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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Loc: Kazakhstan
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Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives 2
#19113827 - 11/10/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not talking about criminals who cops have it on good word that the suspect is going to murder people. I'm talking about criminals that have committed crimes such as theft, simple assault, traffic violations, etc...
I personally do not think it is right to put lives at risk for petty arrests, you can put out a warrant for the person and arrest them later when you're not risking other people's lives for the arrest, or if you don't know who the person is try and find out, but even if you can't find out I still don't think the arrest is worth human lives.
Examples:
Do you think a cop should be able to kill a person for evading arrests?
Do you think the police should endanger the lives of multiple innocent civilians by going on high speed pursuits of small-time criminals?
.
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


Registered: 07/05/13
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19113850 - 11/10/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's a really bold stance
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: dontknow] 1
#19113860 - 11/10/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
dontknow said: That's a really bold stance
I don't think it's too bold of a stance to think a human life/lives are worth more than an arrest.
I got the joke though,
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett] 1
#19113861 - 11/10/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: there's a thread in which this discussion is ongoing and active
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19114175 - 11/10/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said: Do you think a cop should be able to kill a person for evading arrests?
other than florida I'm not sure of any states with fleeing felon laws
should the cops not shoot a suspect when their lives are put in danger? at what point does the life of a menace become more important than the lives of others?
Quote:
Do you think the police should endanger the lives of multiple innocent civilians by going on high speed pursuits of small-time criminals?
it's not the police that do it, it's the suspect that's eluding the cops that puts those lives in danger
if the criminal act is so small time then why compound it to the point that it would require lethal measures to be used, why wouldnt they just pull over and allow the arrest instead of adding charges such as attempted murder or reckless endangerment because once they start fleeing, it becomes a far more serious problem because not only is the one suspect going to do it but most will because they already know the cops wont pursue
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Synth Ethics
substitution


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 5,525
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Prisoner#1]
#19114208 - 11/10/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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in canada they abandon the pursuit if it get to the point that civils are in danger, depending on the gravity of the crime.
in Cops I see high speed pursuit that mostly ends up in a crash for things like overspeeding or failing to stop
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Prisoner#1]
#19114282 - 11/10/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said: Do you think a cop should be able to kill a person for evading arrests?
other than florida I'm not sure of any states with fleeing felon laws
Idk, I see cops all the ime on Cops & a few times in real life pull their guns on seemingly unarmed people and say something along the lines od "move and I'll shoot you"
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: should the cops not shoot a suspect when their lives are put in danger? at what point does the life of a menace become more important than the lives of others?
If a cops/bystanders life is in danger, in situations such as dealing with an armed violent person, I think cops/citizens should be able to use deadl force if necessary to protect themselves/others.
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Do you think the police should endanger the lives of multiple innocent civilians by going on high speed pursuits of small-time criminals?
it's not the police that do it, it's the suspect that's eluding the cops that puts those lives in danger
I understand that, but if the cops would just back off and put out a warrant instead of chasing them, which police and criminals are both well aware that high speed chases can be dangerous for all involved and bystanders, then no ones life would be in danger and then they could even likely make the arrest at a later time, without much incident.
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: if the criminal act is so small time then why compound it to the point that it would require lethal measures to be used, why wouldnt they just pull over and allow the arrest instead of adding charges such as attempted murder or reckless endangerment because once they start fleeing, it becomes a far more serious problem because not only is the one suspect going to do it but most will because they already know the cops wont pursue
I've said it before and I'll say it again, many criminals are stupid especially when they have a large amount of adrenaline floatingb around in their blood, or even moreso when this is coupled with drugs/alcohol.
if the person was in the right mindstate chances are they wouldn't have committed the crime to begin with, or at least they probably wouldn't try to evade an arrest and get a big time felony on their record instead of the small charge they would've got.
the cops can stay back and keep a heli on the vehicle if they really want, that is still way less dangerous then a high speed car chase, and the heli can watch the perp and radio the ground forces what he's doing and they can get him when the person stops.
Or like I already said, chances are, they already know who it is so they can just put out a multi-felon warrant on the guy and have the marshalls pick him up later.
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volcomstoner
I'll have just one more xanax



