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InvisibleLibertin
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Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 959
Why do we dance and enjoy music?
    #19099778 - 11/07/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Some bird species apparently 'dance' to attract a mate. Can this fact alone explain why humans dance? Human dancing seems to be more diverse and complex than dancing seen in other species and it is optional for us, whereas the male dancing bird of paradise MUST dance in order to impress the female. I don't think this evolutionary/biological explanation satisfies the question. Why do we enjoy music? Why are music and dance so commonly implicated in spiritual practices all over the world?

In my view, there is a divine aspect to both music and dance. The universe is unfolding and we are its outermost extremities in terms of complexity. We are the unfurling tip of the petal of the flower that is the universe. The universe is fractal in nature and our music and dance are merely extensions of this universal patterning. When we dance we are bringing the universe closer to completion by 'filling in' the next pieces of the pattern. When we create music, sing and dance we are in literal harmony with the universe and its goals.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: Libertin]
    #19099802 - 11/07/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The universe is unfolding and we are its outermost extremities in terms of complexity.




You left out 'on earth'. Not very logical to extrapolate the pinnacle of one planet to a trillion-trillion-trillion planets. :nono:


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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19099865 - 11/07/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

The universe is unfolding and we are its outermost extremities in terms of complexity.




You left out 'on earth'. Not very logical to extrapolate the pinnacle of one planet to a trillion-trillion-trillion planets. :nono:




It's true that my statement is loaded with implicit assumptions. But for the sake of brevity, and the hope of keeping the discussion contained to its original topic, I think it's wise to stop short of speculating about other intelligent lifeforms. ^^


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: Libertin]
    #19099879 - 11/07/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Libertin said:
Some bird species apparently 'dance' to attract a mate. Can this fact alone explain why humans dance? Human dancing seems to be more diverse and complex than dancing seen in other species and it is optional for us, whereas the male dancing bird of paradise MUST dance in order to impress the female. I don't think this evolutionary/biological explanation satisfies the question. Why do we enjoy music? Why are music and dance so commonly implicated in spiritual practices all over the world?

In my view, there is a divine aspect to both music and dance. The universe is unfolding and we are its outermost extremities in terms of complexity. We are the unfurling tip of the petal of the flower that is the universe. The universe is fractal in nature and our music and dance are merely extensions of this universal patterning. When we dance we are bringing the universe closer to completion by 'filling in' the next pieces of the pattern. When we create music, sing and dance we are in literal harmony with the universe and its goals.




Music speaks directly to the soul as it turns off thoughts
many activities can turn off thoughts... drumming,guitar,singing,drawing,trance,vision quest in nature

were not our thoughts, so we are more in contact with our divine when they are turned off

be, experience

when thoughts are turned off, time ceases too usually

its interesting about the music,soul connection
seems you can know many people by their music taste, the state of their soul often to some extent


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: Libertin]
    #19099901 - 11/07/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I think it's wise to stop short of speculating about other intelligent lifeforms. ^^




It is 'wise' to state exactly what you mean and spare the hyperbole. You were the one speculating about the entire universe, so can it! :nono:


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19099988 - 11/07/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

The universe is unfolding and we are its outermost extremities in terms of complexity.




You left out 'on earth'. Not very logical to extrapolate the pinnacle of one planet to a trillion-trillion-trillion planets. :nono:




I'm amazed that you bit on that part of his post, of all things.  :lol:  Feeling tired today?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19100032 - 11/07/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

First the (faulty) base assumptions must be addressed before continuing otherwise it is like painting over rust on a car.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19106420 - 11/08/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We perceive rhythms and cadences.
They are equivalent to smells and textures.
When they are environmental, we  are happy to see others notice too.

Dance derives from that I thinks.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: Libertin]
    #19106843 - 11/08/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

In my opinion, dancing is referred to music for the masses, a collective entertainment.

I don't dance to quality music, it's too deep for physical movements, all about the brain and understanding of the music:

QUALITY:


(3:05, 3:32)

Ultra modern quality:




(chopper at 0:51 - highly intelligent)

Obviously, I could move my body to the rhythm of the music but it will merely be with my hands, head or hip intact with the rhythm of an element in the track, like a drum or piano.

Music is perceived in the mind and it will be deeply analyzed there with little focus on my body.


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: Libertin]
    #19106891 - 11/08/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There are many types of music and it goes without saying that different musics serve different purposes.

Music without a pulse is imo purely an expressive and intellectual activity. I can't think of any times I've listened to rhythmically free music and become immersed in it to the point of it being my entire consciousness at that time. Perhaps it is possible, I don't know. I do know it's definitely better facilitated by pulse driven music. Take trance music as an example; the rhythm is obvious and continuously stated yet the music is named after it's ability to put one in such a state. I believe this goes for many kinds of music and dance and is one of the main appealing factors, if not the main factor

Then there are musics which combine both such as western art music (classical, jazz, etc). Much of which is only appreciated by those with musical training as a lot of the language is otherwise not understand or recognised.

Music can tell a story. It can move you. It can be a full body experience of rushes and tingles on par with any. It can induce immersive experiences that ground you in the present moment just as strongly as any form of meditation (ime of course :tongue2:)


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: birdland]
    #19107072 - 11/08/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I did not read through the entire thread but I have read a book about music and the brain.

One theory is that music and language were once one. There are a lot of tonal languages left in the world that could be an argument for this theory.

There are also a lot of similarities in terms of rhythm, melody, harmony and flow.

Viewed from this theory, it is not hard to see why music is so important.

