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OfflineHostDisorder
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Every tripper has HPPD?
    #19114449 - 11/10/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

HPPD obviously varies in severity, and most have it mild, so mild in fact that I've only just this second thought to stare at the carpet to see if I have it, and, well, I definitely have something, and I am a very inexperienced user with a mere 3 trips under my belt.

I'm currently drug free, my last trip was 6 months ago and up until 4 weeks ago I was a daily marijuana user. At the moment my cannabis usage is zero.

When I read text on the shroomery, and then stare at the carpet, I will get shifting lines that linger until I blink. I also have many coloured dots flying around in the light, and a static that covers things. I believe this to be mild and pretty insignificant HPPD that doesn't really interfere with anything.

My query is, as much as we hate to admit it, do we all experience at least mild physical perceptual changes? Is this just what goes with this type of drug usage? Is this simply what one has to accept when one even occasionally decides to drastically alter consciousness with dr00gz?

TLDR; is HPPD in all its varying forms something all trippers experience at some point?


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Offlineegodeathflux
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19114459 - 11/10/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nope. Been tripping on various things for 18+ years and never encountered it. :shrug:


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19114476 - 11/10/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I had a lot of HPPD symptoms when tripping often

but havent tripped in a few months, only notice very very mild HPPD symptoms now if I stare at a wall i.e.

else no HPPD symptoms except tracers when just going from light out into the dark

seems they are temporary for most people
when I smoked weed it would get much more intense, so stopped...
they intensify with frequent use/high doses often, doesnt happen if you moderate usage really

or that is just my experience... much less after tripping less frequent
its almost 99% back to normal, hardly anything to notice unless I look for it for a few mins
and used to take lots of LSD in high doses

when I used most LSD everything outside would warp/rotate for a while after, days/months
the pavement .. anything there was much light on
and it was hard watching tv/reading due to it for a while after... letters would look weird, no prob now

but I dont watch tv anyway :wink:

I dont think the hppd symptoms have given me any problems yet
except for few weeks after a very high dose once.. was hard to read there for 1-2 weeks at least
else its very mild, dont notice it
done LSD 150 times or so
I usually always plan trips on fridays/holidays, so my head can get some time to feel right again


Edited by lessismore (11/10/13 12:06 PM)


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19114483 - 11/10/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OP I have the same thing except maybe a little more but it really doesn't bother me. If I stare at my carpet and just let my eyes relax, the two shades of green will bleed into one shade and real staticky too. Things slowly move in my peripherals but when I get high it potentiates the symptoms. I've only tripped a total of 10 times or so, 6-7 on shrooms and 3 on acid.. but in a 2 month period when I first tried them.


Also very strong Afterimages if looking at light for a few seconds when it's dark outside, then turning away... the shape or design from the car light will linger for as long as I pay attention to it, and it becomes very vivid dancing along when I change directions of focus.


Edited by theRAPeutic (11/10/13 11:46 AM)


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: HostDisorder] * 1
    #19114517 - 11/10/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A lot of what people claim is HPPD, is really just optical illusions.  I remember as a kid staring at those magic eye pictures trying to find the image and seeing similar stuff that others call HPPD.  I think some of it is never noticed until after people try psychedelics.  :2cents:


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: theRAPeutic]
    #19114532 - 11/10/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nope not really. My tracers are debatable. I only have then in areas of extreme contrast but they haven't gotten any better or worse since my first three trips (all of which were extremely weak). So it's hard to say if I had them before tripping. Since then I've tripped around 50 times on various substances anywhere from enough to cause mild patterning to full on visual blindness and have yet to encounter any noticeable degree of HPPD.

But who knows. It's been a few years since I've been drug free so i don't remember what my vision used to look like.


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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19114585 - 11/10/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My very minor (but annoying) HPPD symptoms were like this (see this old thread). It stopped after I stopped smoking cannabis, which I was doing daily.