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Loc: Minnesnowta
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19114288 - 11/10/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If your going to break the law then I think you deserve to get offed by an officer
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HAIL SATAN Vas donc jouer dans le traffic
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: dontknow]
#19114294 - 11/10/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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A cop should not kill anyone.
Quote:
Do you think the police should endanger the lives of multiple innocent civilians by going on high speed pursuits of small-time criminals?
If they were a little more competent, they would do it like the German police: Look where the person is going with a helicopter and once the person gets on the highway simply put a roadblock on it and wait till the person comes to you.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: volcomstoner]
#19114296 - 11/10/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
volcomstoner said: If your going to break the law then I think you deserve to get offed by an officer
you better quit smokin' that reefer than kid, wouldn't want you to wind up dead for buying a $20 sac.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19114298 - 11/10/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said: If they were a little more competent, they would do it like the German police: Look where the person is going with a helicopter and once the person gets on the highway simply put a roadblock on it and wait till the person comes to you.
Yeah, I said something similar to that a few posts back.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19114304 - 11/10/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Surrender and you will be fine
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Posts: 16,000
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
#19114323 - 11/10/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Surrender and you will be fine
I understand that, but a lot of criminals are not thinking correctly, is that a reason to put humans lives in danger when there are other options? I do not think so
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Thulean

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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: volcomstoner] 1
#19114330 - 11/10/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
volcomstoner said: If your going to break the law then I think you deserve to get offed by an officer
1. Institute a law that any stupid post is punishable by death. 2. Have you slowly burned to death with sulphuric acid.
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Thulean]
#19114445 - 11/10/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So this got locked and then unlocked? Lol
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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volcomstoner
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: dontknow] 2
#19114478 - 11/10/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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YEah mj bitched until it got unlocked Maximum butthurt
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HAIL SATAN Vas donc jouer dans le traffic
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Set
candy colored clown


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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19114510 - 11/10/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The problem may be that the cops don't know how dangerous the "criminal" is until the perp has been detained and the situation evaluated.
Science is working on a hindsight machine, I'll post pics when it's done.
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classic LOVELINE
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19114536 - 11/10/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said: Do you think a cop should be able to kill a person for evading arrests?
other than florida I'm not sure of any states with fleeing felon laws
Idk, I see cops all the ime on Cops & a few times in real life pull their guns on seemingly unarmed people and say something along the lines od "move and I'll shoot you"
seemingly unarmed... seemingly. even if they are unarmed it doesnt make someone not dangerous
Quote:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: should the cops not shoot a suspect when their lives are put in danger? at what point does the life of a menace become more important than the lives of others?
If a cops/bystanders life is in danger, in situations such as dealing with an armed violent person, I think cops/citizens should be able to use deadl force if necessary to protect themselves/others.
you seem to misunderstand what being armed can consist of, we look at things such as knives, guns and even clubs as being dangerous weapons but for some reason you wish to overlook a vehicle as a weapon, no need to reload, it offers some protection to the driver and is every bit as fatal for the victims so when a driver plows through a busy intersection how is that any different that someone waving a gun around in a store

Quote:
Or like I already said, chances are, they already know who it is so they can just put out a multi-felon warrant on the guy and have the marshalls pick him up later.
and what happens if the guy goes on to kill several people between the time the cops break off a pursuit and the time a warrant is issued. how many lives are saved then
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19114569 - 11/10/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Surrender and you will be fine
I understand that, but a lot of criminals are not thinking correctly, is that a reason to put humans lives in danger when there are other options? I do not think so
it's the criminal that put those lives in danger
this isnt a difficult concept to understand
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Thulean

