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Offlineeagel774
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Large growing room?????
    #19104107 - 11/08/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My wife and i are looking to get heavily involved in mushroom cultivation.I'm retired and have a lot of time on my hands so doing the work is no problem.This is the side of my pole barn we are going to convert into a fruiting chamber/lab area.Are their any good books out their on the best way's to set this up for a year round growing.The room is going to be 16x8 or so and i have an outdoor wood boiler to heat the room to whatever temp i need.on the other side theirs no lento so that's going to eventually be a 32x10 foot long heated greenhouse.Would it be better to just concentrate on the greenhouse or set up the chamber/lab area first and just grow with artificial conditions. In the upcoming summer months we plan on getting started with Shiitake logs as we have an abundance of oak on our property.Whats a good mushroom to start with that has a fairly good yield for newbies.The old barn will eventually be my main fruiting chamber maybe for straw bales or something like that as its always moist.


Edited by eagel774 (11/08/13 06:27 AM)


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Offlinej3544956
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Re: Large growing room????? [Re: eagel774]
    #19104159 - 11/08/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Very nice on your idea!!! I have seen another gentleman on here that has a large scale Oyster production. I'll check back later when I am done with my coffee.


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? [Re: j3544956]
    #19104186 - 11/08/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is the boiler.That black pipe is around 15$ a foot....DAMMMMMMMM!!!!




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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Large growing room????? [Re: eagel774]
    #19106085 - 11/08/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You can check out the Facebook link in my sig for large scale (ish?) grow room pics.  I'm going to convert a 30x60 pole barn soon...


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Offlineleschampignons
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Re: Large growing room????? [Re: eagel774]
    #19106815 - 11/08/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wow everyone one here seems to be throwing down huge grows. Looks like I have to step my game up lol. Curious to see updates as it comes along. Good Luck!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19107310 - 11/08/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.

Reason:
Better suited to the gourmet and medicinal forum.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19107428 - 11/08/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Have you looked into your laws there?  With such a big grow especially it sounds like you will have more than what's needed at market and will be supplying restaurants and speaking with someone from the area to sell any fruits at all you have to have an inspected and approved space by the dept of agriculture.  It'd suck to go through all that work only to be shut down.


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Offlinet3chnobily
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19107923 - 11/08/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Id start indoors.  Set up your clean lab and substrate prep areas.  Lots of shelving.  Several times more space for colonization than what your planning to have in FC.  Then a washable climate controlled grow space with floor drain.  No porous materials. 

Get your bugs worked out over the winter and be ready to get the greenhouse up in the spring.  Start pushing one flush trough the indoor space then kick the blocks out to the semi controlled green house for 2-3 flushes. 

This is a big job that is going to take some time.  I'm almost ready to move into my new space so I know what you have in store for yourself :P  My best advice; Don't cut corners.  Better to take your time and get it right then to rush it and have to do it over in a year.

Good luck


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19109130 - 11/09/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I haven't even looked any USDA guidelines up here yet..stupid government got their hands in everything...Pole barn is going to have heat either way. I use it as a fabrication shop and heat is a big plus.That's a cool set up drake i was checking out your facebook page. How many sq ft are you upgrading to?? Do you get a consistent flushes with a setup like that?The block and conduit shelving works out pretty good from the looks of it.I have tones of that stuff.do they help retain moisture when you wet them down? And thanks for all the help everyone your exceptional Americans....


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OfflineOICU812
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19109192 - 11/09/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You probably have a local agricultural agent.  Contact them to get started with the FDA stuff.


--------------------
--------------
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin

"Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin
----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson


Edited by OICU812 (11/09/13 06:23 AM)


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: OICU812]
    #19109206 - 11/09/13 06:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I love that H Ford statement....Priceless


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19122217 - 11/11/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Something I'm planning on doing once I can build an outdoor grow house is incorporate a boiler to heat and control humidity in the GH, have a built-in steam autoclave, and power a steam generator to help with the electricity. I don't know what else you use the metal building for, but you should start your lab and grow area in there first. Expand into the barn once you outgrow the first grow area. You can produce quite a bit of mushrooms in just the metal building.


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OfflineOICU812
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19122683 - 11/11/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eagel774 said:
I love that H Ford statement....Priceless



:thumbup:


--------------------
--------------
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin

"Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin
----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: ghiajake]
    #19125210 - 11/12/13 06:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What temp's does the steam autoclave need to operate at? My boiler will only go to 195 F.I figured that would be good for pasteurization.Not sure about the autoclave haven't got that far yet.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Large growing room????? [Re: drake89]
    #19125223 - 11/12/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
You can check out the Facebook link in my sig for large scale (ish?) grow room pics.  I'm going to convert a 30x60 pole barn soon...




Not trying to be rude, but you must have never been to a large or even medium scale mushrooms farm.  Take pride in the fact that your a small farm/business.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19125234 - 11/12/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
Have you looked into your laws there?  With such a big grow especially it sounds like you will have more than what's needed at market and will be supplying restaurants and speaking with someone from the area to sell any fruits at all you have to have an inspected and approved space by the dept of agriculture.  It'd suck to go through all that work only to be shut down.




