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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Define Democracy
#19113094 - 11/10/13 02:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The overlords do their own thing, the masses don't know who they are or what they do. Puppet prime ministers or presidents rave about nothing for the media, do nothing other than pointless and incompetent tinkering with bureaucratic systems. Minimalist curfews, executions and military expansionist policies. Deliberately maintain a large unemployed population base, cause continuous job losses, slash employment opportunities, educate people with useless qualifications that ensure high unemployment.
Barely scratched the surface really. May be continued.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said: The overlords do their own thing, the masses don't know who they are or what they do. Puppet prime ministers or presidents rave about nothing for the media, do nothing other than pointless and incompetent tinkering with bureaucratic systems. Minimalist curfews, executions and military expansionist policies. Deliberately maintain a large unemployed population base, cause continuous job losses, slash employment opportunities, educate people with useless qualifications that ensure high unemployment.
Barely scratched the surface really. May be continued.
So you are talking about a centralized authoritarian government I thought you were talking about democracies. An example of a democracy is the STATE of Montana in the United States.
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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The media and institutions of certain nations that describe themselves as democratic, let them define democracy.
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spixce
Up, Up & Away



Registered: 06/29/13
Posts: 4,451
Loc: AZ
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Democracy - when the majority of people control everyone's life and rights. In other-words bullshit
--------------------
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: spixce] 2
#19135342 - 11/14/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
spixce said: Democracy - when the majority of people control everyone's life and rights. In other-words bullshit
What an astonishingly well thought out and articulate post.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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wowwtf
Stranger

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 153
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Democracy- An illusion of free choice perpetuated by propaganda and instilled by a ruling minority to sway responsibility away from itself and unto the brainwashed propagandized majority.
Control the Media
Control the Politics
Control the banking
and you control the entire nation
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: wowwtf]
#19173141 - 11/21/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Got this letter today, a referendum. I get a vote on something. People die for this? It's non-binding. Do I want my government to sell off my nations assets? May as well tick NO and waste my precious time posting it. I'm not feeling the freedom. Does it make the slightest difference to me if these assets are sold or not? I have no idea. I'm really not included or informed on anything that is going on.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said: Got this letter today, a referendum. I get a vote on something. People die for this? It's non-binding. Do I want my government to sell off my nations assets? May as well tick NO and waste my precious time posting it. I'm not feeling the freedom. Does it make the slightest difference to me if these assets are sold or not? I have no idea. I'm really not included or informed on anything that is going on.
What assets? The country shouldn't have 'assets' it should be the People's assets. Sounds like you have a herd compulsive spenders in your government, like the US, who need another fix of money to keep the votes rolling in next election.
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Democracy, its only fun when it isn't your stuff.
-------------------- Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between. pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold. AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.
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LittleBill
Taylor'd

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 54
Loc: Them Blue Ridge Mountains
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: wowwtf]
#19202124 - 11/28/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wowwtf said: Democracy- An illusion of free choice perpetuated by propaganda and instilled by a ruling minority to sway responsibility away from itself and unto the brainwashed propagandized majority.
Control the Media
Control the Politics
Control the banking
and you control the entire nation
-------------------- Relax, Breathe, Repeat.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 3 minutes, 28 seconds
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Democracy:
The art of seducing a camera in order to get elected so you can then proceed with your own agenda.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Patlal]
#19204971 - 11/29/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Democracy: What happens in a constitutional republic when 50.5% of the electorate decides that 49.5% of everyone else have no say in laws, and that any filibuster or interference from the minority party is 'obstructionism'

Democracy is tyranny of the majority.
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presentusthefuture
Stranger


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 127
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"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.” ~ Oscar Wilde
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting." ~ Charles Bukowski
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DrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist



Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Democracy:
Majority rule don't work in mental institutions.
-NOFX
But even if everyone were smart, democracy obviously doesn't work... Everyone needs a voice and not just the majority.
-------------------- Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.
Edited by DrugsRGood (12/05/13 05:34 PM)
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Psychedelicjournal
John Human


