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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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How to accept the absurd?
#19112295 - 11/09/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My whole life has been a quest to find meaning and the failure to do so. When i do accept the absurd it basically results in depression because i accept my life has no meaning. Is it possible to be happy while accepting the absurd?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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jackSpearows
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Take stock in the pure sensual process that is your life. I feel like meaning comes to me naturally, I don't usually try and force it. Its usually nothing special tho, like if I jog alot the shower and food is meaningful afterwards. Stuff like that.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Humans luckily have a built in mechanism for dealing with absurdity called laughter.
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jackSpearows
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: White Beard] 1
#19112624 - 11/09/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said: Humans luckily have a built in mechanism for dealing with absurdity called laughter.
I was just thinking how alot of times "the answer" is usually this --> or this --> depending on the kind of day it is.
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circastes
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I'm starting to think philosophical contemplation is the beginnings of depression or a form of depression itself and brain chemicals alone determine your state of happiness, and your natural apprehension of life is enough.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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quinn
some kinda love


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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: circastes]
#19112959 - 11/10/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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you think too much man (join the club ) @ cog, quests are generally pretty absurd.. the quest to find that precious 'meaning' stuff..
if you went to king arthur and were like, 'dude the holy grail is not real' he'd be pretty depressed.. probably go through all the stages denial, aggression, bargaining.. maybe he'd come round in the end..
but like idk the final stage 'acceptance' is probably also bs, maybe just another holy grail type scenario.. maybe king arthur would end up as some guru teaching acceptance, leading ppl to inner peace & eternal bliss or whatever....
yeep hope that was of help
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
Edited by quinn (11/10/13 01:39 AM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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quinn
some kinda love


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hah.. well that was suspenseful
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Libertin
Absurdist


