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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour * 4
    #19105742 - 11/08/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.msnbc.com/all/obama-ups-his-minimum-wage-bid

Because you know we don't have enough inflation and job loss as it is. Thank god it can be assumed it won't pass the vote.


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught] * 3
    #19105760 - 11/08/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

All these people who think minimum wage should be 10-15 dollars an hour apparently don't know that the raise in wage will be put on the products they produce.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: B_BOY] * 3
    #19105780 - 11/08/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yep. and discourage employers from hiring more people. $15 an hour for working at McDonalds? Are you fucking kidding me?


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19105788 - 11/08/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: didn't they pass a law in Seattle the other day to raise it to 15 an hour? You thought Starbucks coffee was expensive before, wait till they raise the price.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: B_BOY]
    #19105794 - 11/08/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i don't think it was seattle but some other Washington city.


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19105800 - 11/08/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ahh i thought it was Seattle, either way it will raise the cost of whatever you buy at these places.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: B_BOY] * 2
    #19105834 - 11/08/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah its gonna be fucked haha Inflation for the win!!


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19105859 - 11/08/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Like 80 percent of Americans support it and over half of the conservatives in congress support it


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"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome]
    #19105872 - 11/08/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

source? Not saying it isn't true i just haven't seen those numbers. Well if it does pass it'll be another blow to the economy


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19105875 - 11/08/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

sorry 80 percent of Americans support it.

" A new poll reports that 80% of Americans - including 92% of Democrats, 62% of Republicans and 80% of Independents - are in favor of raising the minimum wage to $10.10 per hour and indexing it to the cost of living."

About.com


--------------------
"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome] * 3
    #19105900 - 11/08/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

80% of Independents




this right here makes me suspect the validity of the poll highly


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome] * 1
    #19105910 - 11/08/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's tough political situation, minimum wage is at a all-time low in real terms, yet hiking it isn't a real economic solution. It's called a deterioration in the US economy, and the trend will continue down for the majority of citizens.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 2,322
Loc: Black Flag
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19105972 - 11/08/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps abolishing minimum wage and creating a maximum wage might better deal with poverty.


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: HalfLight]
    #19105975 - 11/08/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah because a stranger really should tell me how much i am allowed to earn.


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InvisibleMe_Roy
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: B_BOY]
    #19105995 - 11/08/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Me_Roy]
    #19106010 - 11/08/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Who makes the decision on who else NEEDS to spend money? What do you have against those that earn as much as they can, but don't feel they should be forced to just give some of it away?.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: B_BOY]
    #19106012 - 11/08/13 02:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm, maybe not, as it is a wage and you are working for it.
Perhaps more along the lines of maximum wealth.
Not being able to own more that $5 billion for example doesn't seem unreasonable.


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: HalfLight]
    #19106020 - 11/08/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

IF I was one of the super rich and owned a company, I would shut that shit down the minute people told me how much i am allowed to earn or that i should give away some of my money to those that someone else chooses.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Me_Roy] * 2
    #19106027 - 11/08/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.



minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lived on. They should be worked by high school and college kids who need experience in the market place. And since you obviously have no business experience i'll fill you in. Labor costs are usually the most expensive part of running a business. So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Me_Roy]
    #19106048 - 11/08/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.




When you run large budget deficits and print trillions of dollars to fund it, you CAN'T stimulate the economy where the peasants live, otherwise you create heavy inflation, policy makers have no intention of "stimulating" the economy.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19106056 - 11/08/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.



minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lived on. They should be worked by high school and college kids who need experience in the market place. And since you obviously have no business experience i'll fill you in. Labor costs are usually the most expensive part of running a business. So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.





You're thinking about the "old" american economy, people make careers out of minimum wage jobs today.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman] * 2
    #19106084 - 11/08/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

then fuck them. Sorry but if your an adult and decide that your going to work a minimum wage job for the rest of your life then thats what you deserve.


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InvisibleMe_Roy
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19106190 - 11/08/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.

Money in the hands of people who need to spend it (rather than lining the coffers of so-called "job creators") will stimulate the economy.



minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lived on. They should be worked by high school and college kids who need experience in the market place. And since you obviously have no business experience i'll fill you in. Labor costs are usually the most expensive part of running a business. So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.





You're thinking about the "old" american economy, people make careers out of minimum wage jobs today.




Many people have no choice but to live on their shitty minimum wage jobs. There aren't very many jobs with decent salaries and benefits anymore. This problem has become structural.


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InvisibleElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,603
Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19106224 - 11/08/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People here are saying if the minimum wage raises, prices of everything will go up.

So ultimately there is no change.  The poor are still poor.  The numbers are just bigger.

And just so people here know, not everyone has access to jobs that pay more than minimum wage.

I find it funny minimum wage is an acceptable practice (which it should be if we're going to do this economy thing) but maximum wage (or earnings) isn't.  Billionaires hoarding billions separate themselves from the reality of poverty.  Just as there is no real food shortage, there is no money shortage.  There is just much disparity in where it all goes.

Why are taxes acceptable (working for dollars you'll never see) but giving to those in need isn't?  Do we all want the world to be a better place?  Or do we all just want OUR lives to be better?


--------------------
Did you know the pen
Is stronger than the knife?
And they can kill you once
But they can't kill you twice
Did you know destruction of the flesh
Is not the ending to Life?
Fear not of the Anti-Christ

- Damian Marley -


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: ElVatoFirme]
    #19106258 - 11/08/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There is a change though. The poor are still poor, but prices for everyone goes up so the middle class shrinks and less jobs are created. Its a net negative not a net neutral.

Quote:

Why are taxes acceptable (working for dollars you'll never see) but giving to those in need isn't? /quote] this statement is actually the reverse for libertarians. Taxes are but welfare and "public assistance" should be provided through voluntary donations


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InvisibleElVatoFirme
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19106305 - 11/08/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That is an outcome I overlooked, but I believe I did so with the assumption that, if minimum wage were indeed raised, other wages would be as well.

Jobs that currently pay $10/hour would then be considered minimum wage.  I'd be quite surprised to see others jobs not see a pay increase in such an event.  Even if it is just a dollar or two.  Jobs that pay $10/hour are slightly less tedious than flipping burgers, so I don't think the workers would settle for the same pay.

But I am not disagreeing with you. I see your side completely, was merely saying why I thought what I thought.


--------------------
Did you know the pen
Is stronger than the knife?
And they can kill you once
But they can't kill you twice
Did you know destruction of the flesh
Is not the ending to Life?
Fear not of the Anti-Christ

- Damian Marley -


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: ElVatoFirme]
    #19107152 - 11/08/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

INCOME INEQUALITY!  If they are gonna increaase the minimum wage 50% they need to bump the welfare checks and foodstamps up 50%.  Because it 'isn't fair' :smirk:


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OfflinePsychedelicking
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught] * 1
    #19107284 - 11/08/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Psychedelicking] * 1
    #19107338 - 11/08/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psychedelicking said:
Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.



:thumbup:


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19107884 - 11/08/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

putting more restrictions on corporations would solve problems.


--------------------
"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome]
    #19107907 - 11/08/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
putting more restrictions on corporations would solve problems.



:doublefacepalm:


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: mindgnome]
    #19107964 - 11/08/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
putting more restrictions on Government would solve problems.





:awesomenod:


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19108677 - 11/09/13 01:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.




What about the jobs that inevitably spring up around the goods and services that the minimum-wage worker buys with the higher wages?


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: viktor]
    #19108699 - 11/09/13 01:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.




What about the jobs that inevitably spring up around the goods and services that the minimum-wage worker buys with the higher wages?



since running a business will cost more money the cost of goods will increase, inflation will occur. Thus their dollar will have less purchasing power and no new markets will pop up. Thats not how it works. Wealth/value is created out of productivity, not the other way around.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19108740 - 11/09/13 01:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Straight out dogma.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: viktor]
    #19108823 - 11/09/13 01:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if common sense is dogma sure. you can't even formulate a rebuttal you just resort to insult


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: viktor]
    #19109133 - 11/09/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Straight out Economics.



:smirk:


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InvisibleSynthe
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19109357 - 11/09/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
then fuck them. Sorry but if your an adult and decide that your going to work a minimum wage job for the rest of your life then thats what you deserve.