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 157
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Democracy does not exist. There are no truly democratic nation. Hell America claims to be a "Democracy" but yet we were founded as a constitutional republic. Democracy is just a fancy word that politicians use to get votes.
-------------------- “I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means that you never figured out what it is all about. The mystery is in the body and the way the body works itself into nature.” – Terence McKenna
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Exterminans
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 6
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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"Like any other kind government it's got something to do with young men killing each other I believe."
-- Johnny Got His Gun
Edited by Exterminans (12/12/13 06:10 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Democracy is the systematic oppression and enslavement of minority groups by means of violence.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said: The overlords do their own thing, the masses don't know who they are or what they do. Puppet prime ministers or presidents rave about nothing for the media, do nothing other than pointless and incompetent tinkering with bureaucratic systems. Minimalist curfews, executions and military expansionist policies. Deliberately maintain a large unemployed population base, cause continuous job losses, slash employment opportunities, educate people with useless qualifications that ensure high unemployment.
Barely scratched the surface really. May be continued.
That's your definition of democracy? While I see where you're coming from, I wouldn't redefine democracy to fit today's world. I'd just say that we don't really live in a democracy.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19276015 - 12/14/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Democracy is a terrible, violent collectivist system
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 3 minutes, 28 seconds
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19276340 - 12/14/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Democracy: Somehow it always comes to young men killing each other because of it.
EDIT: oh shit, I read that here lol. I thought I was being original and shit.
--------------------
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Patlal]
#19276660 - 12/14/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Democracy; if you don't agree with me ill hire government goons to either fuck you up or force you to.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277013 - 12/14/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's not a definition though. You're just describing societies/systems that call themselves democratic. I don't disagree with what you're saying about them. My point is just, I don't think that's actually what Democracy is. Democracy is usually defined as a system where everybody gets an equal say. That's obviously not how it is in most countries, so I wouldn't say that democracy is a "terrible, violent collectivist system", I'd just say that that, for example, America isn't democratic.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277041 - 12/14/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding whos for dinner.
Edited by Shins (12/15/13 01:21 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277050 - 12/14/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can't think of any system of govt. that isn't mostly about pointing guns at perceived enemies. We are top dog at the moment so look like the special bad guy but this has been going on a long time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277083 - 12/14/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: But isn't democracy just the majority pointing guns at minorities and making them do things against their free will?
No, by definition, that's not a democracy. I gave a definition of democracy that said everyone gets an equal say. If everyone doesn't get an equal say, it doesn't matter what you label yourself as, it isn't a democracy.
What you gave sounds more like a Fascist state. And I'd even change your definition a lil' more and say it's not just the minorities, but the majorities.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277180 - 12/15/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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a democracy is the 51% rule over the 49%. By definition it is the majority ruling over the minority.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277231 - 12/15/13 12:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Democracy: An unattainable egalitarian ideal. The only system I can see being genuinely democratic is Panarchism, with the inalienable right of individuals to secede & opt-out of the system with no reproval. The very nature of States & the means by which 'common good' schemes are implemented is the antithesis of democracy. The Democratic Ideal cannot be attained within the framework of the State apparatus; there will always be a subset of society that effectively has no vote.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
#19277308 - 12/15/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: a democracy is the 51% rule over the 49%. By definition it is the majority ruling over the minority.
Then that's not a democracy. Democracy would be equality for all. If 51% have power, then it's not equal. Since that's one party having more power, by my definition, that's not a democracy.
Quote:
Echro said: The very nature of States & the means by which 'common good' schemes are implemented is the antithesis of democracy. The Democratic Ideal cannot be attained within the framework of the State apparatus; there will always be a subset of society that effectively has no vote.
