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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19106158 - 11/08/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Then why is half the country receiving government benefits of one kind or another?


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19106184 - 11/08/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

because they can, and they're lazy. :shrug: different issue, isn't it? people being lazy fucks, and people being incapable of providing for themselves are two different things. by taking advantage of welfare or unemployment programs, you're providing for yourself, but by having support from another source but yourself. :lol: it's sad but true. you wanna eliminate laziness? that's an inherently separate issue from eliminating support programs. you wanna eliminate the support for people to reap the benefits from, lazily, that's a separate issue as well. isn't it? i don't know man, i'm just speculating.


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Offlinedark3st
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Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19106195 - 11/08/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Eugenics?


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Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: NWlight]
    #19106243 - 11/08/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:

also thank you for realizing I was being facetious.  people seem to be taking everything I say in this thread literally :rolleyes:



when idiots have to talk about money, they get all offended and defensive and take everything seriously because it'd kill them to "not live in the real world". as if it's a damn good consolation prize to having no real purpose and meaning in life. reminds of someone... starts with P and ends with Saurus.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19106244 - 11/08/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
because they can, and they're lazy. :shrug: different issue, isn't it? people being lazy fucks, and people being incapable of providing for themselves are two different things. by taking advantage of welfare or unemployment programs, you're providing for yourself, but by having support from another source but yourself. :lol: it's sad but true. you wanna eliminate laziness? that's an inherently separate issue from eliminating support programs. you wanna eliminate the support for people to reap the benefits from, lazily, that's a separate issue as well. isn't it? i don't know man, i'm just speculating.




Unemployment as it was previously constituted before the Obama administration sent it into the stratosphere was entirely self funded.  If you take welfare you are not providing for yourself.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19106265 - 11/08/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

you can argue that if you steal some food that you're not providing for yourself, but that someone is providing for you. but where do you draw the line? isn't the Earth and the Sun providing more for us then anyone person can provide for themselves? but that's just hyperbole; my point is more that... if you steal, you might be taking from someone else's ability to provide for themselves, but in turn you can argue that you're ALSO providing for yourself; like a Lioness eating one of her cubs. :lolsy:

whatever, i am not for laziness (though i am guilty of it) or for welfare (which i am not, so goodie goodie me) i'm just speculating again, like i said. don't think i'm trying to argue for my sake. it's just interesting, is all.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19106436 - 11/08/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What have you produced when you steal?  You have in fact thwarted production and thus not only not provided for yourself (you will probably go to jail and be a ward of the state) but you have destroyed something that might have been better spent elsewhere (cop preventing a rape by more vigilant patrol) and the ability of the victim to productively provide for himself.

Let's not try to get too cute, shall we?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19106467 - 11/08/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i don't really care man. i mean, if it's provided, it's providing. if someone leaves some bread out... and you take the bread. yes, it's wrong. i get that. but it's also that the bread is being made available for use; by you taking it, it becomes your provision... even if wasn't yours to begin with. obviously wrong, but it's still providing. :shrug:


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
Stranger
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19106583 - 11/08/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i don't really care man. i mean, if it's provided, it's providing. if someone leaves some bread out... and you take the bread. yes, it's wrong. i get that. but it's also that the bread is being made available for use; by you taking it, it becomes your provision... even if wasn't yours to begin with. obviously wrong, but it's still providing. :shrug:



:facepalm:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: pwnasaurus] * 2
    #19106595 - 11/08/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

don't think my logic is irefutable. go ahead. make your point. oh wait. you don't have one, you just wanna pander. WAH WAH WAH

you could say it was provided for by the person who owned the bread, if it was given. if you take it and it was never provided for, it's stealing... alas though, it still becomes the thieve's provision, as you "stealing" it, makes it yours; at least to a thief, it becomes "theirs", hence their provision.

plus, this is more or less a semantic argument... Pwn. you should probably pull the stick out of your ... you know... hey, wait, i thought you were ignoring me. wth man?