And then there's the people who've got other factors in their life that force them to stay in a minimum wage job.
The people who work full time and then come home and got people to care for, it's not easy to find time to try to get a better job in all of that. :shrug:


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Synthe] * 2
    #19109635 - 11/09/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

easy? Probably not. Possible? Hell yes. You don't get something for nothing, if you want to move up in this country you need to be willing to work for it. My step mom was pregnant and living on her own at 16, she worked a full time minimum wage job and put herself through nursing school on her own dime. Nows she's the head charge nurse at a major hospital. You get what you put into this world.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19109710 - 11/09/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
So yes a higher minimum wage discourages job creation.




What about the jobs that inevitably spring up around the goods and services that the minimum-wage worker buys with the higher wages?



since running a business will cost more money the cost of goods will increase, inflation will occur. Thus their dollar will have less purchasing power and no new markets will pop up. Thats not how it works. Wealth/value is created out of productivity, not the other way around.




"inflation will occur"

Hard to say how much, since we have the minimum wage at all-time lows in real terms (inflation adjusted), would hiking the rate to $10 cause much inflation? 

There are so many deflationary forces at work today, shipping work overseas, importing cheap products, illegal workers, surplus pool of labor from high unemployment (22%-23% in the real world), and a very price competitive environment.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19109718 - 11/09/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you mean disinflationary forces. The currency/economy is NOT deflating. We are getting more and more inflation everyday with the devaluation of the dollar and an increasing cost of doing business.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19109770 - 11/09/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
you mean disinflationary forces. The currency/economy is NOT deflating. We are getting more and more inflation everyday with the devaluation of the dollar and an increasing cost of doing business.




I think there are two types of inflation in the real world, we have individual inflation and business inflation.

There is no denying that individual inflation is real, we have higher costs for food, energy, education, rent, and health care.  The governments statistics deny this fact, but every person knows the truth.

Business inflation (the cost of doing business) is very tame to non-existent for corporations today, with strong productivity gains, outsourcing work, and no wage pressure, corporate America has the fattest profit margins ever. Bottom line, big business does not have any inflation in their overall cost of doing business despite a weaker dollar.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19113739 - 11/10/13 08:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


There are so many deflationary forces at work today, shipping work overseas, importing cheap products, illegal workers, surplus pool of labor from high unemployment (22%-23% in the real world), and a very price competitive environment.




There's also technological unemployment. Machines have been taking jobs from people and shifting more money into the hands of the few people who own them for years now. There isn't really anything  we can do about it . Can't  hold back technology.
  Imagine if the major  auto manufactures went back to building cars completely by hand . Like Bentleys . It would take allot of hands to mass produce a modern  f150 .That would be a shit ton of jobs.
  Now imagine if someone invented a machine to pick oranges and other delicate stuff that requires human hands. You  could send all the illegal farm workers straight back to Mexico .  You could eliminate the jobs they are stealing from us completely .  You would have to hire a few college educated  people to maintain and operate the machines though.
  As tech progresses and seeks to make all of our lives easier and more automated there will be less work for everyone to do. Less jobs available . More money in the hands of fewer people and ironically,  more human suffering.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psilynut] * 1
    #19114011 - 11/10/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:


There are so many deflationary forces at work today, shipping work overseas, importing cheap products, illegal workers, surplus pool of labor from high unemployment (22%-23% in the real world), and a very price competitive environment.




There's also technological unemployment. Machines have been taking jobs from people and shifting more money into the hands of the few people who own them for years now. There isn't really anything  we can do about it . Can't  hold back technology.
  Imagine if the major  auto manufactures went back to building cars completely by hand . Like Bentleys . It would take allot of hands to mass produce a modern  f150 .That would be a shit ton of jobs.
  Now imagine if someone invented a machine to pick oranges and other delicate stuff that requires human hands. You  could send all the illegal farm workers straight back to Mexico .  You could eliminate the jobs they are stealing from us completely .  You would have to hire a few college educated  people to maintain and operate the machines though.
  As tech progresses and seeks to make all of our lives easier and more automated there will be less work for everyone to do. Less jobs available . More money in the hands of fewer people and ironically,  more human suffering.



Thats bull shit. job markets will disappear and job markets will be created. Maybe we should go back to building things in the same method they did the pyramids? That way everyone will be employed! Did we have a sudden influx of human suffering when carriage factories went out of business due to the rise of automobiles?


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InvisibleSynthe
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19114033 - 11/10/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:


There are so many deflationary forces at work today, shipping work overseas, importing cheap products, illegal workers, surplus pool of labor from high unemployment (22%-23% in the real world), and a very price competitive environment.




There's also technological unemployment. Machines have been taking jobs from people and shifting more money into the hands of the few people who own them for years now. There isn't really anything  we can do about it . Can't  hold back technology.
  Imagine if the major  auto manufactures went back to building cars completely by hand . Like Bentleys . It would take allot of hands to mass produce a modern  f150 .That would be a shit ton of jobs.
  Now imagine if someone invented a machine to pick oranges and other delicate stuff that requires human hands. You  could send all the illegal farm workers straight back to Mexico .  You could eliminate the jobs they are stealing from us completely .  You would have to hire a few college educated  people to maintain and operate the machines though.
  As tech progresses and seeks to make all of our lives easier and more automated there will be less work for everyone to do. Less jobs available . More money in the hands of fewer people and ironically,  more human suffering.



Thats bull shit. job markets will disappear and job markets will be created. Maybe we should go back to building things in the same method they did the pyramids? That way everyone will be employed! Did we have a sudden influx of human suffering when carriage factories went out of business due to the rise of automobiles?



Good point from you... technological advancement is inevitable, it doesn't only destroy, it creates jobs as well.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Synthe]
    #19114048 - 11/10/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Buggy whip makers most effected by technology!  Until the S&M boom.  Repurpose your product


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116288 - 11/10/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Psychedelicking said:
Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.



:thumbup:




Well, why don't you two bring back the manufacturing jobs that weren't paying minimum wage, and paid a wage that was livable?

Why was my dad making $17 an hour on a light machinery assembly line in the mid-70's, but today, the same jobs are paying $9-$12 an hour? 

When the manufacturing went off shore, low skill laborers needed to work somewhere, and that is for minimum retail/fast food and similar jobs.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19116297 - 11/10/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I would also like me to show me conclusive evidence that raising minimum wage raises the unemployment rate.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19116450 - 11/10/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Psychedelicking said:
Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.



:thumbup:




Well, why don't you two bring back the manufacturing jobs that weren't paying minimum wage, and paid a wage that was livable?



The only reason they ever got paid that much for that work is because there was no global competition due to WW2.  The return to health of Japan and Europe cut off that gravy train and now China doesn't have Mao and India is just weird..
Quote:



Why was my dad making $17 an hour on a light machinery assembly line in the mid-70's, but today, the same jobs are paying $9-$12 an hour?




I knew some guys who were union auto workers in Tarrytown for GM in the late 70s.  I knew the American auto industry was fucked when I heard about $25 hour broom pushers.
Quote:

 

When the manufacturing went off shore, low skill laborers needed to work somewhere, and that is for minimum retail/fast food and similar jobs.




Did you know that we have an infestation of illegal immigrants who are filling a lot of the low /medium skill jobs and depressing the market value of the employee?


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InvisibleChinChiller
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116459 - 11/10/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well CA will have a 10 dollar minimum wage starting next year. We can see how that will effect CA's economy and maybe see the positive or negative results.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: ChinChiller]
    #19116468 - 11/10/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Errolscool said:
Well CA will have a 10 dollar minimum wage starting next year. We can see how that will effect CA's economy and maybe see the positive or negative results.



CA is gonna have a lot more issues than that.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116471 - 11/10/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Did you know that we have an infestation of illegal immigrants who are filling a lot of the low /medium skill jobs and depressing the market value of the employee?




Because employers don't want to pay American workers the wage the job would demand without hiring illegal immigrants?

Quote:

I knew some guys who were union auto workers in Tarrytown for GM in the late 70s.  I knew the American auto industry was fucked when I heard about $25 hour broom pushers.




Non-union, and non-auto.  That equals, in today's buying power, almost $74.  Yet the light manufacturing and warehouse that still exist won't even pay you $15/hr.