Registered: 10/07/09
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: quinn]
#19113450 - 11/10/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your use of the word 'absurd' suggests that you might have read Albert Camus' work (one of my philosophical inspirations). But in case you're not familiar with it, here's a summarised sample from sparknotes.com/philosophy/sisyphus/summary.html
Quote:
The absurd is a contradiction that cannot be reconciled, and any attempt to reconcile this contradiction is simply an attempt to escape from it: facing the absurd is struggling against it. Camus claims that existentialist philosophers such as Kierkegaard, Chestov, and Jaspers, and phenomenologists such as Husserl, all confront the contradiction of the absurd but then try to escape from it. Existentialists find no meaning or order in existence and then attempt to find some sort of transcendence or meaning in this very meaninglessness.
Living with the absurd, Camus suggests, is a matter of facing this fundamental contradiction and maintaining constant awareness of it. Facing the absurd does not entail suicide, but, on the contrary, allows us to live life to its fullest.
I don't think it directly answers your question but it might set you on an interesting path of discovery to see what Camus believed. He thought that when faced with the absurdity of the human condition, we have three choices:
- Accept that life is meaningless and commit suicide
- Perform a logical leap of faith to avoid the problem. E.g. "Life's not absurd because Jesus saves! And I therefore know that my life has meaning."
- Embrace the absurdity (Camus advocates this option only). "The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy1." - Camus
1In the ancient Greek myth of Sisyphus, the character Sisyphus was punished to a futile life of labour, pushing a boulder up a hill only to have it roll down again, endlessly. Camus compared the futility of Sisyphus' punishing task to the human condition.
Edit: Cognitive_Shift, I've just realised you're in France, so assuming you can read French then you can read Camus in the original language that he wrote.. French! But I would be surprised now if you haven't already read his writings
Edited by Libertin (11/10/13 06:47 AM)
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Grapefruit
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: quinn]
#19113483 - 11/10/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I spend all day trying to find little scraps of meaning. The more I realise it's all bullshit the more bored I become. 
Every once in a blue moon the waves of acceptance wash over though and I feel just fine. I hope to feel more like that and less bored at least.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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I think we create meaning. Its not something that's found, but rather cultivated over time.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: circastes]
#19113965 - 11/10/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: I'm starting to think philosophical contemplation is the beginnings of depression or a form of depression itself and brain chemicals alone determine your state of happiness, and your natural apprehension of life is enough.
I think the opposite. Philosophical contemplation I believe allows one to understand that any emotion/state of being will pass.
If one doesn't understand this idea, they may actually believe they are sadness instead of just the temporary feeling of sadness.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: My whole life has been a quest to find meaning and the failure to do so. When i do accept the absurd it basically results in depression because i accept my life has no meaning. Is it possible to be happy while accepting the absurd?
I'll get back to you. So far though the success rate is limited.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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absols
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: Icelander]
#19115199 - 11/10/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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dont accept it, why should you get angry if you reject anything ? this is absurd
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: Libertin]
#19117260 - 11/10/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is meaning in my life. Meaning in the relationships i have with people, but those people are just as clueless about whats really going on as i am. It's just really hard to accept the absurd. I constantly fight to find closure and create a narrative to live by, but i know all the narratives are bullshit. I wish my perspective about my life didn't fall into this existential worldview but it just does. I haven't read camus specifically but he does define the absurd in the same way i do which i got from other philosophers. If i'm going to be honest with myself i have to accept there will be no closure it's just harder said than done.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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absols
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define the word absurd ... you dont seem to know what that mean
like other people keep saying love is everything but how is it anything when it is only a word to use for anything, since it is not the least of reality to point objectively
you are doing the same with the word absurd
i told you what is absurd, this is absurd... using the word absurd absurdly... as if you are creating another mean... for what ?
to me by mentionning sartre you are proving the fallacy of it
sartre was a writer, his job was to create fallacy, it wasnt a study or philosophical ranting about absurdity...it was a story
and if you mean what life look like being stories written before they seem to be living, well it is not absurd but it clearly point powerful entities that dont give any to true existence while existing only by forcing poor conscious beings to play their roles in whatever creepy or useless story, this is not absurd this is logical ... would you give the truth anything yourself ? or would you enjoy using everything for yourself comfortable stable life if you got that chance ??
how is it absurd when you didnt create the body you are using as if it is yourself being when you cant be your body source, it means that there is other sources which logically wont care about you as a conscious in there
killing one another to live is not absurd, is the way of being to everything
being nice to one another is to die, logically you cant mean another being out of yourself being, you would die abstractly by the least of that meaning honestly being ..
what is absurd is that insistence to always invent something else, creating other issues that dont exist as if there werent enough issues already ...
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: absols]
#19121664 - 11/11/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm using absurd as it's defined in relationship to existentialism. Searching to find meaning in the world and the inability to do so.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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NetDiver
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"One must imagine Sisyphus happy." - Albert Camus.
...Really though I just do tons of drugs and write; that's my answer.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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What's absurd, the searching itself or the inability to find?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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In the short term. A matter of minutes. Everything is absurd as the contexts rapidly shift. What may not shift so quickly are your personally cultivated values
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: Rahz]
#19123886 - 11/11/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: What's absurd, the searching itself or the inability to find?
Yep exactly. Don't think of the dictionary word absurd think of the way it's defined by existentialists as absurdism. Google "Absurdism" and it should clarify things.
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: "One must imagine Sisyphus happy." - Albert Camus.
...Really though I just do tons of drugs and write; that's my answer. 
This used to be my go to move when i was younger until i pissed away 5 years of my life to heroin addiction... now i can't do recreational drugs except for psychedelics but i'm too chicken shit of my own baggage to muster up the courage for that.
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (11/11/13 10:46 PM)
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absols
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: In the short term. A matter of minutes. Everything is absurd as the contexts rapidly shift. What may not shift so quickly are your personally cultivated values
true, but it is not absurd when you know the fact of others and else existence in powers ways, it is just that we are abused atrociously as if we are not there but to serve creations of powerful wills to take advantage from truth being existing but barely a bit, they are happy to keep it that way and less so they can move and live in stable superior free positive eternal conscious stands, starting by forcing an inferior dimension which is us, to get less competitions from stealing of existence truth ways
Edited by absols (11/12/13 06:48 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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The opiate addictions are best saved for old age when the game is about up and you know you've lost. I find great solace in them these days.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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absols
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: Rahz]
#19125238 - 11/12/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: What's absurd, the searching itself or the inability to find?
you saw the fallacy, he is like meaning to find something already existing for him, which is absurd
he wants to be in positive life stories by getting a piece of different cakes created for, but not admitting so, then he invents another story of how there is nothing to get from anyone ...
i am not meaning him of course, i am just still emphasizing on words fallacy in general, we are meant to make wrong sentences all the time to not be able to articulate an objective mean nor to ever talk to each others...
and your question is smart, so i want to try to see the meaning of absurd in positive truth
i think absurd mean the pretense of being true because in positive life of everything being, while not able and never mean to do something individually ... the absurd is how can you be true while you are only through others livings and things beings realities that are by definition not you
i guess it could be the reason of absurd atmosphere, how all are enthusiastic about existing and being and the more we get closer to the fact, the more we see how they dont mean being themselves ...
maybe there is something about objective positive truth, that makes everything and everyone hysterical life for pretending being through that, and forgetting all about basics like they are not being at all to an extent that it is really what they dont care about at all
dont they shout, one life one spirit is the truth of happiness and the object of eternal life in heavens ??...
so actually absurd is the unwilling to find what one mean to seek
or the will to search new means to claim being existence while rejecting all objective right existing meanings
Edited by absols (11/12/13 10:03 AM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:
Rahz said: What's absurd, the searching itself or the inability to find?
Yep exactly. Don't think of the dictionary word absurd think of the way it's defined by existentialists as absurdism. Google "Absurdism" and it should clarify things.
If there's nothing to find, the inability to find it wouldn't be absurd and that would make the searching itself the absurdity. If there's no base desire to 'find the meaning of life' then a desire to find that would be a aberration. That's not to say existentialism is a rarity but it could indicate it's not a requirement for being a human.
I'm just bringing up the possibility that there are more than 3 choices to the absurdity argument.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: Rahz]
#19126377 - 11/12/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is a base desire in me to find out "whats the meaning of life." In a perfect world i would like to figure out a narrative for where i came from, what i'm doing and where i'm going except it wouldn't be a delusion like religion is. Unfortunately i'm left trying to accept i never will and looking for something i will never find. I can't help but look because i tell myself "maybe there is something i've overlooked, maybe it's out there" and it never is...
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
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Do you think an ant (or a redneck) could understand physics if explained slowly?
I submit that if an advanced being explained the ultimate meaning and origin of the universe our tiny monkey brains could not comprehend.
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absols
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you are not your body who knows maybe the miserable body of a particular ant is to kill a true free positive source...
i mean it is not about abilities to comprehend anything, right is simply about objective recognition of else existence too
so when positive standards do not exist, it means that all and everyone is about powers will over objective rights which could be present as conscious beings or superior as true positive things sources
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Do you think an ant (or a redneck) could understand physics if explained slowly?
I submit that if an advanced being explained the ultimate meaning and origin of the universe our tiny monkey brains could not comprehend.
Good point. Maybe i should stop being a pussy and just forget about this stuff and do the best i can with what i've got.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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God, this place is depressing
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full blown human
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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How can you say that about me?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
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Things were a lot easier when i was a junkie but i'd rather have my emotions back and be depressed most of the time then go back to the path of being dead or in jail soon.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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Good choice, imo. You can also use all that angst as creative propulsion instead of smothering it with chemicals. Get to it.
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full blown human
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
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Having to lie to everyone i know and make up stories about why im 24 and still in college is just this huge weight on my shoulders. I wish i could just be honest with people but that's not an option. I gotta just stop being a pussy and put the petal to the medal!
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic



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FYI, I believe it's abnormal to graduate with your degree in 4 years. 5 or 6 is the norm nowadays.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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I know i was just raised in a hyper-neurotic conservative community that sees anyone who doesn't graduate in 4 years is a loser and becoming a doctor, lawyer or politician is what you're supposed to do. Anyways enough of my personal baggage back to absurdism and meaning of life and so on...
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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DisoRDeR
motional



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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: I know i was just raised in a hyper-neurotic conservative community that sees anyone who doesn't graduate in 4 years is a loser and becoming a doctor, lawyer or politician is what you're supposed to do. Anyways enough of my personal baggage back to absurdism and meaning of life and so on...
Sounds like a pretty twisted place. Perhaps you should gtfo and experience the variety of other possibilities for an inherited sense of meaning that people around this world are stamped with. There are many flavours of absurd glaze out there. Get a taste of them all! It may just pass for a meaningful experience if you can wring feelings of awe from your sober cerebrum. Somewhere amongst the mess you might even stumble upon a path with heart.
But don't take my advice. I graduated in five years.
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TheLunatik
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: DisoRDeR]
#19129772 - 11/13/13 02:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The absurdity is having to live all life feeling the world around you and knowing that there's no meanings to it. Because like your life, our civilization will one day have to face an inevitable end. At first, you may think that maybe our civilization was just part of something bigger. But it just doesn't make sense! Why? Just because the universe itself can't have any end as it can't have a beginning. So the true meaning of life would be that their are no meaning. The concept of a Ultimate goal to life would mean that there is an END. If not, it would not be a goal it would only be an event on the still stretching line of time. So the absurdity is trying to make sense with your life when the universe itself doesn't make any.
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absols
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Re: How to accept the absurd? [Re: TheLunatik]
#19129826 - 11/13/13 02:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheLunatik said: The absurdity is having to live all life feeling the world around you and knowing that there's no meanings to it. Because like your life, our civilization will one day have to face an inevitable end. At first, you may think that maybe our civilization was just part of something bigger. But it just doesn't make sense! Why? Just because the universe itself can't have any end as it can't have a beginning. So the true meaning of life would be that their are no meaning. The concept of a Ultimate goal to life would mean that there is an END. If not, it would not be a goal it would only be an event on the still stretching line of time. So the absurdity is trying to make sense with your life when the universe itself doesn't make any.
no that cant be absurd on the contrary, the absurd would be to realize the lack of existence means and to still mean it for yourself being way
what is seen objectively as being negative or wrong in a subjective sense, is immediately translated for being else in truth, the rising of self being in presence of everything, not only because of others present beings
then you would understand better how it is true, that you are not the universe nor to or about it, you are yourself conscious free superiority, willing to realize something positive about yourself or for yourself in being positively present in constant way ..
existence as a whole could be perceived being for productions of more, like being objective superiority without means as being none but for existence value at the end ..
but you are not none ever when you are just the one being you are constantly so you cant mean but yourself best fact as a constant thing, and not nothing from everything for nothing ...this is absurd !
Edited by absols (11/13/13 05:08 AM)
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