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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Prisoner#1]
#19114580 - 11/10/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Surrender and you will be fine
I understand that, but a lot of criminals are not thinking correctly, is that a reason to put humans lives in danger when there are other options? I do not think so
it's the criminal that put those lives in danger
this isnt a difficult concept to understand
You can say that, but at the end of the day it's the police officers fat finger squeezing the trigger.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Thulean]
#19114603 - 11/10/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thulean said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Surrender and you will be fine
I understand that, but a lot of criminals are not thinking correctly, is that a reason to put humans lives in danger when there are other options? I do not think so
it's the criminal that put those lives in danger
this isnt a difficult concept to understand
You can say that, but at the end of the day it's the police officers fat finger squeezing the trigger.
and that fat finger seems to stop the danger to the innocents of the general public that the criminals put in danger
again, not a difficult concept to understand
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Thulean

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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Prisoner#1]
#19114637 - 11/10/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Smog, cigs and alchohol are dangerous to the general public as well. All good and legal though. The only time something is "dangerous" is when the person is for lack of a better term, rebellious to the system. Drug dealers, gun runners, pimps, it's not so much that these people are dangerous to the public, or that the police are trying to protect us from them. It's more that these rebels aren't adhering to the rules of tax. And so NOW they are a threat, and that's all the police force is here for. To collect tax, not protect you and I.
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dontknow
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Thulean]
#19114722 - 11/10/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or is the purpose of making drug dealing/gun running illegal so that we the citizens stay safe from these 'dangerous' products.
The drug dealer may not be hurting people, but his products very well could be (not necessarily and probably not in the majority of cases). I'm not saying we should be protected from the option of using hard drugs, I think it should be a personal decision. But what if the gov sees it as a necessary measure to protect the people? After all aren't we their greatest asset? If their population died who would pay their salaries? Fight their wars? Etc etc..
A lot of people stay away from drugs not due to fear of the drug, but due to fear of the gov. Or fear of sketchy situations that are sometimes/often (depending on your contacts of course) a part of obtaining the substances. If they were made legal, you could shove those two fears out the window and many more people would try them. Meaning more people would hurt themselves with OD, addictions, bad decisions while intoxicated. Not saying most people that do drugs are faced with those problems, most aren't. But if more people had access, more people would surely get hurt.
Same with the gun runner, he's helping to arm people with potentially lethal weapons, although he's not physically hurting anybody at the time of his sale.
If it's all about taxation wouldn't the gov just make meth, cocaine, heroine etc legal and tax the shit out of them? Sure, some people would stay with the illegal buying if it was cheaper, but many people would move to the legal method where they could get an assuredly grade A product without having to fear legal repercussions.
I'm not saying all/any of this is true, but isn't it possible that they really do think they are doing us good by making things like this illegal?
edit: and pimps are dangerous, think about how many STDs they help spread and how shitty the situation can be for the woman involved
Edited by dontknow (11/10/13 12:46 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Thulean]
#19114743 - 11/10/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thulean said: Smog, cigs and alchohol are dangerous to the general public as well. All good and legal though. The only time something is "dangerous" is when the person is for lack of a better term, rebellious to the system. Drug dealers, gun runners, pimps, it's not so much that these people are dangerous to the public, or that the police are trying to protect us from them. It's more that these rebels aren't adhering to the rules of tax. And so NOW they are a threat, and that's all the police force is here for. To collect tax, not protect you and I.
most of the public doesnt smoke or drink, most dont have to deal with the smog and it's not about being rebellious to the system, it's about posing that imminent threat to the lives and safety of others
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Prisoner#1]
#19115843 - 11/10/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What do you not get Pris? This shit is simple. If the cops do not chase the perp there is no reason to believe anyone s going to end up dead, unlike if the cops get involved in a high speed pursuit.
IDC if you consider a car a weapon or not, by that logic almost anything can be a weapon, if you're twirling a pen you better watch out, cops might barge in and shoot you dead, because a pen can be a weapon.
The car would not be a weapon if the cops were not chasing it and making the person drive recklessly, what is so hard for you to grasp about that?
And about what if the guy goes off and murders a bunch of people?
Well that's just bullshit, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest the perp would do that, were not talking about a serial murderer here, we're talking about a small-time criminal.
Stick to the facts...
-Small time criminal
-If you pursue the criminal it is somewhat likely someone will end up dead.
-If you do not pursue the criminal at this time there is a very very very very high chance no one will be harmed.
Pretty simple decision...
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19115858 - 11/10/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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But if the cops didn't pursue petty criminals, then basically having a car = not going to jail. Everybody would be knocking off gas stations etc and the cops couldn't do shit about it.
And someone will be harmed, the victim of the small time criminal. They won't get justice.
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
Edited by dontknow (11/10/13 04:51 PM)
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TrentBoyett
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: dontknow]
#19115944 - 11/10/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
dontknow said: But if the cops didn't pursue petty criminals, then basically having a car = not going to jail. Everybody would be knocking off gas stations etc and the cops couldn't do shit about it.
And someone will be harmed, the victim of the small time criminal. They won't get justice.
Did you not read the thread?
Follow them with a heli and have cops stay nearby and stay in radio comm with the heli.
Or if they know who the criminal is, put out a warrant, its not hard to figure out who someone is by various methods, fingerprinting the crime scene, facial recognition software, running plates, etc...
And even if you fail with both of these methods, then so what, a small percentage of criminals maybe get away, better than multiple possible innocent people dying, but honestly not many people will get away from these two methods.
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19115959 - 11/10/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Who reads the OP these days
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: dontknow]
#19115966 - 11/10/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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tl;dr
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