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InvisibleChinChiller
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116475 - 11/10/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Errolscool said:
Well CA will have a 10 dollar minimum wage starting next year. We can see how that will effect CA's economy and maybe see the positive or negative results.



CA is gonna have a lot more issues than that.



CA is doing pretty well now that we have a democratic majority. We are lowering the deficit with smart sequestering and higher income tax.
Also no more gerrymandering of the voting districts by representatives!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19116491 - 11/10/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Did you know that we have an infestation of illegal immigrants who are filling a lot of the low /medium skill jobs and depressing the market value of the employee?




Because employers don't want to pay American workers the wage the job would demand without hiring illegal immigrants?




:facepalm:Employers pay what they have to pay.
Quote:



Quote:

I knew some guys who were union auto workers in Tarrytown for GM in the late 70s.  I knew the American auto industry was fucked when I heard about $25 hour broom pushers.




Non-union, and non-auto.  That equals, in today's buying power, almost $74.  Yet the light manufacturing and warehouse that still exist won't even pay you $15/hr.




That is what it is worth.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: ChinChiller]
    #19116516 - 11/10/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Errolscool said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Errolscool said:
Well CA will have a 10 dollar minimum wage starting next year. We can see how that will effect CA's economy and maybe see the positive or negative results.



CA is gonna have a lot more issues than that.



CA is doing pretty well now that we have a democratic majority. We are lowering the deficit with smart sequestering and higher income tax.
Also no more gerrymandering of the voting districts by representatives!




You got some vicious truth coming your way when the Baby Boomer public servants retire and you have to pay for their pensions.  We'll see what happens after the taxes raise.  It takes a few years to uproot a company.  By the way, a lower deficit is still a deficit.  Gerrymandering?  We'll see the map.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116549 - 11/10/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

:facepalm:Employers pay what they have to pay.




And they have to pay illegals less, which means they line their pockets with more profit, while money is leaving the American economy when it is shipped back to families in Mexico.

Quote:

That is what it is worth.




No, that is what they can get away with paying people when unemployment is so high.  That's why corporate profits are booming.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19116587 - 11/10/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

:facepalm:Employers pay what they have to pay.




And they have to pay illegals less, which means they line their pockets with more profit, while money is leaving the American economy when it is shipped back to families in Mexico.




They pay illegals the same as they pay legals.  Usually they don't know since the border jumping leapfrog has a stolen SSN.  Were you born last night?
Quote:



Quote:

That is what it is worth.




No, that is what they can get away with paying people when unemployment is so high.  That's why corporate profits are booming.




Corporate profits are not exactly booming but they are doing well because they are learning to make do without you.  Progress.  You really should figure out how to make yourself useful.  There's a whole glorious market for stone workers who can speak English.  I bet you could get at least 15 cash or 20 booked.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116644 - 11/10/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Corporate profits are not exactly booming but they are doing well because they are learning to make do without you.  Progress.




So, it is progress that corporations are figuring out how to get rid of employees?  Yet you say that people that don't have a job are bums?

That is some twisted ass logic.

Quote:

You really should figure out how to make yourself useful.




You should really stop trying to tell other people who have no impact on yourself how to live.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19116725 - 11/10/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Corporate profits are not exactly booming but they are doing well because they are learning to make do without you.  Progress.




So, it is progress that corporations are figuring out how to get rid of employees?  Yet you say that people that don't have a job are bums?

That is some twisted ass logic.


  There are plenty of jobs.  Why do you think we have millions of illegal border jumping scum?
Quote:



Quote:

You really should figure out how to make yourself useful.




You should really stop trying to tell other people who have no impact on yourself how to live.




If you didn't have your hand in my wallet I wouldn't give a shit what you did.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19116745 - 11/10/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My hand isn't in your wallet.  Get over yourself.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19116800 - 11/10/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Psychedelicking said:
Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.



:thumbup:




Well, why don't you two bring back the manufacturing jobs that weren't paying minimum wage, and paid a wage that was livable?

Why was my dad making $17 an hour on a light machinery assembly line in the mid-70's, but today, the same jobs are paying $9-$12 an hour? 

When the manufacturing went off shore, low skill laborers needed to work somewhere, and that is for minimum retail/fast food and similar jobs.



Democrat Politicians have supported free trade agreements that have contributed to the loss of American Industry. I blame the Republicans as well, but I doubt someone with such a brainwashed hard on for their party, like yourself, would ever blame a Democrat despite the blantant history to the contrary

I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.


--------------------

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I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19118088 - 11/10/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:


So, it is progress that corporations are figuring out how to get rid of employees? 





Companies don't 'figure out how to get rid of employees'  They figure out exactly how many employees they need to do the job that is required.

Unlike the US Government, in a private company there are no 'non-essential workers'  Only the government who doesn't have to make a profit has people on the dole that aren't necessary. :lolsy:


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19118245 - 11/11/13 12:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Unlike the US Government, in a private company there are no 'non-essential workers'




Bullshit, and you know it.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19118269 - 11/11/13 12:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

First good thing I've seen Obama do in years.
If minimum wage truly kept up with inflation it would be at $22 an hour.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19118298 - 11/11/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Unlike the US Government, in a private company there are no 'non-essential workers'




Bullshit, and you know it.



explain please. If a company did not need workers why would they hire them?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19118318 - 11/11/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
explain please. If a company did not need workers why would they hire them?




Good question, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way.  I know a couple people that paper push or work "IT" for large, multi-nationals that tell me they sit on Reddit all day, take a ten minute smoke break every hour, and really don't do all that much in the way of work.  But, since everything seems to be operating smoothly, they won't be let go.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19118355 - 11/11/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it appears that company has a lot of fat to trim by employing people in unnecessary positions then.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19118377 - 11/11/13 12:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Or they could keep their billions in profits every year and help prop up the economy that made them successful?  What don't you get that not everybody has the capital to start their own business?  What don't you get that not everybody is smart enough to work for anything more than $7.25 an hour?  Why can't you understand that just because somebody is looking to make a profit, they don't overlook the small guys making $30k a year because they can literally hire thousands of these guys for only a few million a year?

Why is it not a corporation's responsibility to put people to work when the system the United States has allowed them to work in has made people billionaires?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19119100 - 11/11/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It isn't about the amount of profit, though.  It's about competing.  Any company with extra, unnecessary employees, can easily be undercut by a competitor without those extra employees. 

Plus you have horrible math skills, dude...thousands of $30k employees would cost far more than a "few million a year."


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19119228 - 11/11/13 06:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"a woman who strives to a mans equal is selling herself short" I know I butchered that quote but I think the message could be applied here. If you gauge your lifestyle by min wage then the same applies.


--------------------
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19119759 - 11/11/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Psychedelicking said:
Minimum Wage isn't supposed to be able to support a family, it isnt supposed to be good pay. it is, supposed to be a SHIT job with a SHIT pay. so that instead of people wanting to stay in the industry, they want to move onto a better Career that they enjoy and pays. minimum wage is for students. this is the whole reason welfare sucks. people just abuse the system.



:thumbup:




Well, why don't you two bring back the manufacturing jobs that weren't paying minimum wage, and paid a wage that was livable?

Why was my dad making $17 an hour on a light machinery assembly line in the mid-70's, but today, the same jobs are paying $9-$12 an hour? 

When the manufacturing went off shore, low skill laborers needed to work somewhere, and that is for minimum retail/fast food and similar jobs.



Democrat Politicians have supported free trade agreements that have contributed to the loss of American Industry. I blame the Republicans as well, but I doubt someone with such a brainwashed hard on for their party, like yourself, would ever blame a Democrat despite the blantant history to the contrary

I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.


:whathesaid:


Tariffs are the only solution in my opinion, but both parties won't even discuss the issue.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19119785 - 11/11/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Tariffs aren't a solution at all.  If we tariff imports, all exports will be tariffed as well.  Imports may be reduced but so will exports. The reduction in exports could easily eclipse any increase in domestic demand for domestic products.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19119886 - 11/11/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Tariffs aren't a solution at all.  If we tariff imports, all exports will be tariffed as well.  Imports may be reduced but so will exports. The reduction in exports could easily eclipse any increase in domestic demand for domestic products.




