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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19106056 - 11/08/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.



minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lived on. They should be worked by high school and college kids who need experience in the market place. And since you obviously have no business experience i'll fill you in. Labor costs are usually the most expensive part of running a business. So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.





You're thinking about the "old" american economy, people make careers out of minimum wage jobs today.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman] * 2
    #19106084 - 11/08/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

then fuck them. Sorry but if your an adult and decide that your going to work a minimum wage job for the rest of your life then thats what you deserve.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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InvisibleMe_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19106190 - 11/08/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.



minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lived on. They should be worked by high school and college kids who need experience in the market place. And since you obviously have no business experience i'll fill you in. Labor costs are usually the most expensive part of running a business. So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.





You're thinking about the "old" american economy, people make careers out of minimum wage jobs today.




Many people have no choice but to live on their shitty minimum wage jobs. There aren't very many jobs with decent salaries and benefits anymore. This problem has become structural.


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InvisibleElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,609
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19106224 - 11/08/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

People here are saying if the minimum wage raises, prices of everything will go up.

So ultimately there is no change.  The poor are still poor.  The numbers are just bigger.

And just so people here know, not everyone has access to jobs that pay more than minimum wage.

I find it funny minimum wage is an acceptable practice (which it should be if we're going to do this economy thing) but maximum wage (or earnings) isn't.  Billionaires hoarding billions separate themselves from the reality of poverty.  Just as there is no real food shortage, there is no money shortage.  There is just much disparity in where it all goes.

Why are taxes acceptable (working for dollars you'll never see) but giving to those in need isn't?  Do we all want the world to be a better place?  Or do we all just want OUR lives to be better?


--------------------
Did you know the pen
Is stronger than the knife?
And they can kill you once
But they can't kill you twice
Did you know destruction of the flesh
Is not the ending to Life?
Fear not of the Anti-Christ

- Damian Marley -


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: ElVatoFirme]
    #19106258 - 11/08/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There is a change though. The poor are still poor, but prices for everyone goes up so the middle class shrinks and less jobs are created. Its a net negative not a net neutral.

Quote:

Why are taxes acceptable (working for dollars you'll never see) but giving to those in need isn't? /quote] this statement is actually the reverse for libertarians. Taxes are but welfare and "public assistance" should be provided through voluntary donations


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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InvisibleElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,609
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19106305 - 11/08/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That is an outcome I overlooked, but I believe I did so with the assumption that, if minimum wage were indeed raised, other wages would be as well.

Jobs that currently pay $10/hour would then be considered minimum wage.  I'd be quite surprised to see others jobs not see a pay increase in such an event.  Even if it is just a dollar or two.  Jobs that pay $10/hour are slightly less tedious than flipping burgers, so I don't think the workers would settle for the same pay.

But I am not disagreeing with you. I see your side completely, was merely saying why I thought what I thought.


--------------------
Did you know the pen
Is stronger than the knife?
And they can kill you once
But they can't kill you twice
Did you know destruction of the flesh
Is not the ending to Life?
Fear not of the Anti-Christ

- Damian Marley -


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: ElVatoFirme]
    #19107152 - 11/08/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

INCOME INEQUALITY!  If they are gonna increaase the minimum wage 50% they need to bump the welfare checks and foodstamps up 50%.  Because it 'isn't fair' :smirk:


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OfflinePsychedelicking
The King
Male


Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 133
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught] * 1
    #19107284 - 11/08/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.


--------------------
"I know not which weapons will be used in World War 3, But World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Psychedelicking] * 1
    #19107338 - 11/08/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psychedelicking said:
Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.



:thumbup:


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Offlinemindgnome
Wanderer


Registered: 10/30/13
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Loc: Somewhere
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19107884 - 11/08/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

putting more restrictions on corporations would solve problems.


--------------------
"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome]
    #19107907 - 11/08/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
putting more restrictions on corporations would solve problems.



:doublefacepalm:


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome]
    #19107964 - 11/08/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
putting more restrictions on Government would solve problems.





:awesomenod:


--------------------


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Offlineviktor
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Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19108677 - 11/09/13 01:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.




What about the jobs that inevitably spring up around the goods and services that the minimum-wage worker buys with the higher wages?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: viktor]
    #19108699 - 11/09/13 01:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.




What about the jobs that inevitably spring up around the goods and services that the minimum-wage worker buys with the higher wages?



since running a business will cost more money the cost of goods will increase, inflation will occur. Thus their dollar will have less purchasing power and no new markets will pop up. Thats not how it works. Wealth/value is created out of productivity, not the other way around.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlineviktor
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Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19108740 - 11/09/13 01:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Straight out dogma.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: viktor]
    #19108823 - 11/09/13 01:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if common sense is dogma sure. you can't even formulate a rebuttal you just resort to insult


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: viktor]
    #19109133 - 11/09/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Straight out Economics.



:smirk:


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InvisibleSynthe
Gatorade me, bitch!
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Registered: 11/10/12
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Loc: Three bags of Funyuns Flag
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19109357 - 11/09/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
then fuck them. Sorry but if your an adult and decide that your going to work a minimum wage job for the rest of your life then thats what you deserve.



And then there's the people who've got other factors in their life that force them to stay in a minimum wage job.
The people who work full time and then come home and got people to care for, it's not easy to find time to try to get a better job in all of that. :shrug:


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Synthe] * 2
    #19109635 - 11/09/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

easy? Probably not. Possible? Hell yes. You don't get something for nothing, if you want to move up in this country you need to be willing to work for it. My step mom was pregnant and living on her own at 16, she worked a full time minimum wage job and put herself through nursing school on her own dime. Nows she's the head charge nurse at a major hospital. You get what you put into this world.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19109710 - 11/09/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.




What about the jobs that inevitably spring up around the goods and services that the minimum-wage worker buys with the higher wages?



since running a business will cost more money the cost of goods will increase, inflation will occur. Thus their dollar will have less purchasing power and no new markets will pop up. Thats not how it works. Wealth/value is created out of productivity, not the other way around.




"inflation will occur"

Hard to say how much, since we have the minimum wage at all-time lows in real terms (inflation adjusted), would hiking the rate to $10 cause much inflation? 

There are so many deflationary forces at work today, shipping work overseas, importing cheap products, illegal workers, surplus pool of labor from high unemployment (22%-23% in the real world), and a very price competitive environment.


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