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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Supplementing
    #19089051 - 11/05/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I was just wondering.  When people say they supplement 20 percent for instance.  Does that mean 20 percent of the total weight of sawdust or 80 percent sawdust and 20 percent supplement.  Thanks for insight.  I have never really measure exact ratios except for my shiitake.  But now that I have a 50lb bag of wheat bran I can do some higher supplementation on my kings :smile:


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OfflineJeff
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19091139 - 11/05/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

80/20 as stated in your second example.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Jeff]
    #19092148 - 11/05/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Cool. Thanks Jeff!  You been on vacation?  I havent seen you lurking lately.  Hope all is well with you!


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OfflineJeff
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19092168 - 11/05/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have been lurking just not posting much.  Life, you know....


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Jeff]
    #19092203 - 11/05/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Either way, good to see your avatar and your words again!


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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19092247 - 11/05/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks.  :thumbup:


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Jeff]
    #19094419 - 11/06/13 08:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Any idea how the volume of say 100 percent sawdust and a 80/20 supplement compare to each other?  Should I maybe go a little bigger on overall weight?  I may answer my own question before I get a response but we shall see!


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19095317 - 11/06/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

80/20 is by dry mass, volume will get you in trouble.

i suggest investing in one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Weight-Scale-60LB-Price-Computing-Food-Meat-Scale-Produce-Deli-Indutrial-/360703024156?pt=BI_Cooking_Scales&hash=item53fb935c1c

I use one in the lab and one for fresh mushrooms.  the nice thing is they have batteries built in.


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OfflineJeff
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19096342 - 11/06/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am not exactly sure what you mean by your question Cap.


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Supplementing [Re: drake89]
    #19099120 - 11/07/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
80/20 is by dry mass, volume will get you in trouble.

i suggest investing in one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Weight-Scale-60LB-Price-Computing-Food-Meat-Scale-Produce-Deli-Indutrial-/360703024156?pt=BI_Cooking_Scales&hash=item53fb935c1c

I use one in the lab and one for fresh mushrooms.  the nice thing is they have batteries built in.



yes 80/20 is by dry weight for example Weigh out 80 pounds of pellets and add 20 pounds of wheat bran;  then hydrate to carrying capacity.  Remember shiitake will make lots of blobs over 5%. but oysters and pretty much everything else you can supliment at 20% so long as you are sterilizing your sub
we use a cheapo 20$ postal scale for weighing sub.  works fine.  we save the fancy scale for weighing the mush :cool:


Edited by Amanita virosa (11/07/13 06:49 AM)


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19102716 - 11/07/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've got a nice set of certified for trade scales that do up to 40 lbs I think.  The scales linked i looked into till i realised they couldn't be certified for trade but now that i have market scales i may look back into that since I dont have to be spot on with large amounts.  @ jeff-what i kind of meant to say while i know when ppl say a 5 lb block they mean its weight when hydrated, say each blocks dry weight was 5lbs.  Would a 5lbs of sawdust compared to say 4 lbs of sawdust and 1 lb of bran have an overall smaller volume after hydration.  I guess I will do an experiment tomorrow.  A family emergency took me away from life as I know it for a couple days but should be back and rocking it tomorrow.  I came back to a very healthy harvest though of most everything in my greenhouse!  It's crazy how much things seem to grow when you dont see them 5 times a day lol


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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19102768 - 11/07/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't think there would be much difference.  I for the most part gauge my subs to what fits in the bag not necessarily what the weight of the final block is.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Jeff]
    #19102986 - 11/07/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm somewhat the same way.  I have only weighed my final blocks a few times and usually go by equal volumes water/pellets, sometimes slightly less water then measure out a set amount of bran that has been working.  For my shiitakes its been 6 cups pellets, 5 cups water, 1/8 cup bran per bag then spawn around 350-400 ml of spawn.  I want to start playign with these numbers soon too but my system really isn't broke so maybe I shouldnt lol  Now that I can get bran in 50lb bags I will definitley be experimenting more though with kings, oysters, and poplars even.  I did varying amounts of bran for about 9 black poplar blocks though, all uncased, and even though I didnt weight them they all seemed to produce similar yields on the first flush.  One thing I did notice though was the stems were all skinny, except for one bag that I left the sides a good 3 inches or so above sub level.  Very few aborts as well on all but i'm wondering if leaving the bag walls higher has a similar effect to keeping sub level humidity up as would a casing, saving time, money, and effort of casing.  Next round will be cased so I'll be sharing soon I hope!