"all exports will be tariffed as well"

Many exports are already tariffed.

"Imports may be reduced but so will exports"

We run a $500 billion trade deficit every year, we would benefit overall.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: qman]
    #19119905 - 11/11/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps in the short run.  In the long run, however, it would only push up the cost of goods in the U.S. and thus lower the standard of living.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19120281 - 11/11/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Plus you have horrible math skills, dude...thousands of $30k employees would cost far more than a "few million a year."




Must have missed a "0" somewhere on the calculator.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19121411 - 11/11/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
My hand isn't in your wallet.  Get over yourself.



Do you pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year?  We pay over a hundred but a few tens would get you about even with what you consume.  Do you not demand more and more benefits for yourself from the public till?  Yes you do.  Do you not demand higher taxes on the 1%?  Yes you do.  You most certainly are in my wallet.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19121428 - 11/11/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:


I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.



No you aren't.  You're a protectionist.  Own it


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19121485 - 11/11/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:


I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.



No you aren't.  You're a protectionist.  Own it



I said for the most part. What's your veiw on tariffs? You at least agree it's a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government correct?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19121573 - 11/11/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:


I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.



No you aren't.  You're a protectionist.  Own it



I said for the most part. What's your veiw on tariffs? You at least agree it's a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government correct?



I think it is Constitutionally permitted.  I think that trade wars are a fucking disaster and protectionism is for wimpy faggots who can't compete.  Low prices benefit the consumer and if the local worker cannot produce for a low enough cost that his product cannot overcome the huge shipping costs of overseas goods then that twat needs to figure something else out


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19121701 - 11/11/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Timely

http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/11/report-government-redistributes-more-than-2-trillion-in-one-year/

Quote:

Government policies effectively redistributed more than $2 trillion in income from the top 40 percent of American society to the bottom 60 percent in 2012, according to a new study from the nonpartisan Tax Foundation.

The study tracked the beneficiaries of government spending programs largely paid for by taxpayers who are not very big beneficiaries of those programs.

Families in the top 1 percent shouldered nearly half of the more than$2 trillion that was redistributed last year.

The study found that the country’s lowest-income families receive $5.28 in government spending for every $1 they pay in taxes. Highest-income families only receive back 25 cents in government spending for every dollar of taxes they pay.

“So little time, so much to redistribute,” Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney joked at the Al Smith Dinner during the 2012 election, referring to President Barack Obama’s economic worldview. According to the Tax Foundation, the joke was on people like him.






You have got your hand so deep into my pocket you should at least wiggle your fingers so I can get something out of it.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19122619 - 11/11/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
My hand isn't in your wallet.  Get over yourself.



Do you pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year?  We pay over a hundred but a few tens would get you about even with what you consume.  Do you not demand more and more benefits for yourself from the public till?  Yes you do.  Do you not demand higher taxes on the 1%?  Yes you do.  You most certainly are in my wallet.




What are you talking about man.  I've already told you what I made and paid last year.  I don't use any government services, and I pay a positive tax rate.  Stop whining because you make money.  If you don't want to pay taxes, stop working and be poor.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122649 - 11/11/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
My hand isn't in your wallet.  Get over yourself.



Do you pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year?  We pay over a hundred but a few tens would get you about even with what you consume.  Do you not demand more and more benefits for yourself from the public till?  Yes you do.  Do you not demand higher taxes on the 1%?  Yes you do.  You most certainly are in my wallet.




What are you talking about man.  I've already told you what I made and paid last year.  I don't use any government services, and I pay a positive tax rate.  Stop whining because you make money.  If you don't want to pay taxes, stop working and be poor.




http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/11/report-government-redistributes-more-than-2-trillion-in-one-year/

Quote:

Government policies effectively redistributed more than $2 trillion in income from the top 40 percent of American society to the bottom 60 percent in 2012, according to a new study from the nonpartisan Tax Foundation.

The study tracked the beneficiaries of government spending programs largely paid for by taxpayers who are not very big beneficiaries of those programs.

Families in the top 1 percent shouldered nearly half of the more than$2 trillion that was redistributed last year.


The study found that the country’s lowest-income families receive $5.28 in government spending for every $1 they pay in taxes. Highest-income families only receive back 25 cents in government spending for every dollar of taxes they pay.

“So little time, so much to redistribute,” Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney joked at the Al Smith Dinner during the 2012 election, referring to President Barack Obama’s economic worldview. According to the Tax Foundation, the joke was on people like him.






You were in the bottom what?  10%?  You didn't come close to paying your way.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19122758 - 11/11/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:


I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.



No you aren't.  You're a protectionist.  Own it



I said for the most part. What's your veiw on tariffs? You at least agree it's a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government correct?





Free trade is one thing, tarriffs are another.  If you think tarriffs are a good thing you should read about the Smoot-Hawley Tarriff act of 1930.  It's one of the main reasons politiians on both sides usually oppose tarriffs.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19122970 - 11/11/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/11/report-government-redistributes-more-than-2-trillion-in-one-year/




What's your point?

Quote:

You were in the bottom what?  10%?  You didn't come close to paying your way.




The bottom 10% of what?

I'm not sure what more you expect someone going to college and working as much as they can.  Were your precious children working nearly full time while they were in undergraduate?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19125809 - 11/12/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Holy shit I had no idea this forum was filled with so many brain dead conservatives! Get a load f the guy with the Obama tripled the deficit image, like he doesn't know the FY2009 budget was signed by Bush. And get a load of everyone in this thread who hasn't read the Card and Kruger study or the follow ups like Lester, Dube, an Reich. Minimum wage doesn't cause inflation. Go ahead and google CEPR Minimum Wage Employment & The Economist Minimum Wage Evidence Mounting.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19125865 - 11/12/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

where do you think money from a higher minimum wage comes from?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19125869 - 11/12/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The money fairy.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19125904 - 11/12/13 11:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Largely from the richest, but also new wealth is created via a Keynesian stimulus. At a certain point It starts eating in to the middle slightly, then after a critical point it triggers inflation (e.g., if you moved it to 50).

Y'all should try reading research and educating yourself before trying to get condescending. I tutor intermediate macro so any more spoonfeeding will result in me sending you a bill. The links I directed you to have all the answers, international comparisons, meta-analyses, etc.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19125918 - 11/12/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You posted no links.  Here, you should provide sources for your claim since you could just be talking out of your ass.

Unless/until you do that, you have zero credibility.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar] * 1
    #19125924 - 11/12/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Kensyian economics is what got us into this mess in the first place


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19125927 - 11/12/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I gave google key words for two articles, one by CEPR the other by the Economist. I'm on my phone.


Edit

Not to mention, I cited two very famous studies instantly recognizable to anyone who has any business at all pontificating on this topic (Card and Kruger / Lester, Dube, and Reich). But the CEPR paper discusses both of them and some meta-analyses so...


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19125933 - 11/12/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:


I am a free market capitalist for the most part but I do believe the levy of teriffs against foriegners for the betterment of America is a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government. Something both major parties have failed at.



No you aren't.  You're a protectionist.  Own it



I said for the most part. What's your veiw on tariffs? You at least agree it's a Constitutionally authorized function of the federal government correct?





Free trade is one thing, tarriffs are another.  If you think tarriffs are a good thing you should read about the Smoot-Hawley Tarriff act of 1930.  It's one of the main reasons politiians on both sides usually oppose tarriffs.




I really don't think it's fair to dismiss tariffs in today's economic environment because of the Smoot-Havley Tariff act.

Today we are trading with third world economies, today US companies are moving manufacturing operations to third world economies, this never happened in the 1920's.

NAFTA has proven to be a complete failure, all the promises made have never materialized, too bad US worker.

Now another "free" trade agreement is ready to be passed, yet where is the political debate?  Anyone ever hear of the Pan Pacific trade agreement?  Another shitty deal for the US worker in the making, what else is new.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/opinion/obamas-covert-trade-deal.html


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19125989 - 11/12/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
I gave google key words for two articles, one by CEPR the other by the Economist. I'm on my phone.


Edit

Not to mention, I cited two very famous studies instantly recognizable to anyone who has any business at all pontificating on this topic (Card and Kruger / Lester, Dube, and Reich). But the CEPR paper discusses both of them and some meta-analyses so...



