there will be multiple spots and sometimes streaks when the solubilties are very similar

Determining what a sample is:
First you need a pure reference sample and you run the test.
Next you test your sample using the EXACT same perameters, same solvents, same amount of solvents, same amount of compound to test, same size dot to place on the TLC plate
Since everything in the test is exactly the same as the reference test if it is a pure sample it will have spot in the exact same place and exact same size as the test you ran for reference.
If there are multiple spots on the test you can verify the spot of the compound you thought it was and possibly ID the other compounds if you also have reference samples for them.
The test can only ID compounds in which you have ran the test with already known samples using the exact same conditions.

Determining the purity of a sample:
This applies pretty much only to mixtures (ie plant extracts, tainted samples, etc)
Lets say you test plant for DMT content.
You test a pure DMT sample and have a reference with a single spot.
You would basically do a quick extraction of the DMT with a solvent.
You would use that extract as your test sample and place it on the starting line on the plate.
When the test is done there should be a spot in the exact place of the reference spot to verify it does contain DMT.
Now the size of the spot will very depending on DMT concentration, if it was 100% dmt it would be identical to your sample, if it was less then 100% it would be smaller.
Now if you run the reference test with various % of DMT (made by dilluting a pure sample so only 1 spot appears still) you could have references for 5%, 10%, 25%, etc.
So in theory if you had reference samples for each desired % you could verify the DMT content of the plant.

What TLConscious is doing:
There is a lot of science, complexity, and the need to test known samples for TLC to be used to ID compounds.
TLConscious is basically running a lot of reference samples using very specific perameters for various drugs and also cutting agents.
They are packaging together a kit with the EXACT things they are using so your test can be done EXACTLY the same.
So basically all you have to do is open the kit, run the test on your compound using the instructions, then match the results to results of their reference tests (probably online but could be printed) so you now if you compound is pure and also what it is.


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
    #19076058 - 11/02/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

thanks a bunch this was very helpful.


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OfflineTLConscious
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: SurReality]
    #19088672 - 11/05/13 04:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hello everybody!

Sorry for the delayed posting here, we`ve been very busy lately and didn`t have time to check the forums.

The donations are slowly coming in. It`s 3 weeks to go now, and we still have a long way to go, but we just had some major good news that in the next few days one person will most likely deposit a large amount of money putting us significantly closer to the end goal.. So any small donation at this point is very appreciated and important to us!

Also another great news is that we worked out a cheaper starter version of the kit for 80 euros, nearly half the price, for those with a tight budget!  Feel free to check our page here:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/substance-analysis-kits-down-with-adulterants


Thank you for answering questions for us regarding TLC.. Indeed TLC technique is significantly more thorough than only reagent testings. From now on we will post more often now so feel free to ask any further questions.


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Offlinepetrovia
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First post [Re: TLConscious]
    #19092156 - 11/05/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hello everyone, Great Idea hope this thread is not considered dead and aggro  the lot by posting here....(last post 21 days) any whom. looking forward to checking out this communities thread and learnig some science... good night everyone.


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #19092439 - 11/05/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't read through this thread so I apologise if this is already covered in detail elsewhere but I'm curious as to how many uses I could get out of this testing kit? Considering the price I'd be hoping for many, many testings.


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: birdland]
    #19092948 - 11/05/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

petrovia said:
Hello everyone, Great Idea hope this thread is not considered dead and aggro  the lot by posting here....(last post 21 days) any whom. looking forward to checking out this communities thread and learnig some science... good night everyone.




You only looked at the first page of posts, it started ~21 days ago. Prior to your post the last post was 15 hours before that :P

Quote:

birdland said:
I haven't read through this thread so I apologise if this is already covered in detail elsewhere but I'm curious as to how many uses I could get out of this testing kit? Considering the price I'd be hoping for many, many testings.




TLC said the full kit comes with stuff for 50 tests. There is a starter kit on the indiegogo page for 80 euros that comes with 1 less UV light and only 35 tests. Those prices include all the equipment you need as well as the actual plates and solvents (2 uv lights, containers, etc). TLC said he would offer refills that would come out for ~1 euro per test which is a fair price IMO.


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
    #19093031 - 11/05/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

is this just a regular black light?? because i think all i need to do this are those plates.

i want to try these out on some mystery chems sold as mdma...