This is innacurate, at least in most states.  You can grow and sell fresh wholesale produce without inspections(though it is possible that others states are different; but michinigan is right next to WI so I'm guessing the rules are similar).  Any time you can keep the gov out of your shit, keep them out.  The best thing about WI is there is no tax on fresh preduce; I don't have to deal with them at all for fresh bulk sales.  Only quarterly IRS tax forms, but I never owe anything on the fresh mushrooms; obviously this is seperate from income taxes.


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: Aleon]
    #19125276 - 11/12/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm thinking a 175.00 license is all i need for MI we have a made in Michigan campaign that's been promoting local produce and other goods.So a lot of the regulations were lifted or suspended until they run out of tax money.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19125367 - 11/12/13 08:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm pretty sure about the law thing.  The guy I spoke with is trying to undertake something bigger now too but has been growing for a while and Michigan is next to ohio which also has the same leaniency on fresh mushrooms as you say WI has but he was shut down from selling fresh mushrooms and limited to sellings kits and what not.  Every state is different no matter how close.  Either way though it's a good idea to find out.  I also know of one other family in Michigan who I was told cultivates but they only sell wild mushrooms.  I'm guessing these same laws prevent them from doing the same.  They are able to sell wild mushrooms because the husband is a certified expert identifier which is the restriction placed on beign able to sell wild mushrooms.


Edited by CAP_TURTLE (11/12/13 08:26 AM)


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19125395 - 11/12/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know here in utah, as long as your are selling direct to consumer, there really isn't much regulation. It's when you begin to sell to retailers that you have problems.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: nanncee]
    #19125437 - 11/12/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Thats the way it is here as well.  I tried a search and wasn't able to turn any direct literature up.  I very well could be wrong and hopefully I am.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19125447 - 11/12/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
Thats the way it is here as well.  I tried a search and wasn't able to turn any direct literature up.  I very well could be wrong and hopefully I am.




You are wrong.  What law prevented them from growing and selling fresh mushrooms? What do you mean "he was shutdown", and why? I have never heard of such a thing.


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Mushroom medicines available at:
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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: Aleon]
    #19125448 - 11/12/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Also, the reason most people are here is "because of their affinity for disobedience." I say fuck em.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: Aleon]
    #19125488 - 11/12/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have no reason not to believe him.  I network with a lot of growers who do not use these forums and that I would not have met had I never looked outside the shroomery. It could be that I misread into it and it was just directed at him selling to restaurants.  I'm not sure but if so I apologize for even getting everyone started :P.  I get a lot of good info here and elsewhere so that's why I'm saying I may be the one who's reading into it wrong.  Until he contact's his ag dept. we may not know for sure either way.  I lost my affinity for disobedience when I had a kid.  That doesn't mean I don't ever go against the grain.  But I try to do so legally.  Last thing I would want is to be doing awesome with my mushroom grows and making tremendous progress just to have it brought to a halt.  From the sounds of it though, he want's to do this so I imagine he will do what it takes to be legal.  At the most it would just require some additional inspections and whatever else.  I was communicating with my ag department before I even  thought to try to increase my production.  Either way everyone is here to help,  thats why I enjoy the company of fellow mushroom growers over anyone else :smile:  And I hope learn all I can from this project in the same manner I have from your experiences Aleon.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19125573 - 11/12/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm gonna jump in now cause I didn't earlier.  But you are dead wrong about being regulated, Cap. As far as I know there is no oversight for farms producing less than a quarter million pounds annually.  You are treated like a regular farm, so there are no rules unless you are in an area, like a city, with zoning restrictions etc.  this is why I'm living out in the country in a county with almost 0 oversight with regard to building codes.

And I'm talking about raw unprocessed mushrooms here.  Value added products is a whole nother ball game.


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: drake89]
    #19125610 - 11/12/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He may live in a city idk.  I inquired further into his experience so I will let all know what I hear back.  I definitely wasn't trying to say I was right or wrong and would prefer to be wrong on this one.  Just relaying info I heard from another Michigan grower so no stone was left unturned.


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19126053 - 11/12/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eagel774 said:
My boiler will only go to 195 F.I figured that would be good for pasteurization. Not sure about the autoclave haven't got that far yet.




I'm a little confused. Doesn't a boiler need to boil water to be a boiler? Here's a link to a chart on the boiling point of water at different pressure ratings. http://docs.engineeringtoolbox.com/documents/926/water_pressure_boiling_temperature.pdf. Average atmospheric pressure is 14.69 psi, so 212F to boil water. Any engineers or boilermakers out there feel free to crrect me, but couldn't a system under vacuum boil water at lower temps? I know RR has a thread on his wood-fire boiler system he used.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Large growing room????? [Re: Aleon]
    #19126960 - 11/12/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Aleon said:
Quote:

drake89 said:
You can check out the Facebook link in my sig for large scale (ish?) grow room pics.  I'm going to convert a 30x60 pole barn soon...