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OfflineHostDisorder
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #19114640 - 11/10/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

physicist said:
A lot of what people claim is HPPD, is really just optical illusions.  I remember as a kid staring at those magic eye pictures trying to find the image and seeing similar stuff that others call HPPD.  I think some of it is never noticed until after people try psychedelics.  :2cents:




Definitely possible, ironically, I'm a hypochondriac myself, I wouldn't so anxious about the potential triggering of hppd if it wasnt for the prevalence of it all over the psychdelic community.


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19114772 - 11/10/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, different people have different opinions about HPPD.  For the majority of the community,  the after effects of psychedelics don't interfere with daily living.  I can only speak from my experience. Since I can remember, I was always fascinated with visual phenomena, and I don't think my vision is any different now compared to before I had psychedelics. YMMV.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19114805 - 11/10/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

My query is, as much as we hate to admit it, do we all experience at least mild physical perceptual changes?





Fuck no.  HPPD is highly overrated as a side effect.  What you probably have noticed is just the result of paying more attention to ordinary persistence of vision effects, something you can learn more about (and experience) with any decent resource that describes these kinds of optical illusions. :thumbup:

BTW I've tripped on shrooms over a thousand times, and often enough for successive days.  If that shit was gonna get me it would have already. :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------

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OfflineThe Centre
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19114976 - 11/10/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, long before I ever had taken any drugs, I had stuff that a whole lot of people would call 'HPPD'. Ha, just look at Indian and Middle Eastern (especially Persian) art. One would swear that Paisly was invented by someone who took too much DMT.

I remember my uncle and I playing starcraft for hours, and when we went outside and looked at the grass, we could see the patterns of the units and buildings in the grass, a whole lot of them moving. The stuff we see in psychedelia is most definitely an inherent part of our brains.


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OfflineHostDisorder
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: The Centre]
    #19115040 - 11/10/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Centre said:
Dude, long before I ever had taken any drugs, I had stuff that a whole lot of people would call 'HPPD'. Ha, just look at Indian and Middle Eastern (especially Persian) art. One would swear that Paisly was invented by someone who took too much DMT.

I remember my uncle and I playing starcraft for hours, and when we went outside and looked at the grass, we could see the patterns of the units and buildings in the grass, a whole lot of them moving. The stuff we see in psychedelia is most definitely an inherent part of our brains.




Valid points, but there do seem to be quite a few genuine reports of people having walls breathe and objects melting way after the trip had subsided to the point where it's a problem. I myself am soon to embark upon my first exp with lsd (apparently renowned to trigger hppd) however, because of all his hppd talk I hear, it's lingering in my mind.

It really fucks you over man, even if this thing was completely fictitious, there's so many reports that before you even go into the trip, you're already expecting to get it.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19115320 - 11/10/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just because there are reports doesn't mean everybody has it, which was your question.  You might want to not obsess about it, especially if you're not experienced. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19115357 - 11/10/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've tripped a handful of times this year and smoked weed every now and then.
When I focus on different materials, such as wooden doors or surface like gravel it moves with my breathing... Early signs of HPPD?


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OfflineDeemstar
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19115411 - 11/10/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hallucinogens have affected my overall perception.

I don't know if it's HPPD but if I'm real buzzed up or tired I hallucinate a lil bit like real week acid. I continue to do psychedellics and it doesn't seem to be get any worse. Sometimes when I'm trippin Ill seem to have more clarity in my vision than when I'm sober idk might just be trippin tho.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: HostDisorder]
    #19115421 - 11/10/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've never seen the world in the same way since my first LSD trip. HPPD? I dunno. If it is, I like it.


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it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

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OfflineEmL
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19116890 - 11/10/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I've never seen the world in the same way since my first LSD trip. HPPD? I dunno. If it is, I like it.



Same here! Nowdays all the trees look rather trippy, can't remember how they looked before.
But yeah, I like it. It make me appreciate everything a lot more.


