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OfflineN2ocean
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Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled
    #19111912 - 11/09/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So, I'm trying to refine, and by refine i mean completely figure out misting.  This current grow is 3 quart jars rye cased w/ 1/5" 50/50 verm/coir.  Not the best approach, i have 50/50 bulk mixed subs going now as well.

I'm getting plenty of stalled pins on these second flushes.  I haven't had a good second flush out of 4 tubs. But i've been getting a lot of side fruiting, and by weight i'm not doing too poorly about 25-35g dry i should get out of each one. 

Am I misting wayyy too much? or not enough?  I try and do it ~3times/day waiting for the water to evap off the top each time,  I've got good FAE and fairly quick evaporation going on.  Lately i've been misting pretty heavily.

Here's a short time lapse of the worst tub, It had a ton of knots form, which turned into a ton of pins, which turned into maybe 5 or 6 fruits which have been picked by now and then the rest have pretty much stalled with the exception of a few slow growers.

(suggest slowing down to half speed)  This is over about 7 hours

Here are some high res pics of that tub







after misting



and here's a video of a misting i'd apply 2-3 times a day.  This one is more than i'd usually do, and only if i can't see any water or moisture on the top of the casing.

(i'm demonstrating on the cakes, b/c i just misted the tubs) but this is more or less what i've been applying lately.)

Is this an absurd amount of water to put onto a casing, w/ pins and all?


Thanks everyone for any input! I know this is a lot to go through, but it's really appreciated.


--------------------
---The mystics subjective experience of his identity with "the All" is the scientist's objective description of the ecological relationship of the organism/environment as a unified field - Alan Watts, The Joyous Cosmology  An excellent, rather short read here----


Edited by N2ocean (11/09/13 08:15 PM)


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: N2ocean]
    #19111982 - 11/09/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That does look like your misting pretty heavily, maybe try misting a little less water each time.

The pins may be getting waterlogged or something.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: N2ocean]
    #19111987 - 11/09/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't even watch the video cause I saw the pics and was all
:horrifying: :thataintright: :beatingtodeath:

Sorry OP but that sub looks like hell :shrug:


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InvisibleMUSH HEAD420
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19112074 - 11/09/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Did you spawn the sub to those bins, if so the sub has retracted away from the walls of the tub, that tells me your sub is dry?

You are the best judge of that. Your sub is terribly uneven as well.


Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/09/13 08:56 PM)


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OfflineN2ocean
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112096 - 11/09/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
Did you spawn the sub to those bins, if so the sub has retracted away from the walls of the tub, that tells me your sub is dry?

You are the best judge of that.





Yea, it's just 3 quarts of colonized rye dumped into the tubs, then cased.  Does misting keep the sub hydrated, or is RH more a factor in this drying out/retracting?  also, some pulling away is normal, but is this pretty excessive?  I put these tubs in fruting conditions on 10/11.  (they were cased on 10/5) if that info helps.


--------------------
---The mystics subjective experience of his identity with "the All" is the scientist's objective description of the ecological relationship of the organism/environment as a unified field - Alan Watts, The Joyous Cosmology  An excellent, rather short read here----


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112170 - 11/09/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
Did you spawn the sub to those bins, if so the sub has retracted away from the walls of the tub, that tells me your sub is dry?




The sub shrinking from the sides during colonization is normal and will happen with a fully hydrated sub as well as a dry one. As the sub flushes and water and nutes are further consumed it will get smaller. I have had subs shrink as much as 50% by the fifth flush. The way to avoid/cutdown on the side pins is to line the tray or tub which will move with the sub as it shrinks, preventing the ideal microclimate from forming.

That sub is not fully colonized or at best its weakly colonized, and that pinset makes me think the shit is contamed. That blackish looking stuff is also not encouraging and the whole thing just looks unhealthy. Sorry OP.


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InvisibleMUSH HEAD420
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: N2ocean]
    #19112177 - 11/09/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yes the pulling away from the edges of the tub is a sign of drying and yours is excessive. Rye needs a very wet casing to keep it hydrated and or dunked before spawning.
The RH mostly comes from your perlite but some of it also comes from your substrate, as FAE comes in it picks up water from both sub and perlite and depending on how much humidity is in the ambient air will decide how much moisture will be sucked from your tub.
You might be able to dunk them with the fruits still on them, idk though, never had to dunk myself. I suggest reading up on dunking or wait for an opinion other than mine. Last thing I want is to give bad info.

BTW you should not try to case with coir, it is not a casing. The purpose of a casing is to provide and lock moisture into your sub. You defiantly want to case strait grains, just not with anything nutritious. 

I am guessing you fruited this as soon as you fail "cased" it, if so this is why it has taken so long to produce anything and why it dried out.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19112195 - 11/09/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It seems in this case it is dry though?

I say this because it is poorly cased grain, and it is likely to dry out.


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OfflineN2ocean
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112302 - 11/09/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)






That sub is not fully colonized or at best its weakly colonized, and that pinset makes me think the shit is contamed. That blackish looking stuff is also not encouraging and the whole thing just looks unhealthy. Sorry OP.




haha it's all good, I agree with you, this sub looks like shit and is performing pretty shittily as well... i don't think it's contamed yet tho, the black is dropped spores, but it certainly could be. also yea, the casings were only about 30% colonized when placed in FC

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
It seems in this case it is dry though?