We are social creatures, if music is language and language is music, it is a form of communication, connection, direction, guidance, bonding...

It then establishes our social dynamic which is key to our survival!


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107127 - 11/08/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We are social creatures, if music is language and language is music, it is a form of communication, connection, direction, guidance, bonding...

Music is language, there's hardly any debate about it, other than that :thumbup:

If science is advancement, communication is what's driving it.

Now tell me this is driving humanity forward:





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As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #19107187 - 11/08/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Are you serious?

Gaga is commonly misunderstood. I think she is highly intelligent and takes a piss at art, fashion, fame and pop culture all at once.

She's on the same page as Inez van Lamsweerde's work who combined fashion models with dolls and renderings to make a statement about the objectification in fashion.

Gaga's videos are jam packed with references. Guy Boudin for instance:



I'm 100% sure she is conciously ridiculing everything superficial in the arts and fame.

She doesn't call her fans monsters for no reason.

She sure as hell isn't singing about romance on an interpersonal love level either.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107196 - 11/08/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The Beatles had messages to spread as well... it is just a shame that people get so tangled up in idealising the artist instead of working with their message... But on the other hand, the idealisation is what makes it eternally available to whomever needs to distill a lesson out of it.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107214 - 11/08/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This one is probably a bit too literal but it illustrates the point:



Also:



Edited by GoldenEye (11/08/13 07:14 PM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107442 - 11/08/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Are you serious?

I am deadly serious.  :hehehe:

Gaga is commonly misunderstood.

Gaga is not misunderstood, she and her profile is a money machine. Just like Madonna and Marilyn Monroe.

She puts her hand infront of her eye like every other Hollywood profile does.

I think she is highly intelligent and takes a piss at art, fashion, fame and pop culture all at once.

Highly intelligent?



Her music sticks to my own and others brain like nothing else, repetition is not intelligent, is it? The following post is relevant to Lady Gaga and intelligence - how much does she spend on the whole scene (PR, costumes etc.) around Bad Romance compared to Pat Metheny on his orchestrion? Does the focus lie on MUSIC or fame?

She's on the same page as Inez van Lamsweerde's work who combined fashion models with dolls and renderings to make a statement about the objectification in fashion.

Is fashion intelligent regardless of whether it's rebellious or not?

Gaga's videos are jam packed with references. Guy Boudin for instance:

Aren't Gaga's videos packed with focus on capturing the masses and make money through a "rebellious" profile?

I'm 100% sure she is conciously ridiculing everything superficial in the arts and fame.

She might be ridiculing the general Christian outlook, but what is she representing?



Just like Kesha and Miley Cyrus are hating on behaving according to society. Are they really hating on society or creating it?

She doesn't call her fans monsters for no reason.

Monsters. Is that a cool thing?

She sure as hell isn't singing about romance on an interpersonal love level either.

Why would she not sing about romance but instead bad romances? Makes no sense to me.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107450 - 11/08/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
The Beatles had messages to spread as well... it is just a shame that people get so tangled up in idealising the artist instead of working with their message... But on the other hand, the idealisation is what makes it eternally available to whomever needs to distill a lesson out of it.



The Beatles had fame and through this, money to make.

Just like the next generation One Direction.

:braindamage:


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: liquidlounge]
    #19107479 - 11/08/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Gaga started as a jazz singer, couldn't get recognition. Holds a grudge, wants to make a statement to the stupid public that doesn't recognise good music.

She then starts using pop music and a carefully constructed image to reach the exact audience she wants to educate!! (How is that not intelligent?)

She ridicules pop music, fame and idealisation and calls her fans monsters because she thinks it's a monstrous sin to like the empty, vain pop music she ridicules and replicates, even exagerates!

It is clear as day!


Edited by GoldenEye (11/08/13 08:10 PM)


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107521 - 11/08/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

O, and don't get me wrong... I think her music is terrible in the musical sense.

But her music is, definetely, an attempt to move people away from being sheeple and towards appreciation of purer art forms.


Edited by GoldenEye (11/08/13 08:13 PM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Why do we dance and enjoy music? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19107587 - 11/08/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Gaga started as a jazz singer, couldn't get recognition. Holds a grudge, wants to make a statement to the stupid public that doesn't recognise good music.

She was not good enough to make money on jazz? Show's her skill as a musician IMO.

Here's jazz:


this might be too advanced:


Would you ever picture Lady Gaga being skillful enough participating in something similar?

She then starts using pop music and a carefully constructed image to reach the exact audience she wants to educate!

So the focus lie on her image instead of the music? Like Marilyn Monroe and Madonna. Queens of pop. Pop cultural, music for the masses? Masses being the ones electing Barack Obama?

She ridicules pop music, fame and idealisation and calls her fans monsters because she thinks it's a monstrous sin to like the empty, vain pop music she ridicules and replicates, even exagerates!

She is pop music. Today's queen of pop, hence the masses listen to her, this is very simple. Gaga might call herself rebellious and some sort of opposite to pop culture, just like Bob Dylan, Kurt Cobain and Red Hot Chili Peppers did. Marilyn Monroe was crap but caught a lot of attention, Madonna was more crap but caught as much attention, Lady Gaga is worse but gets even more attention. You could call Lady Gaga the opposite to Monroe and Madonna but ultimately they're very much alike based on how the masses look at them with their drooling faces. Gaga sounds like a direct copy of Madonna as well, she looks up to Monroe, doesn't she?

It is clear as day!

That Gaga and her followers are a pest? Yes.


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