Registered: 07/05/13
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19115981 - 11/10/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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But, do all police stations have a helicopter on hand? and more than 1? I think probably not. It's a good idea but I don't know if it's practical for them.
And I don't think fingerprinting every crime scene is logical either.
--------------------
The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett] 1
#19116033 - 11/10/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said: he car would not be a weapon if the cops were not chasing it and making the person drive recklessly
The cops following me does not make me drive recklessly. If a cop turns his lights on, I pull over instead of flying through intersections and nearly killing people, because I am not a selfish idiot.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Sleepwalker]
#19116096 - 11/10/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sleepwalker said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said: he car would not be a weapon if the cops were not chasing it and making the person drive recklessly
The cops following me does not make me drive recklessly. If a cop turns his lights on, I pull over instead of flying through intersections and nearly killing people, because I am not a selfish idiot.
So does being a selfish prick make it okay for people to die?
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett] 1
#19116154 - 11/10/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your cause and effect are all mixed up.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Sleepwalker]
#19116201 - 11/10/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No its not.
I'm done repeating myself over and over, if you want the facts reread the thread. If you want to continue arguing when there's no further information needed then go for it, but I will not be responding unless you provide new evidence.
BTW, this is a hypothetical situation I made up, so there is no more new evidence.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Prisoner#1]
#19118723 - 11/11/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
volcomstoner said: If your going to break the law then I think you deserve to get offed by an officer
Do you go to the police station every sunday to pray to the government and thank it for it's great laws?
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Thulean said: You can say that, but at the end of the day it's the police officers fat finger squeezing the trigger.
and that fat finger seems to stop the danger to the innocents of the general public that the criminals put in danger
again, not a difficult concept to understand
It seems more like it spreads unnecessary violence including unnecessary deaths and is a sign of utter incompetence and fear on the part of the police. If we're talking about this kid that got shot here (I guess this is also why you locked the thread), then the office could have given off warning shots, could have shot the tires, called reinforcements, there were many options. Instead the guy decided to shoot and he know it could kill the person and considering the amount of shots he actually tried to kill the person. Have a look at this article: http://rt.com/usa/us-germany-85-shots-022/
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