So, your source is google...

I'll just assume you're full of shit and act accordingly.

Further, you don't get to determine who can and can't pontificate on any given topic.  I suggest you learn to accept that pretty quickly or your time here at the shroomery will be quite unpleasant.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Me_Roy]
    #19126010 - 11/12/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Me_Roy said:
It's nigh impossible to live on minimum wage in most places.





Thats not true at all.  In terms of purchasing power an American in the US is in the top 10% of humans, and that is with a dependent.  The vast majority of humans in history and the vast majority of humans alive today live and thrive on less resources than an American on minimum wage consumes.  Note that this is purchasing power, it takes into account that a kilo of corn meal is more expensive in New York City than it is in Bogota.

Furthermore, not only is a high minimum wage economically unsustainable - its environmentally unsustainable.  The average American household uses four and a half time the resources the earth can support per household.  The average household income is 50k.  This means that an environmentally sustainable amount of resources to consume is 12.5k worth a year, for a family.  This is the average.  If you want an environmentally sustainable minimum wage it must be equal or lower to this.  Much lower than this if you expect other families to live off of 50k a year.

The minimum wage keeps unproductive rich people richer than both the economy and environment can support.  People on minimum wage fool themselves into thinking they are poor and politicians play on that.  They are not poor, they are rich.
http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/why-give/how-rich-am-i
http://www.globalrichlist.com/
http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2012-10/daily-infographic-if-everyone-lived-american-how-many-earths-would-we-need
http://www.groaction.com/discover/2074/fiveearth-philosophy-americans-learn-live/


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19126026 - 11/12/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're just avoiding information which screws up your world view. Here I took the pain of pasting the links so I can hear more pathetic excuses for why you'll continue believing the shit you want and avoiding all evidence to the contrary.
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/why-does-the-minimum-wage-have-no-discernible-effect-on-employment

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm

And really I will say it again if you don't know anything you have no business pontificating on the topic. Educate yourself first before you go around spreading misinformation or acting condescending.

I hope you enjoy that spoon in your mouth by the way.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126036 - 11/12/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It looks like your source indicates that among economists, there is still much debate whether or not raising the minimum wage hurts employment rates...

So I guess you were just talking out of your ass.

As far as your contempt for the first amendment, I find it reprehensible.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126039 - 11/12/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i can post links to support my view also
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/negative-effects-minimum-wage-laws

your better off actually explaining your position with sources to back it up. posting links/youtube videos without elaboration shows laziness.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126200 - 11/12/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
i can post links to support my view also
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/negative-effects-minimum-wage-laws

your better off actually explaining your position with sources to back it up. posting links/youtube videos without elaboration shows laziness.




Cato Institute :lolsy:

The Koch's very own mouthpiece for advocating economic sabotage.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19126252 - 11/12/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
i can post links to support my view also
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/negative-effects-minimum-wage-laws

your better off actually explaining your position with sources to back it up. posting links/youtube videos without elaboration shows laziness.




Cato Institute :lolsy:

The Koch's very own mouthpiece for advocating economic sabotage.



https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com

an ad hominem i believe.

Do you have a valid argument against their position?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126324 - 11/12/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
You're just avoiding information which screws up your world view. Here I took the pain of pasting the links so I can hear more pathetic excuses for why you'll continue believing the shit you want and avoiding all evidence to the contrary.
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/why-does-the-minimum-wage-have-no-discernible-effect-on-employment

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm

And really I will say it again if you don't know anything you have no business pontificating on the topic. Educate yourself first before you go around spreading misinformation or acting condescending.

I hope you enjoy that spoon in your mouth by the way.




"Educate yourself first before you go around spreading misinformation"

I think you would agree that many highly educated people (economists) disagree on this subject. 

Or maybe the ones that disagree with YOU are uneducated? 

Make your case and stop with the "educate yourself" rhetoric.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126342 - 11/12/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I post a systematic review from a scholarly source reviewing all of the empirical research and meta-analyses. Effectively, I provided a summary of all the empirical evidence. You all on the other hand post some random guy on CATO doing armchair economics. There is literally no empirical evidence that minimum wage increases inflation; your CATO link does nothing to further the empirical case.

I'm not better off "explaining" instead of posting links because there is nothing to explain. Economists looking for the negative effects have not found it. End of explanation - all that is left is to show you the instances in which they've looked and failed to come up with anything.

Yes, many conservative economists are not convinced. Their rebuttal so far has been, "if the empirical results don't match the theory, ignore the empirical results." There is a tradition in economics which has an ongoing feud with empiricism (the Austrians are an extreme and pathological example of this) and that hasn't changed. There are a few like Neumark and Wascherman who have tried to fudge the data, and I guess I commend them for at least being willing to deal in empirical data.

Point is, the economist has made perfectly clear that other countries (Esp. France and Britain) upped the minimum wage with little adverse effects. Scaremongering over effects which have no basis in reality is ridiculous.


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Edited by sytar (11/12/13 01:31 PM)


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126346 - 11/12/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com

an ad hominem i believe.

Do you have a valid argument against their position?




I'm sorry I don't believe an institute founded by people that are:

  • trying to destroy unions
  • trying remove EPA protections so they can pollute without consequence
  • funding the radical right astroturf movement
  • fighting against commodities futures oversight
  • trying to privatize social security
  • trying to destroy the minimum wage
  • funding the anti-choice movement we see across the nation
  • fund seminars and "scientists" that try to claim that climate change isn't occurring
  • financing ALEC (which tries to bring us Voter ID, nationwide stand your ground, trying to make it a crime to photograph animal abuse on farms, and promotes/writes legislation to bolster the prison-industrial complex)


So, once again, I'm sorry that you might call it "ad hominem," but really, you're doing nothing but engaging in "argument from fallacy."


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19126425 - 11/12/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

since you never actually presented an argument how is it that i can engage in an argument from fallacy?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126437 - 11/12/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
I post a systematic review from a scholarly source reviewing all of the empirical research and meta-analyses. Effectively, I provided a summary of all the empirical evidence. You all on the other hand post some random guy on CATO doing armchair economics. There is literally no empirical evidence that minimum wage increases inflation; your CATO link does nothing to further the empirical case.

I'm not better off "explaining" instead of posting links because there is nothing to explain. Economists looking for the negative effects have not found it. End of explanation - all that is left is to show you the instances in which they've looked and failed to come up with anything.

Yes, many conservative economists are not convinced. Their rebuttal so far has been, "if the empirical results don't match the theory, ignore the empirical results." There is a tradition in economics which has an ongoing feud with empiricism (the Austrians are an extreme and pathological example of this) and that hasn't changed. There are a few like Neumark and Wascherman who have tried to fudge the data, and I guess I commend them for at least being willing to deal in empirical data.

Point is, the economist has made perfectly clear that other countries (Esp. France and Britain) upped the minimum wage with little adverse effects. Scaremongering over effects which have no basis in reality is ridiculous.



so basically your argument is that because some economists agree with your view point you should ignore the economists that disagree with you? Thats very intellectually honest of you. Its not nearly as cut and dry as you make it out to be. The nodric countries don't even have a minimum wage. They rely on cooperation between employers and workers.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126439 - 11/12/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
since you never actually presented an argument how is it that i can engage in an argument from fallacy?





You called what I said ("The Koch's very own mouthpiece for advocating economic sabotage") ad hominem, which doesn't automatically mean it's false. 

Now, I have provided a list of things the Koch Brothers are doing, which is why I don't believe a single thing the Cato Institute has to say, why did you ignore it?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19126461 - 11/12/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You tried to discredit the argument made by appealing to your distain of the people who founded the institute, that is a clear ad hominem.

I ignored it because there is no reason for me to respond to that list. I do not see all those things as being bad.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126519 - 11/12/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Once again, just because it is ad hominem, does not make it false.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126532 - 11/12/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Who cares what the "other economists" think if their thoughts are guided by a complete disregard of the evidence? The burden of proof rests with those attempting to make the claim. Bring empirical evidence to bear on the claim or stop making it - don't argue from authority ("some economists still think minimum wage is bad.")