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: SurReality]
    #19093381 - 11/06/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

TLConscious offers 2 UV lights that emit different waves of light which will make different things fluoresce, sometimes the sample being analyzed and sometimes you will add a fluorescent pigment that wil make the plate glow and the sample will be a black spot.

You can make TLC plates out of pieces of glass covered in a thin layer of plaster and use various reagents to make the spots show up (with or without blacklight). This would work for testing if it is a pure or mixed sample but without a known sample tested using the exact same setup you couldn't identify what is on the plate. Using homemade plates makes having a reference sample hard since it is very hard to pour consistently even plates. TLConscious provides actual lab plates and more importantly will provide the reference test for you to compare your tests too. Without those reference tests you will just have a spot on a plate.

I can go into more detail about TLC basics if you want but I'd prefer to either do it via PM or in its own thread so this one doesn't get hijacked.


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Smushroom]
    #19093409 - 11/06/13 12:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

how many substances does TLC have references for?


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OfflineTLConscious
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: SurReality]
    #19094108 - 11/06/13 05:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We have access to standards of most substances that are commonly used (tryptamines, phenetylamines, opiates, RCs, stimulants, etc) and their adulterants

Feel free to ask us about some specific substance, if we have info on that or not.


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: TLConscious]
    #19094844 - 11/06/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

what kind of plate is the standards on? thickness and florescence of the silica?

i don't think all the plates available are the same. i'm looking at some that are "EMD Silica Gel 60 F254 Precoated TLC Plates, 250um"


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OfflineMushroomin
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: SurReality]
    #19100129 - 11/07/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:ruggedwink:


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*The above post is entirely fictional. It was written under duress, intoxication, and was a huge mistake. This post does not represent the views or opinions of this user or anyone. Any material—spoken, written, photographed or otherwise—contained herein shall be disregarded and considered erroneous. Under no circumstances shall this user be liable for any loss, damage, liability, expense, stroke of bad luck, or legal quandary incurred or suffered that is claimed to have resulted from the use of this Information, including, without limitation, any fault, error, omission, interruption or delay with respect thereto henceforth. Anyone attempting to comprehend, interpret, or respond to the above post should consider themselves forewarned.


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Offlinedontknow
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Mushroomin]
    #19100455 - 11/07/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Mushroom do you actually think your sig would do anything if it came to that?

it won't


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dontknow]
    #19100471 - 11/07/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

well it does appear the content he posted is from a fictional movie.


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OfflineMushroomin
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: dontknow]
    #19100615 - 11/07/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dontknow said:
Mushroom do you actually think your sig would do anything if it came to that?

it won't




nah. They're just silly words. I'd seen a few "disclaimer" sigs and I thought I'd try my luck at one.

But when I first read your question I thought you were referring to the gif of Eastwood, and if it "came to that," I think he would probably just bust some fools open.


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*The above post is entirely fictional. It was written under duress, intoxication, and was a huge mistake. This post does not represent the views or opinions of this user or anyone. Any material—spoken, written, photographed or otherwise—contained herein shall be disregarded and considered erroneous. Under no circumstances shall this user be liable for any loss, damage, liability, expense, stroke of bad luck, or legal quandary incurred or suffered that is claimed to have resulted from the use of this Information, including, without limitation, any fault, error, omission, interruption or delay with respect thereto henceforth. Anyone attempting to comprehend, interpret, or respond to the above post should consider themselves forewarned.


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Mushroomin]
    #19100778 - 11/07/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

clint eastwood was actually a girl


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: Mushroomin]
    #19114423 - 11/10/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hey this isn't stickies anymore so here's what I think..

I have this idea for a harm reduction business.. If i get you and 30000 other people to donate to my idea of a business to recieve a product that I may or may not have already spec'd out.. Only after I reach this ridiculous amount of capitol to start said business will I be able to actually send out any products or fan fair.
Here's a link to my thrown together website and here's a link to a legitimate site ill take the donations..  Remember though if I don't reach this ridiculous amount of capital you'll get a refund

I can't believe no one else has even attempted to think this idea


Great idea!  I'd start businesses all day long if I didn't have to involve any of my personal assets




P.s. after pm a mod about this early in the thread when it was first stickies

I really do think this was meant as an insult to the psychedelic community


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: friskie]
    #19114451 - 11/10/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i thought you were in jail


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Invisiblefriskie
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Re: Substance Analysis Kits: Down with adulterants! [Re: SurReality]
    #19114767 - 11/10/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

LOL for what??  I'm a good guy man.


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