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Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19154704 - 11/18/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bump because of recent events.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Synth Ethics]
#19154718 - 11/18/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Synth Ethics said: in canada they abandon the pursuit if it get to the point that civils are in danger, depending on the gravity of the crime.
in Cops I see high speed pursuit that mostly ends up in a crash for things like overspeeding or failing to stop 
QFT
Quote:
volcomstoner said: If your going to break the law then I think you deserve to get offed by an officer
so when a cop pops into your home, and caps you, it'll all be ok, because you smoke drugs and shit, right?Quote:
zappaisgod said: Surrender and you will be fine
we're not talking about the felon or criminal... understand now, we're talking about innocent bystanders that may or not be around during a major chase and/or shoot out.Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Surrender and you will be fine
I understand that, but a lot of criminals are not thinking correctly, is that a reason to put humans lives in danger when there are other options? I do not think so
it's the criminal that put those lives in danger
this isnt a difficult concept to understand
it's also the cops that put lives in danger. they are there, driving dangerously with their vehicle, and they are using dangerous maneuvers, and they are firing weapons. it's dangerous. you can try and deny it, and it'd be funny... but... it's a plain obtuse super obvious and you'd have to be a little DURR to not see, that it's dangerous.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19154906 - 11/18/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjmihalov said: recent events.
Did I miss something?
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Sleepwalker]
#19154930 - 11/18/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sleepwalker said:
Quote:
mjmihalov said: recent events.
Did I miss something?
A cop shot at a van full of kids.
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Shroomism
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19154983 - 11/18/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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and you are surprised ?
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
#19155028 - 11/18/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How do people justify arresting people over petty offences while putting innocent civilian lives at risk?
Also it is laughable how people see this in strictly black and white terms and dont have the cognitive ability to see between the two.
Using a timely example of the officer opening fire on a van.
Irregardless of the children in the vehicle, the officer opened fire on a fleeing petty crime suspect. An identification (personal, vehicle) was established, an arrest could have easily been made to arrest said suspect at a later time, without the need for firearms. The officer placed the lives of any suspect near by at risk.
You can all say that the suspect put lives in danger by choosing to flee. However, the officer made the decision to attempt to take the life of the suspect by firing his pistol.
Clearly the officer is of poor aim, as he didnt accomplish what he set out to by firing his weapon, so a poorly aimed shot could have easily harmed or killed a civilian.
But what I find most interesting, is how people trust the judgment of a police officer in the heat of the moment.
Who here trusts a LEO to make the proper decision in heat of the moment scenarios? I know I dont.
Officers should respond to violence with appropriate force, however, fleeing a traffic stop and other small time crimes do not justify the use of lethal force.
So you can claim the criminal put the lives at risk, but it is the individual officers choice to escalate the situation by using a fire arm, or continuing pursuit despite the risk to the public.
You guys who support pursuit of petty criminals despite the risk to the public, must have a lot of trust in LEO's. So anyone who supports pursuit despite the danger to the public, please tell me why you have placed so much confidence and trust in the hands of LEO's.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19155053 - 11/18/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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there should be amendment; in which you should be shot and killed for misdemeanor.
see, this would clear up the confusion in America.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: Shroomism]
#19155083 - 11/18/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: and you are surprised ?
Unfortunately no, it's pretty sad that stuff like this is so common-place that it doesn't even really surprise me...
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19155118 - 11/18/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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it's gonna keep happening and getting worse. with every story and news article of police running rampant, people (who are mostly idiots) will (idiotically) be scared to death of dealing with police, so they'll more often be un-cooperative, and more often be killed; continuing the cycle of America.
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TrentBoyett
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
#19155165 - 11/18/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: it's gonna keep happening and getting worse. with every story and news article of police running rampant, people (who are mostly idiots) will (idiotically) be scared to death of dealing with police, so they'll more often be un-cooperative, and more often be killed; continuing the cycle of America.