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: EmL]
    #19116951 - 11/10/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ive never had it very bad, and now its gone away since i trip very rarely


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: theRAPeutic]
    #19117121 - 11/10/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tahp93 said:
Also very strong Afterimages if looking at light for a few seconds when it's dark outside, then turning away... the shape or design from the car light will linger for as long as I pay attention to it, and it becomes very vivid dancing along when I change directions of focus.




Yeah, this?  This happens to everyone.

It's the same thing when you stare at a bright room or light for a second and then snap your eyes shut, you'll continue to see what you were looking at plastered on your eyelids for a few seconds.


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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19117221 - 11/10/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have no HPPD despite hundreds and hundeds of LSD/mushroom trips over 25 years. Don't know any people IRL with it either. See alot of young people online who think they do, I think it's alot of hysteria. The numbers of people who say they have it has gone way up, but the number of people taking LSD has gone way down. Where was all this HPPD in the 70's and 80s when LSD was plentiful?


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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: my3rdeye]
    #19117228 - 11/10/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

my3rdeye said:
I have no HPPD despite hundreds and hundeds of LSD/mushroom trips over 25 years. Don't know any people IRL with it either. See alot of young people online who think they do, I think it's alot of hysteria. The numbers of people who say they have it has gone way up, but the number of people taking LSD has gone way down. Where was all this HPPD in the 70's and 80s when LSD was plentiful?



I think a big part of it nowadays is all the RCs that people are experimenting with.


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OfflinetokerL
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19117307 - 11/10/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if my "Hallucinogen perception" really "persisted" then i'd be listening to The Wall all the time dude but all i get is noise and afterimages? what a rip, quit whining about it


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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: tokerL]
    #19117509 - 11/10/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's mainly stuff that you would've noticed before ever tripping if you were looking for it


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #19119141 - 11/11/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Op I think extremrly mild degrees of it are pretty common, but you would be pretty damn unlucky to get a full blown case that makes it difficult to function right. Second pf all, remembre that you see moré cases online because affected people are more likely to seek answers and obsess than non affected people. They are by no means the majority. Lastly LSD is not more likely to cause it than any other drug.

I spent a lot of time freaking out about it but the more you trip the less you care. Tripping becomes a lifestyle and being connected to that becomes less problematic


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OfflineUniverse
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #19119252 - 11/11/13 06:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

physicist said:
A lot of what people claim is HPPD, is really just optical illusions.  I remember as a kid staring at those magic eye pictures trying to find the image and seeing similar stuff that others call HPPD.  I think some of it is never noticed until after people try psychedelics.  :2cents:




I was gonna say the same exact thing.


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OfflineWindSearcher
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: Universe]
    #19119276 - 11/11/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have subtle hppd sometimes. But as said before I also have the feeling of being aware of more subtle things that I didn't notice before (or didn't remember noticing), like things happening in my peripheral vision. That said, sometimes there are minor visual distortions that are related to (I think) infrequent tripping over the past year.


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Edited by WindSearcher (11/11/13 07:18 AM)


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OfflineKief Ledger
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: WindSearcher]
    #19119368 - 11/11/13 07:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I notice more visual effects after excessive psychdelic use. Mainly from LSD. But nothing that interferes with everyday life.  (Besides "whoa that was pretty cool).  Mainly  tracers are more apparent,  floaters, and colored dots in my peripheral.  As others have stated already, i chalk this up to you simply paying more attention to what your seeing(they were always there), and possibly still being in a slightly trippy mind state. 