I say this because it is poorly cased grain, and it is likely to dry out.





Yea I definitely think you're right on this.  The casing really isn't locking in the moisture well.  And from everything i'm reading about misting that would explain why even though i'm trying for all hell to follow everyone's advice it's just not working. Normal misting procedures won't matter because most of the water leeches straight through the casing (i've observed this) it takes a lot of misting to even start to condense on the top.  This can water-log the pins i'm guessing w/o providing them the moisture in the places they actually need it. Hosing down a plant won't do shit if the soils dry kinda thing maybe?

Overall though i'm alright w/ about a dry ounce from each tub, (this ones gonna come in a little less tho).  I've got 3 tubs fruiting w/ sub mixed in evenly w/ 50/50 coir/verm this time so hopefully this works better.  Also I've got another tub w/ rye cased 80/20 verm/coir instead, we'll see if that pans out better.  It does seem to be holding its moisture better so far.

phew, this is fun, thanks for the input!


--------------------
---The mystics subjective experience of his identity with "the All" is the scientist's objective description of the ecological relationship of the organism/environment as a unified field - Alan Watts, The Joyous Cosmology  An excellent, rather short read here----


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: N2ocean]
    #19112334 - 11/09/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh snap, I didn't realize that that shit was just straight grain. I need to drink less and read more :lol: The pseudo coir/black shit casing just looked like a contamed uncolonized bulk sub to me :shrug: Sorry OP but it still looks fucked.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19112388 - 11/09/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

50-50 verm coir is not a substrate I would reccomend, and coir does not belong in casing. Next time do 1 brick coir and 1-2 qt verm for your sub, that's like 1-2:8 verm/coir

When people refer to casing with 50-50 they mean Verm/Peat moss, when using peat moss you must throw in a handful of lime.


Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/09/13 10:07 PM)


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Offlinedragonchildg
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112404 - 11/09/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

50-50 verm coir is not a substrate I would recommend, and coir does not belong in casing. Next time do 1 brick coir and 1-2 qt verm for your sub, that's like 1-2:8 verm/coir


yes definitely thats what i use and i get prolific results every time.


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Offlinedragonchildg
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: dragonchildg]
    #19112424 - 11/09/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok am i getting this right you cased straight grain. forgive me if im wrong but you dont case grain. you need to take your grain and spawn it to your verm/coir. then colonize till the thing turns white with myc. and by white i mean completely white. then fruit and case. but with cubes no casing needed unless you want to. but if you do case dont use coir in the casing.


Edited by dragonchildg (11/09/13 10:14 PM)


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: dragonchildg]
    #19112431 - 11/09/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dragonchildg said:
ok am i getting this right you cased straight grain. forgive me if im wrong but you dont case grain. you need to take your grain and spawn it to your verm/coir. then colonize till the thing turns white with myc. and by white i mean completely white. then fruit and case. but with cubes no casing needed unless you want to. but if you do case dont use coir in the casing.




With strait grain a casing is required and will show results slightly better than pf tek.

With strait grain you do not need more than 2 1/2 inches of sub(grain).


Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/09/13 10:16 PM)


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112476 - 11/09/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok got ya i remember trying that at one point in time never had good results from it though. also great results from the way i mentioned and even better results from more advanced teks.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: dragonchildg]
    #19112495 - 11/09/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

there is a better yielding tek than monotub? I thought the next step after monotub was agar.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112501 - 11/09/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

bingo


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112515 - 11/09/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I seen earlier you said about dropped spores.

Dropped spores can make yields littler. harvest before spores drop.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: dragonchildg]
    #19112516 - 11/09/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

among other things i have had my best with marthas and bulk subs (other than agar). now i combine the two and get 10 fold what i used to get with bulk subs.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19112526 - 11/09/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
there is a better yielding tek than monotub? I thought the next step after monotub was agar.




For me monotub was the next step after agar. Took clones from the only cake grow I did and never looked back. Did trays in SGFC, then mini monos, then monos. Agar was my friend the whole way :lol:


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19112555 - 11/09/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i started with bulk trays right off the bat. in a homemade greenhouse lol. then went to using old pepsi coolers from restraints and bars all with ms lc but now i use agar and have been working with this pe strain for like 6 months. i do use monos how ever just not as much as i use the Martha's. only reason is i have everything automated with micro controllers
so i dont have to do much with them. all growing parameters are checked 3 times a second and if something is not correct the system corrects it for me even the water content of the subs i use.


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: dragonchildg]
    #19112571 - 11/09/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's cool. I want to start with edibles an shit soon, so a GH might be something for me to get started on. But as far as automation goes, IMO nothing beats the set and forget about it for a week that monotubs give ya :wink:


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Re: Short time-lapse, most everything seems to be stalled [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19112590 - 11/09/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah i wanna start in on the edibles too. thats my main goal but no reason not to have fun with learning right lol. but yeah i set and forget  with every run since i started working with the micro controllers. i can actually just open the chamber and pick my fruits and push a button and it will soak and go for second and third flush on its own. all i have to do is harvest. the system took me almost 4 months to perfect.


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