Edited by akira_akuma (11/08/13 04:48 PM)


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InvisibleLynnch
Strangerer
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,886
Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19106665 - 11/08/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Then why is half the entire country receiving government benefits of one kind or another?



Because that is the point of having a country and government. People banded together for their own benefit.

If you want a real answer, maybe you should look at the debate over the minimum wage.  We know about the 10ish% of the pop. that are unemployed. So, by your calculations, whats the matter with the 40% of the country that has a job but needs gov help to make ends meet? They work so its obviously not pure laziness, as you're oft to repeat, that is the issue.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If you take welfare you are not providing for yourself.



Yea, you're providing for your children instead. Although, in most cases, the tax burden you pay your entire life covers any stretches of financial trouble you might happen to go through.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #19106676 - 11/08/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so it's not a black and white issue? my God.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: do rich people... [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #19107014 - 11/08/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Then why is half the entire country receiving government benefits of one kind or another?



Because that is the point of having a country and government. People banded together for their own benefit.




There is no overall societal benefit in subsidizing sloth and failure
Quote:



If you want a real answer, maybe you should look at the debate over the minimum wage.  We know about the 10ish% of the pop. that are unemployed. So, by your calculations, whats the matter with the 40% of the country that has a job but needs gov help to make ends meet? They work so its obviously not pure laziness, as you're oft to repeat, that is the issue.




Who says they need government help?  Government welfare destroys a sense of community.
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If you take welfare you are not providing for yourself.



Yea, you're providing for your children instead. Although, in most cases, the tax burden you pay your entire life covers any stretches of financial trouble you might happen to go through.




The government has never provided me with any help in financial trouble.  Unemployment insurance is NOT, or at least not until recently, government help.  It used to be a fully funded by employers' insurance program.  No taxpayer dollars were involved.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19107053 - 11/08/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

and now, not? what changed?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19107070 - 11/08/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It used to be 26 weeks at half pay up to a maximum per week.  The half pay stayed but the 26 weeks became 100.  It was not funded for 100 week eventualities.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19107122 - 11/08/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so then they stopped because of these eventualities? the lack of foresight caused them to stop, so now who pays for Unemployment?

i'm probably misunderstanding this, i thought i'd get an even simpler answer then that... :lol: there should be a emoticon for a plane flying over head, because that's what happened here.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19107178 - 11/08/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
so then they stopped because of these eventualities? the lack of foresight caused them to stop, so now who pays for Unemployment?




After 26 weeks of funded insurance?  The taxpayer.
Quote:



i'm probably misunderstanding this, i thought i'd get an even simpler answer then that... :lol: there should be a emoticon for a plane flying over head, because that's what happened here.




Here's the deal.  There was an unemployment insurance fund fully financed through employer contributions that provided the benefits as described, i.e. half pay, up to a maximum, for 26 weeks.  Employer contribution rates were determined by their history of laying people off.  If you never layed anybody off your rates went down.  Further, these rates only applied to the first few thousand dollars of payroll.  Thus you only had to be such and such percent on the first 6K of gross on any one employee.

In the recent expansion of the welfare state, unemployment benefits have been extended for shit turds by approximately 4 times to 100 weeks.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19107207 - 11/08/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

in my head, i see a bunch of people getting laid off more, looking to have to find different jobs, and having to go on unemployment more often because they can't find work; thus bad for business and bad for people having to run themselves into the ground.

i still don't get this financial talk, but i think am seeing repercussions of this, in my head, from the little i do understand. am i even close to comprehending what you're saying?

basically it's a loop-de-loop of companies forking out money to pay for people's joblessness, while more people are more often getting laid off, and having to maybe even get on unemployment themselves, thus cycling the problem even more...

:willynilly:

plus, i really suck at this shit. bad. :facepalm:


Edited by akira_akuma (11/08/13 07:35 PM)


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: do rich people... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19107422 - 11/08/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn: I'm seeing good points on all opinions.


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: do rich people... [Re: dark3st]
    #19107452 - 11/08/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i really wish i could comprehend how people make up these numbers and figures and shit... :facepalm: i mean, it seems like a bunch of confusing random binary to me.


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