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126654 - 11/12/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Minimum wage prices out unskilled labor. It prevents low skilled laborers from bargaining to allow them to work and gain vital skills necessary to advance in the work place.
This video is a good summary of the concept


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126670 - 11/12/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Abolition of slavery prices out unskilled labor as well.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19126732 - 11/12/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)


Quote:

psyconaught said:
Minimum wage prices out unskilled labor. It prevents low skilled laborers from bargaining to allow them to work and gain vital skills necessary to advance in the work place.
This video is a good summary of the concept






Good job on Introduction to Economics level reasoning but I don't think you understand the definition of empirical evidence. You're reasoning a priori, which is a hop and a skip from what some might call "making shit up".


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19126733 - 11/12/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Abolition of slavery prices out unskilled labor as well.



Do you have a source for that claim?

Even if it's correct, of course, there are plenty of compelling and independent reasons to abolish slavery despite any economic downsides to it.

The same can't really be said of a minimum wage, though.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19126748 - 11/12/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Smith claimed that wage slavery was cheaper than chattel slavery in Wealth of Nations. I found his reasoning compelling. Google to find the section he discusses it if you care (around page 120).


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126750 - 11/12/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Minimum wage prices out unskilled labor. It prevents low skilled laborers from bargaining to allow them to work and gain vital skills necessary to advance in the work place.
This video is a good summary of the concept






Good job on Introduction to Economics level reasoning but I don't think you understand the definition of empirical evidence. You're reasoning a priori, which is a hop and a skip from what some might call "making shit up".



see unlike you i can argue my position :shrug: you have yet to argue your point of view besides appeals to authority.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126758 - 11/12/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
Smith claimed that wage slavery was cheaper than chattel slavery in Wealth of Nations. I found his reasoning compelling. Google to find the section he discusses it if you care (around page 120).



i don't care what smith claims. Even if slavery comes out to be cheaper (which is suspect considering how expensive slaves were), the production level most certainly were not higher with slavery.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19126793 - 11/12/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Abolition of slavery prices out unskilled labor as well.



Do you have a source for that claim?

Even if it's correct, of course, there are plenty of compelling and independent reasons to abolish slavery despite any economic downsides to it.

The same can't really be said of a minimum wage, though.




So there aren't any compelling and independent reasons to abolish minimum wage, despite any economic downsides to it?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19126801 - 11/12/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not that I can think of.  No one has presented one in this thread, either.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126803 - 11/12/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
Holy shit I had no idea this forum was filled with so many brain dead conservatives! Get a load f the guy with the Obama tripled the deficit image, like he doesn't know the FY2009 budget was signed by Bush. And get a load of everyone in this thread who hasn't read the Card and Kruger study or the follow ups like Lester, Dube, an Reich. Minimum wage doesn't cause inflation. Go ahead and google CEPR Minimum Wage Employment & The Economist Minimum Wage Evidence Mounting.



Here we have another child who just came of Shroomery age that does not know that Congress (Dem both sides for 2009) sets the budget and not the President.  Also, Bush was nobody's idea of conservative. 

Your two links cite moderate increases as having no effect.  What does that mean?  Further, a federal minimium wage is idiotic, as I have clearly established, due to disparate costs of living.  You have to make a shit load more money to live in SF than you do to live in Fargo.  A minimum wage is none of the federal government's business.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19126812 - 11/12/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
Smith claimed that wage slavery was cheaper than chattel slavery in Wealth of Nations. I found his reasoning compelling. Google to find the section he discusses it if you care (around page 120).



Why are these tyros so lazy?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19126912 - 11/12/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why won't he spoonfeed me everything? So lazy! I'm on a phone but have no obligation to educate. I'll give you links when I get a check. Until then, do your own damn research and stop begging for handouts. You should be grateful I gave you a lead, not bitching about how you're entitled to more!

2009FY budget was passed before Obama even took office. Can you not read your signature?  Not to mention that the 2009FY budget was proposed by Bush, but that's besides the point since your sig is wrong no matter which way you slice it. That signature is so dumb it makes me think that you're one of those people who don't know the difference between the debt and the deficit. The deficit tripled around the global financial crises, as tax revenues slumped to new lows? I'm shocked.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19127004 - 11/12/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
Why won't he spoonfeed me everything? So lazy! I'm on a phone but have no obligation to educate. I'll give you links when I get a check. Until then, do your own damn research and stop begging for handouts. You should be grateful I gave you a lead, not bitching about how you're entitled to more!




That's not how it works here Mary.  You make an assertion you back it up.  So lazy.
Quote:



2009FY budget was passed before Obama even took office. Can you not read your signature?  Not to mention that the 2009FY budget was proposed by Bush, but that's besides the point since your sig is wrong no matter which way you slice it. That signature is so dumb it makes me think that you're one of those people who don't know the difference between the debt and the deficit. The deficit tripled around the global financial crises, as tax revenues slumped to new lows? I'm shocked.




What part of budgets being the purview of Congress did you not understand?  Was the budget that was passed the same as was proposed by Bush?  Obama has proposed a budget every year.  They have never once been passed.  I am fully cognizant of the difference between the debt and the deficit.  Unlike your President, who doesn't seem to realize that decreasing the deficit still increases the debt.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127019 - 11/12/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What part of your signature do you not understand? It credits Obama with the FY2009 budget - wrongly. Are you mental? You can't credit Obama for the deficit if he wasn't even in office. Shut up about Congress; change the signature to "the democrats" if you want to play it that way.




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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19127081 - 11/12/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
What part of your signature do you not understand? It credits Obama with the FY2009 budget - wrongly. Are you mental? You can't credit Obama for the deficit if he wasn't even in office. Shut up about Congress; change the signature to "the democrats" if you want to play it that way.







Was he not in the Senate?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127097 - 11/12/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget

Quote:

The final spending bills for the budget were not signed into law until March 11, 2009 by President Barack Obama, nearly five and a half months after the fiscal year began.





Not only did he vote for it but he signed it as President.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127141 - 11/12/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh SNAP!


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127163 - 11/12/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget

Quote:

The final spending bills for the budget were not signed into law until March 11, 2009 by President Barack Obama, nearly five and a half months after the fiscal year began.





Not only did he vote for it but he signed it as President.



:rofl2:


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127238 - 11/12/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


Was he not in the Senate?



Well played.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127257 - 11/12/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sytar said:
What part of your signature do you not understand? It credits Obama with the FY2009 budget - wrongly. Are you mental? You can't credit Obama for the deficit if he wasn't even in office. Shut up about Congress; change the signature to "the democrats" if you want to play it that way.







Was he not in the Senate?





Was Bush in the Senate when it credits him with the FY 2000 budget?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127261 - 11/12/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush"

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Oh SNAP!




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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127296 - 11/12/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sytar said:
What part of your signature do you not understand? It credits Obama with the FY2009 budget - wrongly. Are you mental? You can't credit Obama for the deficit if he wasn't even in office. Shut up about Congress; change the signature to "the democrats" if you want to play it that way.







Was he not in the Senate?





Was Bush in the Senate when it credits him with the FY 2000 budget?




No.  The graph doesn't credit him with that budget.  Did you miss the part where Obama signed the fiscal 2009 budget?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127322 - 11/12/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He signed parts of it, yes.

Even people at Cato, which I loathe, don't blame Obama.

http://www.cato.org/blog/dont-blame-obama-bushs-2009-deficit


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127323 - 11/12/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
"The United States federal budget for fiscal year 2009 began as a spending request submitted by President George W. Bush"

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Oh SNAP!







So?  Was the budget the budget that was passed by the Dems and signed by Obama the same one submitted by Bush?  No, it was not.  Sorry.  Obama and the Dems own it entirely.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19127335 - 11/12/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127337 - 11/12/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you want to blame things on congress, then don't have a signature that blames things on the President :lolsy:


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127350 - 11/12/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
He signed parts of it, yes.

Even people at Cato, which I loathe, don't blame Obama.

http://www.cato.org/blog/dont-blame-obama-bushs-2009-deficit



That's all well and good but who controlled Congress?  Dems.  They took both houses in 2006.  The Dems passed it and Obama signed it.  Bush did neither.  They own it.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127359 - 11/12/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127362 - 11/12/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
He signed parts of it, yes.

