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OfflineHierophant
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Relationship between Consciousness & Matter
    #19101955 - 11/07/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Some view consciousness as an epiphenomenon of matter, others view matter as an epiphenomenon of consciousness and most, perhaps wisely, don't concern themselves with such topics...

What is your perspective on the relationship between consciousness and matter and what insights or experiences have influenced and helped shape your current view?

~Peace & Love~


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19102137 - 11/07/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Only consciousness can experience matter and I believe matter to be a precursor of it.

In contrast, "Awareness" experiences external to matter though I believe its experience is established by raw essence rather than projection.


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19102354 - 11/07/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

would you mind elaborating? I don't understand your second sentence.


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There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19102467 - 11/07/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I regard "awareness" as the spiritual counterpart to "consciousness".

I see consciousness as being related only to the material world with the consciousness itself being the prime componenet in forming the world (or our experience of it) in accordance with getting what we need from it to prime our being back to identifying its original state as spirit.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19102595 - 11/07/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

To ignore matter as the foundation of consciousness is to disrespect matter. If one disrespects matter then they also disrespect consciousness.

People who have promoted consciousness over matter ignore their own foundation, the creation, and architect, and thus also consciousness. 

From the small comes the great.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: eve69]
    #19102644 - 11/07/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

From the small comes the great.




I wish my gf got that. :sad:


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19104430 - 11/08/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
I regard "awareness" as the spiritual counterpart to "consciousness".

I see consciousness as being related only to the material world with the consciousness itself being the prime componenet in forming the world (or our experience of it) in accordance with getting what we need from it to prime our being back to identifying its original state as spirit.




Personally I view the terms "consciousness" and "awareness" as interchangeable and would use the word "sentience" in place of where you wrote "awareness."

I understand what you're saying though, thanks for sharing.


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There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/08/13 09:05 AM)


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: eve69]
    #19104434 - 11/08/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
To ignore matter as the foundation of consciousness is to disrespect matter. If one disrespects matter then they also disrespect consciousness.

People who have promoted consciousness over matter ignore their own foundation, the creation, and architect, and thus also consciousness. 

From the small comes the great.




You're line of thought stems from the belief that consciousness is derived from matter, have you ever entertained the idea of the opposite?


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19104449 - 11/08/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I believe that consciousness forms the world.


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19104462 - 11/08/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
I believe that consciousness forms the world.




I share this perspective but also ponder the opposite at times, what brought you to this conclusion?


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19104473 - 11/08/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think my so called "trip report" (first post above all) will shine some light on my opinion a little.  My opinion hasn't changed much at all since that experience 10 months ago and has only been reinforced:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17396859


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19104515 - 11/08/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Lol yeah, psychedelics have a way of doing that. My personal experiences with them are also what influenced my perspective of consciousness being the ground of being, then I began exploring spirituality and esotericism which only validated my perspective. Although I "know" I still entertain other possibilities and am more prone to a fluid and adaptable faith than I am to a concrete belief.


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19104518 - 11/08/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hierophant said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
To ignore matter as the foundation of consciousness is to disrespect matter. If one disrespects matter then they also disrespect consciousness.

People who have promoted consciousness over matter ignore their own foundation, the creation, and architect, and thus also consciousness. 

From the small comes the great.




You're line of thought stems from the belief that consciousness is derived from matter, have you ever entertained the idea of the opposite?




I have entertained the idea.  That's pretty much where my mind ends.  I don't see much point furthering the notion since it accomplishes nothing.


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: eve69] * 1
    #19104545 - 11/08/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
Quote:

Hierophant said:
Quote:

eve69 said:
To ignore matter as the foundation of consciousness is to disrespect matter. If one disrespects matter then they also disrespect consciousness.

People who have promoted consciousness over matter ignore their own foundation, the creation, and architect, and thus also consciousness. 

From the small comes the great.




You're line of thought stems from the belief that consciousness is derived from matter, have you ever entertained the idea of the opposite?




I have entertained the idea.  That's pretty much where my mind ends.  I don't see much point furthering the notion since it accomplishes nothing.




Why would you let your mind end? Why not keep exploring the possibilities? It may all just be speculation but you can still grow from your curiosity and the places it takes you


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/08/13 09:29 AM)


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19104866 - 11/08/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What is your perspective on the relationship between consciousness and matter and what insights or experiences have influenced and helped shape your current view?




My experience with consciousness disincarnate opens many doors but I have no proof of anything to show.  Gets me thinking if this is possible than that might be for many things.

I think the answer to the question depends on how we and others were created.

I lean toward the idea that consciousness is inherent and not the sum of its biological parts.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19105016 - 11/08/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hierophant said:
Some view consciousness as an epiphenomenon of matter, others view matter as an epiphenomenon of consciousness and most, perhaps wisely, don't concern themselves with such topics...

What is your perspective on the relationship between consciousness and matter and what insights or experiences have influenced and helped shape your current view?

~Peace & Love~




I try to be realistic in my estimation. If I believe that my thoughts create reality, I only need to know someone with brain damage to see how the physical brain can dramatically change my thoughts. If I believe that consciousness is independent of my brain, or as another poster split it, awareness of the elements in consciousness, I have to ask what evidence there is of this. If I believe the opposite, same question. In both cases I have experiential evidence of both and scientific evidence of neither. So I sit on the fence and only really ponder it for amusement. It hardly matters for my day-to-day. There are much more tangible aspects of my existence to work with and they have a much greater impact on my quality of life.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #19105105 - 11/08/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

... its interesting to think about how thoughts, perception and the experience of consciousness in general is, to a high degree, directed by endogenous chemistry and how we can manipulate and augment our experience by the introduction of nonlocal molecules into the body/mind complex... we reside in an alchemical playground, both in the literal and metaphorical sense.


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/08/13 11:23 AM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant]
    #19105133 - 11/08/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I agree


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineBugler Boy
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Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Kickle]
    #19105148 - 11/08/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote from LSD: My Problem Child, not a direct quote from Hofmann himself but he quoted someone else. Pop it into google for some results.

"Were the eye not sunny,
It could never behold the sun;
If the power of the mind were not in matter,
How could matter disturb the mind."


--------------------
The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"


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InvisibleChronic7
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Posts: 13,679
Re: Relationship between Consciousness & Matter [Re: Hierophant] * 2
    #19105406 - 11/08/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hierophant said:
Some view consciousness as an epiphenomenon of matter, others view matter as an epiphenomenon of consciousness and most, perhaps wisely, don't concern themselves with such topics...

What is your perspective on the relationship between consciousness and matter and what insights or experiences have influenced and helped shape your current view?

~Peace & Love~




I don't really see a relationship as matter is not other than consciousness

We say 'matter' like its actually something but when we look it gets less & less solid the deeper into it we look, ultimately it thins out into consciousness, so there is only consciousness


--------------------


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