Right, I'd agree with that. Democracy hasn't truly been implemented. What my argument is, is that America, or fill in any other "Democratic" state isn't democratic. But it's not democracy's problem, it's the people who are in power who label themselves as democratic and then don't practice democracy.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277343 - 12/15/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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from merriam webster: "government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
so yes i am right. 51% of people are the majority. Therefore having the power. I don't care what your definition is, i just gave the correct definition.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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If you want to get semantic, dictionaries do revise definitions to be more akin to the common usage though, not their etymological/philosophical roots.
Ancient greek Demos; "People". Ancient Greek Kratos; Cracy, "Power, Rule".
People Rule. The Literal implication of that isn't my cup of tea.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
Edited by Echro (12/15/13 12:56 AM)
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
#19277368 - 12/15/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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whats the point of using language if you just decide to use words in the way YOU think they should be used as opposed to the actual definition. Democracy has never been considered a good idea by those who actually knew what it meant because it simply means majority rule.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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I retracted what I said, see my prior post.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
psyconaught said: from merriam webster: "government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
so yes i am right. 51% of people are the majority. Therefore having the power. I don't care what your definition is, i just gave the correct definition.
Right, people not just having the majority of power, people having the power. From your definition: government by the people. That's a democracy. If people don't have that power, then it's not a democracy.
The majority (being the people) would have the power. That's democracy.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277420 - 12/15/13 01:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
Quote:
Shins said: But isn't democracy just the majority pointing guns at minorities and making them do things against their free will?
No, by definition, that's not a democracy. I gave a definition of democracy that said everyone gets an equal say. If everyone doesn't get an equal say, it doesn't matter what you label yourself as, it isn't a democracy.
What you gave sounds more like a Fascist state. And I'd even change your definition a lil' more and say it's not just the minorities, but the majorities.
How exactly do you enforce democratic consensus?
You do it with guns and violence.
those who disagree with the democratic consensus are made to do things againstvtheir will by coercion and threat of violent force and prolonged imprisonment.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277427 - 12/15/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: How exactly do you enforce democratic consensus?
You do it with guns and violence.
those who disagree with the democratic consensus are made to do things againstvtheir will by coercion and threat of violent force and prolonged imprisonment.
Then I'd just say that's not democracy. Simple as that.
EDIT: I'm not saying it's doable, I'm just saying that it's not democracy. The thread was define democracy, and I was just pointing out that none of them were definitions of democracy.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
Edited by r72rock (12/15/13 01:26 AM)
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277437 - 12/15/13 01:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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This thread makes me think of that quote "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote"
I believe in many principles of democracy, but think pure democracy is tyranny by the majority. It's best to have a Democratic Republic with well defined individual rights that even a vast majority wouldn't be allowed to change
--------------------
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277464 - 12/15/13 01:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
Quote:
Shins said: How exactly do you enforce democratic consensus?
You do it with guns and violence.
those who disagree with the democratic consensus are made to do things againstvtheir will by coercion and threat of violent force and prolonged imprisonment.
Then I'd just say that's not democracy. Simple as that.
EDIT: I'm not saying it's doable, I'm just saying that it's not democracy. The thread was define democracy, and I was just pointing out that none of them were definitions of democracy.
But that is democracy in the real world. I know many of us have been taught democracy is the greatest thing in the world and it can hard to accept it in this light but really that's what it is.
It gets worse when the government expands and populace is dumbed down and brainwashed and the "democratic" process becomes controlled by an elite class of oligatchs who legislate themselves the money.
the pathetic socialists all beg for crumbs "democratically" while the more capable and freedom loving people are fleeced at gunpoint.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277486 - 12/15/13 02:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: But that is democracy in the real world. I know many of us have been taught democracy is the greatest thing in the world and it can hard to accept it in this light but really that's what it is.