Normally I notice them just enough to wonder if I'm imagining it, but for instance , the weekend before last,  I was at a festival, and tripped 3 days in a row on L.  Re dosing  2 days at about the 4 hr mark.  I also rolled 2 days, so I'm sure that didn't help.  Last week my hppd was ramped way up, especially when i smoke (been pretty much smoking exclusively hash lately).  But its kinda pretty much back to normal( whatever that is).  So I'd say binging definitely adds to it, but I've yet to have any effects that cause me any problems.  In fact its usually brings a smile to my face


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19119455 - 11/11/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Quote:

my3rdeye said:
I have no HPPD despite hundreds and hundeds of LSD/mushroom trips over 25 years. Don't know any people IRL with it either. See alot of young people online who think they do, I think it's alot of hysteria. The numbers of people who say they have it has gone way up, but the number of people taking LSD has gone way down. Where was all this HPPD in the 70's and 80s when LSD was plentiful?



I think a big part of it nowadays is all the RCs that people are experimenting with.




I don't really see why RC's would be more prone to HPPD than the classics. They're really all the same thing. Not to say there aren't a few questionable ones like 2c-i. But many RC's bear similar risks to the classics. Though i can see where things like reverse tolerance in 2c-x's and really cheap nbomes have led people to dose far too frequently. Most of the bad HPPD stories i've heard start with "I was dosing 2c-e every other day for about 3 weeks."

I honestly think the biggest part of it is the internet. Back in the day, HPPD was probably something you only heard about once in a blue moon because minor visuals were never questioned. Now with the DSM IV diagnoses, hppdonline forum chalk full of horror stories, etc, every kid and their mother thinks they have it. When i mention this kind of stuff to IRL friends almost all of them give me a double take. None of them really spend their time on forums so they're not exposed to the idea of it. A very few of them have experienced it after periods of abuse, but usually it lasted a few weeks at most


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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19119537 - 11/11/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Funny I run into this thread, just recently i've been seeing the ground as wavy, like you just got off a boat or coming down off a trip. It only happens in the morning though, usually while I smoke a cig first thing. Its happened every day for the past 2 weeks or so. I used to literally hallucinate when I had a fever as a child, it was absolutely terrifying, heard voices, vivid open eye hallucinations, closing my eyes was just out of the question. It was pretty scary stuff. Maybe i'm running a hot temp in the morning....:lol:

I do mushies rarely and smoke every day, I take ADD med focalin rarely, yeah i've done tons of psychedelics, to me it seems unrelated to drugs but who knows ive been taking these same drugs probably for 8 years and nothing like this has happened..... anyways ive been trying to ignore it.

FWI I assure you none of this is an optical allusion. I literally stared at the street right in front of me this morning and it was breathing, like coming up on some mushrooms without the body high I suppose. Its not like it only happens with carpets with patterns or something like that.


Edited by Pureless (11/11/13 09:24 AM)


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19119550 - 11/11/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Quote:

my3rdeye said:
I have no HPPD despite hundreds and hundeds of LSD/mushroom trips over 25 years. Don't know any people IRL with it either. See alot of young people online who think they do, I think it's alot of hysteria. The numbers of people who say they have it has gone way up, but the number of people taking LSD has gone way down. Where was all this HPPD in the 70's and 80s when LSD was plentiful?



I think a big part of it nowadays is all the RCs that people are experimenting with.




I don't really see why RC's would be more prone to HPPD than the classics. They're really all the same thing. Not to say there aren't a few questionable ones like 2c-i. But many RC's bear similar risks to the classics. Though i can see where things like reverse tolerance in 2c-x's and really cheap nbomes have led people to dose far too frequently. Most of the bad HPPD stories i've heard start with "I was dosing 2c-e every other day for about 3 weeks."