Yeah, I rarely have to ever deal with cops, but when I do I just remain calm, be truthful, and cooperate to the fullest extent that I feel comfortable with without letting them stomp all 9over my rights...
Every time that I do that it seems to work out for the best.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19155224 - 11/18/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah, except if you're gonna get arrested though, your tune would probably be different.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
#19155489 - 11/18/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: yeah, except if you're gonna get arrested though, your tune would probably be different.
No, I've dealt with the cops knowing I was gonna get arrested 3 times I'm pretty sure, twice I was completely compliant because I knew I was in the wrong, and I didn't want to fight and get more charges.
One of them times involved me having a gun and people calling the police on me, even though it was only an airsoft pistol I was completely compliant because I knew they though I had a weapon and I didn't want to get shot. I went to JJC for this for like two weeks and got one year of juvenile probation that I ended up getting off of in like six months, I got charged with like three felonies that day, but I got a good lawyer and got it dropped to one misdemeanor. I was like 12 when this happened, and I already knew to listen to police when they thought you could be a threat if you didn't want to be tazed, or very possibly shot.
The other time I was compliant I was a pretty drunk, I was at a buddy's house drinking everclear, everyone went to sleep early, I was bored and decided it was a good idea to go steal stuff from cars, well one thing led to another and the cops seen me walking down the road and stopped me, they figured out I was breaking into cars, I got arrested and went to jail, I was calm enough with them that they didn't even notice I was drunk.
The other time I was blackout drunk, I didn't really fight too much because I was blackout drunk, but I guess I was pretty rude to the cops, I don't remember it though, if I was in my right mind I would've complied completely, because I was in the wrong and I'm usually not stupid. I got arrested , but I was drunk and I guess you're not allowed to take inebriated juveniles to jail, so they called my parents to come get me. I got one year of probation, but they kept putting off the court date until after I was 18, it still was only on my juvenile records, but still it took them like 7 months to schedule my trial. My probation was like nothing though, My probation officer said I have like no restrictions other than that I had to do good in school, I didn't get in trouble and did good in school so I got off probation in like 6 months.
I was like 17 when this happened.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19155571 - 11/18/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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well, you're lucky Zimmerman didn't get you, before the cops came to deal with your drunkeness.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
#19155584 - 11/18/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't see any intent on his part to batter a man's head into the pavement because he was being followed.
If cops are forced to never pursue a vehicle fleeing a traffic stop why would anybody ever stop at all?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
#19155623 - 11/18/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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you have to pursue, and trail the felon, as to not provoke a friggin chase which puts everyone in danger. call me the nonidiot version of the police commissioner. you don't just start a full speed chase.
if the felon takes off, you follow. simple.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: akira_akuma]
#19155632 - 11/18/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I thought we were talking about routine traffic stops? If it's a fucking felon then go get the bastard with all due haste.
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EdibleStereos
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Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
#19155649 - 11/18/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I didn't see any intent on his part to batter a man's head into the pavement because he was being followed.
If cops are forced to never pursue a vehicle fleeing a traffic stop why would anybody ever stop at all?
Ugh, again with the black or white vision.
The point is to have discretion in whether or not to pursue based on considering the immediate risk to civilian life, versus the necessity to apprehend a suspect immediately.
In example, it would be necessary to pursue a suspect who is armed and a immediate threat to society. Compared to opening fire on a fleeing minivan who has been identified and not shown to be armed.
If an officer is not able to differentiate the difference, then they should not be an officer in the first place.
It is interesting to see people defend LEO's when those same LEO's would likely take extreme measures against them as drug users, or as members of an online drug community.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: zappaisgod]
#19155650 - 11/18/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i was just paraphrasing.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes

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Re: Do you think an arrest is worth a human life/human lives [Re: EdibleStereos]
#19156503 - 11/18/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
EdibleStereos said: It is interesting to see people defend LEO's when those same LEO's would likely take extreme measures against them as drug users, or as members of an online drug community.
So? That doesn't mean they are always wrong.
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