It gets worse when the government expands and populace is dumbed down and brainwashed and the "democratic" process becomes controlled by an elite class of oligatchs who legislate themselves the money.
the pathetic socialists all beg for crumbs "democratically" while the more capable and freedom loving people are fleeced at gunpoint.
I'm not arguing that democracy is the greatest thing in the world. I don't think it's the greatest thing in the world. I also don't disagree that the world that we live in is like that. It is fucked up, and most governments (like the US) are terrible institutions.
That said, I'm saying that, regardless of what a country labels itself as, it's not democratic if they force people to conform to a pre-made system and bolster some agenda that's not what the people want. The examples that've been given in this thread aren't examples of democracy. They may call themselves democracy, but that doesn't mean that they are democratic.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277501 - 12/15/13 02:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What do people think of a free market as a means of non-violent democracy?
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277519 - 12/15/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know what people think of a free market as means of a non-violent democracy. That's irrelevant.
Democracy is what the people want. If they want a free market, cool. Free markets though aren't what make democracy. They could vote to not have a free market, and have it controlled by a government. If a government doesn't give people the right to vote on that, then it isn't a democracy because it isn't being ran by the people.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277526 - 12/15/13 02:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Democracy is NOT what the people want. People in general don't want mob rule (democracy).
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19277527 - 12/15/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: What do people think of a free market as a means of non-violent democracy?
I think it's the shit.
"The capitalist system of production is an economic democracy in which every penny gives a right to vote. The consumers are the sovereign people. The capitalists, the entrepreneurs, and the farmers are the people’s mandatories. If they do not obey, if they fail to produce, at the lowest possible cost, what the consumers are asking for, they lose their office. Their task is service to the consumer. Profit and loss are the instruments by means of which the consumers keep a tight rein on all business activities." ~Ludwig Von Mises
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
#19277535 - 12/15/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Echro said:
Quote:
Shins said: What do people think of a free market as a means of non-violent democracy?
I think it's the shit.
"The capitalist system of production is an economic democracy in which every penny gives a right to vote. The consumers are the sovereign people. The capitalists, the entrepreneurs, and the farmers are the people’s mandatories. If they do not obey, if they fail to produce, at the lowest possible cost, what the consumers are asking for, they lose their office. Their task is service to the consumer. Profit and loss are the instruments by means of which the consumers keep a tight rein on all business activities." ~Ludwig Von Mises
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
psyconaught said: Democracy is NOT what the people want. People in general don't want mob rule (democracy).
You're twisting what I'm saying. (And what you're saying)
By definition, Democracy is what the people want. You even gave that in your definition. It's a government by the people. The majority being the people.
If they don't want that, cool. That's a whole different matter. That doesn't change the definition of democracy. This thread was define democracy. I was pointing out that what people are attacking as democracy isn't true democracy by democracy's definition. That's it.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19277558 - 12/15/13 02:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: Democracy is NOT what the people want. People in general don't want mob rule (democracy).
You're twisting what I'm saying. (And what you're saying)
By definition, Democracy is what the people want. You even gave that in your definition. It's a government by the people. The majority being the people.
If they don't want that, cool. That's a whole different matter. That doesn't change the definition of democracy. This thread was define democracy. I was pointing out that what people are attacking as democracy isn't true democracy by democracy's definition. That's it.
I See your point
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
#19278780 - 12/15/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
By definition, Democracy is what the people want.
The problem comes with defining "the people". In Democracies, it is the majority. Or, at least the majority of those who can be bothered to vote. Therefore it is mob rule. Whoever has the biggest gang wins.
Democracy is an absolutely terrible way to run a society. The best way to run a society is as a constitutionally-limited republic, always assuming the constitution is as good as (or better than) the constitution of the United States at protecting individual rights, especially property rights.
The people charged with manning the various government positions can be elected through a democratic process, though. That is certainly an acceptable way to fill them.
Phred
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AEL1911
Stranger



Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 342
Loc: Japan
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Phred]
#19287107 - 12/17/13 04:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.
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DrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist



Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: AEL1911]
#19288343 - 12/17/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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'Majority rule' don't work in mental institutions. Sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions.
--Idiots Are Taking Over, NOFX
I love that line in that song, it describes democracy and its failure beautifully.
-------------------- Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.
Edited by DrugsRGood (12/17/13 12:26 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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I don't know why Americans always want to spread such a shitty system all over the world. Like wtf.
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DrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist



Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19288363 - 12/17/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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They say "Power to the people".
Yea right!
-------------------- Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19289526 - 12/17/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: I don't know why Americans always want to spread such a shitty system all over the world. Like wtf.
America isn't even a Democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. We have Democratic elections, but we are a Republic
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  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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I know, so why don't they try to spread republicanism around the world?
:/
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AEL1911
Stranger



Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 342
Loc: Japan
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19332169 - 12/27/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: I don't know why Americans always want to spread such a shitty system all over the world. Like wtf.
I don't know what Americans you have met but I want to spread anarchy. Of course being an American citizen is being a player in a game, in a land with imaginary borders and some f'ed up rules. Everyone's world is full of anarchy but governments and media have convinced many to believe in lies and deceptions.
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
#19334188 - 12/27/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because it's much easier to vote yourself someone elses swag than work for your own, duh
-------------------- Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between. pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold. AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Most of you people are absolutely wrong about the American system. The American system as a constitutional republic with a limited Federal Government is an excellent system made to prevent abuse.
What's fucked up is THE PEOPLE HAVE ALLOWED a large number of turds to float to the top of the bowl and abuse the system. By turds I mean--Obama,Boehner,Paul Ryan,Mitch McConnel,Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid,GW Bush--you get the picture.
The only way to change it is to get those fuckers out. How? By writing them? LOL, as if that is going to do anything. No. Go to your neighbors, talk to everyone you know and convince them that the assholes need to be thrown out.
That's the only way THE PEOPLE are going to take the country back.
And when I hear poltiicians crying about 'people wanting to cut government' fucking A i want to cut government. Cut government and make THE PEOPLE the source of power, not a bunch of asshole lawyers in suits who give your money away to keep themselves in power.
YOU are either in favor of The Government and the people now in power, or you are against it and FOR THE PEOPLE. Being against it means you cant kiss the Ass of a democratic or republican and think they are going to fix it. They aren't. Both parties shit stinks horribly and its time we get rid of them.
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: The American system as a constitutional republic with a limited Federal Government is an excellent system made to prevent abuse.
Intentions and outcomes are two very different things. In Theory, and Principle, maybe so, but history does not seem to agree with you here. In the end the Constitution did little to prevent the vast centralization of power we have today. It was a noble experiment however, I will give it that much.
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
#19334808 - 12/27/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't hear no bell
-------------------- Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between. pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold. AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
#19334856 - 12/27/13 10:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Echro said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: The American system as a constitutional republic with a limited Federal Government is an excellent system made to prevent abuse.
Intentions and outcomes are two very different things. In Theory, and Principle, maybe so, but history does not seem to agree with you here. In the end the Constitution did little to prevent the vast centralization of power we have today. It was a noble experiment however, I will give it that much.
You didnt read my whole post. The people have the power to fix it. It's their fault that they allow these assclowns to get away with the abuse.
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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I read your whole post. I just happen to have little faith in the efficacy or efficiency of a system that is dependent on the right people supporting it, & the right people running it.
I'd be content with something vastly decentralized in comparison to what we have now, however. There's a picture somewhere of "Jeffersonian America" but I can't seem to find it now. Lincoln screwed state sovereignty when he abolished State's rights of Secession. It's been interesting hearing about Counties across the country proposing secession, but I have little current optimism about the prospects.
Edited by Echro (12/27/13 11:05 PM)
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Barack Obama II
Commander in Chief



Registered: 12/25/13
Posts: 54
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Last seen: 10 years, 30 days
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Democracy: A dictatorship/hereditary monarchy under the fine and able Obama leadership.
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Psychedelicking
The King



Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 133
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 23 days
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Democracy: Being a slave yet believing you are free.
-------------------- "I know not which weapons will be used in World War 3, But World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Vote for nobody Nobody will keep election promises Nobody will listen to your concerns Nobody will help the poor and unemployed Nobody cares Nobody tells the truth
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Echro
Psychedelic Nihilist



Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said:

Vote for nobody Nobody will keep election promises Nobody will listen to your concerns Nobody will help the poor and unemployed Nobody cares Nobody tells the truth
How is New Zealand's political landscape? I need some back up options if prospects get grimmer
-------------------- "People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna "You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life. And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
#19466012 - 01/24/14 03:28 AM (10 years, 7 days ago) |
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In my opinion New Zealand is pretty much a state of america. A piece of real estate. Everything is for sale. Look at the O.P. I don't encourage anyone to come here. The food, weather, culture is crap. Everyone talks endless nauseating shit. Nothing interesting to see or do.
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