I honestly think the biggest part of it is the internet. Back in the day, HPPD was probably something you only heard about once in a blue moon because minor visuals were never questioned. Now with the DSM IV diagnoses, hppdonline forum chalk full of horror stories, etc, every kid and their mother thinks they have it. When i mention this kind of stuff to IRL friends almost all of them give me a double take. None of them really spend their time on forums so they're not exposed to the idea of it. A very few of them have experienced it after periods of abuse, but usually it lasted a few weeks at most



The main reason I suppose this is because the classics have been tried for many years by many people. Some of our grandparents could have tried LSD back in the day. We've seen the long term effects of these substances. Nobody knows the possible long term side effects of many of these newer substances that are circulating these days. We can make educated guesses, but they are still guesses at best.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19119712 - 11/11/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:

The main reason I suppose this is because the classics have been tried for many years by many people. Some of our grandparents could have tried LSD back in the day. We've seen the long term effects of these substances. Nobody knows the possible long term side effects of many of these newer substances that are circulating these days. We can make educated guesses, but they are still guesses at best.




True. I'm not saying we can suppose they are all completely harmless, but i haven't really seen any evidence to support the idea that they cause HPPD more frequently than the classics. There might be a few exceptions like some of the more radical chemical structures like nbomes. But for the majority, they seem to not cause it any more frequently than the classics as far as i can tell. I honestly think the biggest factors in HPPD are a) pure fucking luck b) length of exposure c) depth of exposure. High and frequent dosing seem to cause it the most. Short lasting drugs like DMT seem to rarely cause it at all, though longer lasting brews like ayahuasca are known to cause it with repeated exposure. Some people tend to think LSD and mescaline cause it more than mushrooms. Again, longer experiences = more exposure.

As far as RC's go, the only time i tend to notice increased HPPD trends is in people who are binging on them because they are cheap and novel.

So not saying RC's are "safe." But I really don't think it's the biggest factor when talking about HPPD. Even with the huge increase of people claiming to have it, if you actually ask them about it they will describe very normal phenomena. Ie, static, floaters, "things move slightly if i stare at it for 30 seconds". I think it's like a majority of ADHD cases. Something you would never think was an issue until it was a classified disorder and promoted to the masses as problematic


Edited by JacksonMetaller (11/11/13 10:13 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: Pureless]
    #19120337 - 11/11/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FWI I assure you none of this is an optical allusion. I literally stared at the street right in front of me this morning and it was breathing, like coming up on some mushrooms without the body high I suppose. Its not like it only happens with carpets with patterns or something like that.




Try not staring at it, it's likely caused by the eye saccades you're trying to suppress...


:peace:PS


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19139477 - 11/15/13 01:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think it would be fair to say that HPPD is all genetic. Some people never get it, some after only one time, and others after years.


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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: theRAPeutic]
    #19140103 - 11/15/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've certainly got some visual lingering affects.
Ever since my first few trips, possibly my first, IDK, can't remember that far back, honestly :smile:
But yeah, sober, I surely get visuals. warping/breathing/etc. It's certainly not as intense as when tripping (thank fuck), but it's still there.
Personally I dig it. If I get real stoned it comes on even stronger, sometimes pretty close to as hard as on L.
It's a good time


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: Absent Minded]
    #19140128 - 11/15/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Had this before the first tripp, but after it stopped...


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OfflineConcealed
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Re: Every tripper has HPPD? [Re: Icyus]
    #19140972 - 11/15/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

After smoking synthetic cannabis for quite a bit of time I started to notice that instead of getting a flanging visual that you would normally associate with DXM or so (which I got with weed, spice or whatever) I got billions of multi-colored dots shifting in textures slight warping that almost reminds me of a somewhat low dose of 25c-NBOMe (my experience in psychedelics isnt the most varied but i've done my fair share so I kind of understand what visuals are)  anyways This has lingered, on aPVP it's pretty apparent too. I havent had alot of access since this started happening so I cant give you a complete description on how each drug affects these visuals. It just started happening pretty randomly after getting pretty deep into spice. And I dont know but maybe smoking it on 25i-NBOMe might of perma'd it. It's def not that bad though just other drugs intensify it. No depression or depersonalization derealization or anything considering that my ego had massively dissolved pretty recently during when it started. I dont know if it would of changed anything though. I kind of think it's cool that I can trip with stronger visuals on psychs but I havent tried any but 25i since it started D:


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