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Offlinenanncee
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19104636 - 11/08/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Coming from someone who chips his own wood, there is definitely a density difference in bran and the mulch we use. My supplemented bags are smaller than my non supplemented bags at the same weight. I am sure for people are using much finer material wouldn't have the same issue.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19104763 - 11/08/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
I'm somewhat the same way.  I have only weighed my final blocks a few times and usually go by equal volumes water/pellets, sometimes slightly less water then measure out a set amount of bran that has been working.  For my shiitakes its been 6 cups pellets, 5 cups water, 1/8 cup bran per bag then spawn around 350-400 ml of spawn.  I want to start playign with these numbers soon too but my system really isn't broke so maybe I shouldnt lol  Now that I can get bran in 50lb bags I will definitley be experimenting more though with kings, oysters, and poplars even.  I did varying amounts of bran for about 9 black poplar blocks though, all uncased, and even though I didnt weight them they all seemed to produce similar yields on the first flush.  One thing I did notice though was the stems were all skinny, except for one bag that I left the sides a good 3 inches or so above sub level.  Very few aborts as well on all but i'm wondering if leaving the bag walls higher has a similar effect to keeping sub level humidity up as would a casing, saving time, money, and effort of casing.  Next round will be cased so I'll be sharing soon I hope!




That's too much spawn for shiitake; you will get mutants. I'd would go with 1/4-1/2 of that amount.  Its not really going to speed things up to much, it usually takes 3-4months incuabtion either way.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Aleon]
    #19105081 - 11/08/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know if its the strain or what but I have yet to see a mutant after fruiting them for about 2-3 months.  I am using shiitake 75.  I remember reading EM666's threads on it and I think he had the same experience.  I was actually gonna ask others to share what they are using for spawn and supplement rates for shiitake.  How much bran are you using per block at your spawn rates?  Also now that i'm switching from wbs to rye berries, is there a possible difference in nutritional content of these?  Either way I will definitely keep this in mind if I decide to try any different strains out there!  Also It's possible my blocks are just a little bigger than the traditional 5lb block so maybe that accounts for a little bit of my success with this rate.


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19105303 - 11/08/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
I've got a nice set of certified for trade scales that do up to 40 lbs I think.  The scales linked i looked into till i realised they couldn't be certified for trade but now that i have market scales i may look back into that since I dont have to be spot on with large amounts.  @ jeff-what i kind of meant to say while i know when ppl say a 5 lb block they mean its weight when hydrated, say each blocks dry weight was 5lbs.  Would a 5lbs of sawdust compared to say 4 lbs of sawdust and 1 lb of bran have an overall smaller volume after hydration.  I guess I will do an experiment tomorrow.  A family emergency took me away from life as I know it for a couple days but should be back and rocking it tomorrow.  I came back to a very healthy harvest though of most everything in my greenhouse!  It's crazy how much things seem to grow when you dont see them 5 times a day lol



agree with jeff on this. doesnt make much difference in the final weight whether it is sawdust of sawdust/bran  they hydrate about the same.  We weigh our blocks because we sell them.  5.5 lbs once spawned.  5.2 before spawning.  Otherwise, you easily accomodate 6 plus pounds of sub in a unicorn t3 bag.  Our 5.5 lb bag is the equivilent of about 2.2 lbs dry wt of bran sawdust and gypsum per bag.  if we harvest 2 lbs of mush off a block, we are happy cuz thats almost 100% bio. eff. Doesnt always work that way at all though as you know.  sometimes we get a bit more like on shiitake;  sometimes less like on lions mane;  sometimes nothing like when we grow trichoderma instead.:shrug:


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19107394 - 11/08/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Nice amanita!  I was experimenting earlier and settled almost with what you described.  I only did 2 lbs of sawdust/bran altogether and the final bag weights unspawned were spot on 5lbs so I'm on the right track!  I had initially tried somewhere in the area of 2.2 dry maybe a little more and once hydrated they came to around 5.5 but realized I would not be able to fit 4 bags per PC this way.  Hopefully within the next few months I will have enough saved for a couple of the AA 41 qt autoclaves or at least 2 of the 43 qt pressure cookers in which case I will need to find a couple good burners!  I think I have those volumes right but i'm sure you guys know what i'm referring too.  Til then it will be 12 bags at a time divided into 3 cookers per run.  As for the gypsum I quit using it after I experienced some trich after experimenting with it but it may have been the source.  I need to find some good clean organic gypsum if that exists and give it another shot!


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Re: Supplementing [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19107432 - 11/08/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I highly doubt your gypsum was the source of contamination Cap.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Supplementing [Re: Jeff]
    #19109580 - 11/09/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It wasn't what I thought directly caused it but gypsum brings ph down?  I was attributing it to the fact the grows I used it in wouldn't fruit and after the mycelia seemed to set dormant for some time, while other bags I didn't use it in fruited, they eventually showed trich.  Maybe I added too much but I was following what I read others were doing.  I also had read others have the same situation where they directly blamed it.  Either way my grows have been going great for some time and i have 5 different species fruiting together right now so I'm hesitant to mess with it too much. I had also suspected maybe fungicides were present in the gypsum since i used broken dry wall but my investigations showed it not to be.  Thats why if I try it again it has to be horticultural and likely should have been to begin with.


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