Even people at Cato, which I loathe, don't blame Obama.

http://www.cato.org/blog/dont-blame-obama-bushs-2009-deficit



That's all well and good but who controlled Congress?  Dems.  They took both houses in 2006.  The Dems passed it and Obama signed it.  Bush did neither.  They own it.



Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
If you want to blame things on congress, then don't have a signature that blames things on the President :lolsy:




Maybe you should calm the hate down for the POTUS if it is "all congress' fault."


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127489 - 11/12/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Redstate - one of the most vile, anti-Obama sites on the internet.

http://www.redstate.com/danmitchell/2009/11/23/blame-obama-for-reckless-spending-but-not-for-the-fy2009-deficit/



Obama signed it and the Dem Congress passed it.  I don't give two shits what somebody posts.  I have facts.  Why do you think it sat on Bush's desk for over 5 months?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19127505 - 11/12/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
He signed parts of it, yes.

Even people at Cato, which I loathe, don't blame Obama.

http://www.cato.org/blog/dont-blame-obama-bushs-2009-deficit



That's all well and good but who controlled Congress?  Dems.  They took both houses in 2006.  The Dems passed it and Obama signed it.  Bush did neither.  They own it.



Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
If you want to blame things on congress, then don't have a signature that blames things on the President :lolsy:




Maybe you should calm the hate down for the POTUS if it is "all congress' fault."




It just says Bush years and Obama years.  I blame DEMS.  They are stupid pieces of shit by definition and Obama is proving himself to be the stupidest of all.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19127522 - 11/12/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It does say "Obama Tripled Deficit" which isn't precisely true, either.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19127545 - 11/12/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Looks right there to me.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Enlil]
    #19127576 - 11/12/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not to mention that the "projection" is dead wrong about where it actually ended up.

Fun fact: 45% of the deficit was due to technical factors in the economy. Less tax revenue because of less business and whatnot. Pew has an excellent though somewhat outdated paper "drivers of the federal debt" about it and about, of course, which policies are driving the debt. Obama's major contribution to the debt was the 900B stimulius which is around 65% of his policy contribution to the debt overall (that calculation is up to date and not included in the paper I had to do that one by hand.) An older calculation is in the paper. As usual, no links, go get it yourself - you know the drill.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19127836 - 11/12/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:
Not to mention that the "projection" is dead wrong about where it actually ended up.




Yes, it was a good bit more
Quote:



Fun fact: 45% of the deficit was due to technical factors in the economy. Less tax revenue because of less business and whatnot. Pew has an excellent though somewhat outdated paper "drivers of the federal debt" about it and about, of course, which policies are driving the debt. Obama's major contribution to the debt was the 900B stimulius which is around 65% of his policy contribution to the debt overall (that calculation is up to date and not included in the paper I had to do that one by hand.) An older calculation is in the paper. As usual, no links, go get it yourself - you know the drill.




Right.  The fact that 70% of new hires are part time has nothing to do with Obama nor does the 30 year high in people of age put of the workforce.

Will any of you children please explain to me why you continue to support somebody who lied to you, spied on you and generally fucked you over a hot griddle?  I'm getting fucked because my policy made the same payments to out of network docs as to network docs.  None of the new policies in NY makes ANY payments to out of network docs.  I don't have to pay the overage.  I have to pay everything.  And the doctor pool is comprised of, how can I be polite, substandard (in Carney parlance) doctors.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19128360 - 11/12/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

FY2011 deficit was 1.3T. You have either poor math or poor sources but probably both.

Funny you mention health insurance. My premiums went down, my deductible went from 5000 to 0. Lab work is covered with a copay now instead of my ridiculous deductible (a few months ago I got hit with 450 in lab work fees my doctor didn't tell me would cost an arm and a leg). My copay went down from 45 to 25. My medication went down from 15 to 5.

I had right wingers insisting that my premiums would go up, etc. Turns out, as usual, they are full of it.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: sytar]
    #19128363 - 11/12/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sytar said:






Let's say for a moment I kind of agree with your arguments in which you advocate raising the minimum wage. 

So, why not raise it to....$20 an hour?  $50 an hour?  Why not raise it o $100 an hour? :smirk:


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19128539 - 11/12/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Can't we all at least agree that if the minimum wage was raised according to increase in inflation that it would be $10.74

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/facts/entry/amount-with-inflation/

I would also like to add, in 1968 my dad was making $12/hr with full benefits at a tool and dye factory. The minimum wage then was $1.60/hr. Now I have very many friends that are in the same field which receive the same $12/hr today. With benefits not as comprehensive.

A simple compromise on the issue could be increase the minimum wage to a even $8.50 and tie it to the rate of inflation. That way it isn't jumped right up to $10 which is a pretty big jump.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19128609 - 11/12/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Let's say for a moment I kind of agree with your arguments in which you advocate raising the minimum wage. 

So, why not raise it to....$20 an hour?  $50 an hour?  Why not raise it o $100 an hour? :smirk:




Did you really smirk at the end of that? That makes the question borderline idiotic if you think that's a clever rebuttal. Once minimum wages exceed MPL then negative effects will come from raising it. The fact that there aren't negative effects from modest increases would indicate that for one reason or another low skill workers aren't getting their full MPL. The CEPR paper outlined quite a few possible reasons this might be. I suggest more reading and less smirking.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19128796 - 11/12/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

sytar said:




Let's say for a moment I kind of agree with your arguments in which you advocate raising the minimum wage. 

So, why not raise it to....$20 an hour?  $50 an hour?  Why not raise it o $100 an hour? :smirk:




Because it doesn't need to be $20, $50, or $100 an hour.  Why do you have to ask ridiculous questions to try and make your shitty point?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19129072 - 11/12/13 10:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

sytar said:




Let's say for a moment I kind of agree with your arguments in which you advocate raising the minimum wage. 

So, why not raise it to....$20 an hour?  $50 an hour?  Why not raise it o $100 an hour? :smirk:




Because it doesn't need to be $20, $50, or $100 an hour.  Why do you have to ask ridiculous questions to try and make your shitty point?




What does it need to be?  And what do you base what it 'needs to be' on?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19129337 - 11/12/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What does it need to be?  And what do you base what it 'needs to be' on?




I'm not an economist, so I usually steer clear of this sort of question.  I'm not sure where the bar should be, but I realize that $7.25/hr when minimum wage employers are giving you 25 hours a week is nowhere near enough to support yourself.

Now, we can have an actual discussion on the subject, or you can ask your ridiculous questions and further show that you have no real interest in the subject, and are only here to make circle-jerk comments like "Well why don't we pay them $100/hr then."


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19129355 - 11/12/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

they are only working 25 hours a week because the employers cannot afford to do any more than that. Why is making them spend more money going to alleviate this problem? You will have layoffs and hours cut back if the minimum wage goes up. And i'll say this one more time.... NOT ALL JOBS ARE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE A LIVING WAGE. What about that is so hard to understand?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19129379 - 11/12/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why are the corporations that are benefiting from the economic system of the country not being held to a standard to treat their employees right?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19129386 - 11/12/13 11:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

people have a choice to work at those companies.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19129416 - 11/12/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
people have a choice to work at those companies.




How do you figure?  If they don't work for minimum wage because they have no skills, what are they supposed to do?  Since you're anti-welfare, where are these individuals supposed to turn?


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19129430 - 11/12/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if minimum wage didn't exist they would have been able to get the necessary skills earlier in life so they would actually be in demand skill wise when it mattered. And i'm not anti-welfare. Just against the current system we have now. I understand everyone needs a little hand now and then. But it should be severely limited.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19131229 - 11/13/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
I'm not an economist, so I usually steer clear of this sort of question.  I'm not sure where the bar should be, but I realize that $7.25/hr when minimum wage employers are giving you 25 hours a week is nowhere near enough to support yourself.





This is a shining example of were you lose grasp with reality in this debate. People who work at fast food, and retail for the most part work pretty mindless jobs. These types of jobs are appropriate for High School students, College students, members of the household who are not the primary breadwinner. They are not meant for the head of a household. Even if you raised their pathetic earning capacity to $10/hr and gave 40hr/week this would be an insufficient amount to be the independent financial supporter of a household with dependents. We can't as a society afford to pay every reatarded little teenager that flips a Burger the kind of money it takes to meet that kind of huge financial obligation. It's really isn't hard to understand and it baffles me that you can't grasp the concept

Now, when it comes to flunkies who can't find better employment as they age they have a range of options. They could for example live in their parents basement, meet other flunkies at their menial employment whose poor life choices have put them in the same boat and work together by sharing rent & other cost sharing measures, or they could try to better themselves maybe. If all else fails I've known some waitresses and bar maids that made damn good money considering their other employment prospects.

Anything is better then being perpetually financially broken. That shit is pathetic. Being a drug dealer is more admirable then being a useless fucking bum


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (11/13/13 03:14 PM)


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19133884 - 11/13/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
I'm not an economist, so I usually steer clear of this sort of question.  I'm not sure where the bar should be, but I realize that $7.25/hr when minimum wage employers are giving you 25 hours a week is nowhere near enough to support yourself.





This is a shining example of were you lose grasp with reality in this debate. People who work at fast food, and retail for the most part work pretty mindless jobs. These types of jobs are appropriate for High School students, College students, members of the household who are not the primary breadwinner. They are not meant for the head of a household. Even if you raised their pathetic earning capacity to $10/hr and gave 40hr/week this would be an insufficient amount to be the independent financial supporter of a household with dependents. We can't as a society afford to pay every reatarded little teenager that flips a Burger the kind of money it takes to meet that kind of huge financial obligation. It's really isn't hard to understand and it baffles me that you can't grasp the concept

Now, when it comes to flunkies who can't find better employment as they age they have a range of options. They could for example live in their parents basement, meet other flunkies at their menial employment whose poor life choices have put them in the same boat and work together by sharing rent & other cost sharing measures, or they could try to better themselves maybe. If all else fails I've known some waitresses and bar maids that made damn good money considering their other employment prospects.

Anything is better then being perpetually financially broken. That shit is pathetic. Being a drug dealer is more admirable then being a useless fucking bum




What's wrong there mush for brains, do you lack the intellectual strength to face your delusion?


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19133963 - 11/13/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The basic fact of the matter is, mostly due to our poor education system, there are people, usually between 18-25, that are trying to rely on minimum wage, or close to minimum wage jobs to survive. 

These people used to be able to graduate high school (or not), go down to the local manufacturing plant, and get a foot in the door for a decent living.

Now we have manufacturing, IT, call centers, and similar positions being offshored, meaning lots of good paying jobs have left the country, and all you have left are jobs that pay shit, or jobs that are beyond the education/intelligence level of a lot of these people.

Yeah, they should have made a more concerted effort not to get into the situation they are in, but man, a bunch of these people are simply not smart enough to steer themselves away from dangerous situations.

If you want to fix the problem, start at the most basic level.  Get all kids, whether from the suburbs or the hood, a quality education that sets them up for a better future.  Provide contraceptives, for free, to any female who wants them no matter what their income level.  Give grants to community outreach teams to help get to the most troubled children, preventing them from committing the same mistakes their parents made.  These are the kinds of things we should be doing, not cutting SNAP benefits and depriving children of essential nutrition.

So, you can sit on your throne, and act like everybody should be able to have it as easy as you did, or you can help create an environment that will help the future generations succeed. 

Oh, and the username is Mush4Brains.  Stop trying to tie it to my intelligence and call me "mush for brains."  Makes you look small and petty.  Not so long ago you tried to pull this:

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
Ridicule if that's how you deal with being wrong all the time




So either live by your words, or be judged by your actions.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19133973 - 11/13/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So are you saying that the american educational system has been a failure?  I agree with you on that point.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19133989 - 11/13/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

and all you have left are jobs that pay shit




thats just plain wrong :shrug: maybe thats all you have exposure to (not meant to be an insult, literally meaning maybe your not aware of them), but there are loads of high paying jobs in this country. There are actually many industries that have a shortage of workers, mainly vocational positions. I had a friend that went to linemen's instead of college and now he makes roughly 90 grand a year. So thats bullshit people are just too stupid to actually pursue a career with a worthwhile ROI. I've never worked a minimum wage job in my life, i never had to. Even when i was 15 i was making $10 per hour working for myself. It all comes down to motivation and drive.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19134004 - 11/13/13 11:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

and all you have left are jobs that pay shit




thats just plain wrong :shrug: maybe thats all you have exposure to (not meant to be an insult, literally meaning maybe your not aware of them), but there are loads of high paying jobs in this country. There are actually many industries that have a shortage of workers, mainly vocational positions. I had a friend that went to linemen's instead of college and now he makes roughly 90 grand a year. So thats bullshit people are just too stupid to actually pursue a career with a worthwhile ROI. I've never worked a minimum wage job in my life, i never had to. Even when i was 15 i was making $10 per hour working for myself. It all comes down to motivation and drive.




For people with no education/training, it isn't as false as you claim it is.  Most of these industries you're talking about require people with some sort of post secondary education.  Something that is out of reach for some people that are dropping out or being graduated from HS with absolutely no people skills, or technical skills.

You think a young kid from the hood wouldn't want to be making $90k/yr?

And congrats on making $10/hr at 15.  I was making almost double that at 13 because I've always been a huge fan of money.  Once again, maybe you should explain to a kid with nothing but a welfare leech mother who thinks it is the school's job to raise them that they can succeed on their own, in something other than slanging bags on the corner.

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
So are you saying that the american educational system has been a failure?  I agree with you on that point.




Yes.  Some people will blame it on unions, others will blame it on standardized testing, some people will blame it on zero-tolerance... I can't give an exact reason why the public education system is failing so many of our youths so much, but I'm sure it has something to do with all of that plus many more factors.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19134010 - 11/13/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i agree.  that's once in a row.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19134031 - 11/13/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maybe you should explain to a kid with nothing but a welfare leech mother who thinks it is the school's job to raise them that they can succeed on their own, in something other than slanging bags on the corner.


what the fuck kind of logic is this? The child grows up incopotent because his mother is a welfare leach therefore your answer is to turn the kid into a welfare leach? I would gladly explain to him that if he wants something better for himself he needs to fucking work for it. there are plenty of people who have escaped poverty. Myself being one of them, my family was poor growing up, raised by a single father who was on welfare for the latter part of my child hood. So don't act like i'm some privileged ass hole. I had no resources and built what i have for myself.


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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19134040 - 11/13/13 11:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

maybe you should explain to a kid with nothing but a welfare leech mother who thinks it is the school's job to raise them that they can succeed on their own, in something other than slanging bags on the corner.


what the fuck kind of logic is this? The child grows up incopotent because his mother is a welfare leach therefore your answer is to turn the kid into a welfare leach? I would gladly explain to him that if he wants something better for himself he needs to fucking work for it. there are plenty of people who have escaped poverty. Myself being one of them, my family was poor growing up, raised by a single father who was on welfare for the latter part of my child hood. So don't act like i'm some privileged ass hole. I had no resources and built what i have for myself.





what are you replying o me for i didnt write that....:confused:


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19134049 - 11/13/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

maybe you should explain to a kid with nothing but a welfare leech mother who thinks it is the school's job to raise them that they can succeed on their own, in something other than slanging bags on the corner.


what the fuck kind of logic is this? The child grows up incopotent because his mother is a welfare leach therefore your answer is to turn the kid into a welfare leach? I would gladly explain to him that if he wants something better for himself he needs to fucking work for it. there are plenty of people who have escaped poverty. Myself being one of them, my family was poor growing up, raised by a single father who was on welfare for the latter part of my child hood. So don't act like i'm some privileged ass hole. I had no resources and built what i have for myself.





what are you replying o me for i didnt write that....:confused:



fixed it. i forget about the reply drop down sometimes :blush:


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: psyconaught]
    #19135746 - 11/14/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
i can post links to support my view also
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/negative-effects-minimum-wage-laws

your better off actually explaining your position with sources to back it up. posting links/youtube videos without elaboration shows laziness.




Cato Institute :lolsy:

The Koch's very own mouthpiece for advocating economic sabotage.



https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com

an ad hominem i believe.

Do you have a valid argument against their position?



He clearly has mush for brains


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Looks like Obama is trying to up the minimum wage to $10 an hour [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19136741 - 11/14/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
So are you saying that the american educational system has been a failure?  I agree with you on that point.



He's a product of it.


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