Not trying to be rude, but you must have never been to a large or even medium scale mushrooms farm.  Take pride in the fact that your a small farm/business.




Lol yeah I've (almost) got a monopoly in my state/region on non-button mushrooms.  I reckon there must be some ppl in Atlanta but that's almost 3 hours away.  And I've never been to a farm, so I guess I'm doing pretty well for starting from scratch.  Thanks to GGMM and you guys here!  I was trying to visit OCIU (mike?) but didn't have time when I was in NC.

OT; how to hang straw logs rather than lay them on shelves?  2" square black iron frame/grid?


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19128051 - 11/12/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
I'm pretty sure about the law thing.  The guy I spoke with is trying to undertake something bigger now too but has been growing for a while and Michigan is next to ohio which also has the same leaniency on fresh mushrooms as you say WI has but he was shut down from selling fresh mushrooms and limited to sellings kits and what not.  Every state is different no matter how close.  Either way though it's a good idea to find out.  I also know of one other family in Michigan who I was told cultivates but they only sell wild mushrooms.  I'm guessing these same laws prevent them from doing the same.  They are able to sell wild mushrooms because the husband is a certified expert identifier which is the restriction placed on beign able to sell wild mushrooms.



Mushrooms are considered an agricultural product. No different from a head of lettuce and is not currently regulated or inspected by FDA so long as you do not process it; no slicing, drying, cooking or processing if any kind allowed.  How,ever if you want to sell to any commercial grocery store you will need insurance in your product. Usually six million in liability is what they expect.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19128197 - 11/12/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He was supplying restaurants and I believe that is where the issue arose.  I am so close to attending my first market and am only


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19130121 - 11/13/13 06:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
He was supplying restaurants and I believe that is where the issue arose.  I am so close to attending my first market and am only



There again, large commercial chains will require liability insurance. Otherwise, it isn't a problem. Hopefully the Feds continue to think of mush as a "plant" and stay the fuck out of our business.


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19130122 - 11/13/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm no at all concerned with the regulations in my state I'm quite sure ill have to pay them when i get to that point.It's just a matter of figuring out which crook needs to take my money in order for me to succeed.Isn't that the way it works in just about all of our states.As far as the boiler,its a non pressurized outdoor wood boiler the water is under constant movement and does not boil or i would have to fill it with water every day due to boil over 195 is the max.That's why I'm planing to using it for pasteurization bath's if i can get away with it.....Thanks for all the info


Edited by eagel774 (11/13/13 06:07 AM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19143141 - 11/15/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eagel774 said:
It's just a matter of figuring out which crook needs to take my money in order for me to succeed.




:lol:

Well, it would be funny, if it weren't so true...


--------------------
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-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19432265 - 01/17/14 08:55 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

I contacted the state of MI AG department directly and was told their are no regulations on mushroom production,currently anyway. Does anyone have any suggestions on the most efficient way to set up a 8'x32' fruiting chamber/pasteurization room. My boiler will supply the hot water for the Pasteurization bath and the heat for the entire room. all the spawn prep will be done in the house. Are their any good cost effective climate control systems on the market that will control all the basics like RH CO2 FAE & o2 levels. Has anyone ever made their own on the cheap??


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19432307 - 01/17/14 09:09 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

nothing cheap that controls.  you can dial it in most of the way by sizing an appropriate blower for your room size, and putting your humidifier on a timer.  Otherwise you are looking at $1000+++ for CO2 and H20 sensors/switches.

I would recommend against having your lab and FC in the same room, or even inoculating in your FC if that's what you were talking about.


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: drake89]
    #19432343 - 01/17/14 09:24 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

I'm going to do all the lab work in the house until i get around to setting up a separate building just for the lab stuff.The pasteurization tub will have a constant supply of hot water (150-195)that will leach heat into the room. My plan is to make a tank within a tank that will transfer the boiler heat to the straw water and then all I'll need to do is drain the straw tea and replace with fresh water. I can also tap into the main water tank for a heat source to keep at temp throughout winter. Both rooms will be independent of each other.Have you ever run Pleurotus Ostreatus 012A from aloha??That's what i'm planing to run first as a base crop.


Edited by eagel774 (01/17/14 09:26 AM)


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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19432392 - 01/17/14 09:41 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

You don't need C02 controls, any Grey oysters will tell you if you need more fresh air - in fact you can cut your bills by turning down the FAE when you don't have greys fruiting.



I build this control unit (and another like it) which though not pretty does the job very well for the last 3 years. Digital Humidistat ($20), Digital Thermostat ($15) (heating and cooling), fan speed controller ($30) and mechanical light switches.

The humidity is provided by a mist nozzle in the incoming air stream, it is plumbed to the mains water via a ($10) solenoid controlled by the humidistat.
The amount of air needed depends on how full the room is and what is fruiting - but I don't change it much.

The Switch with the neon indicator is the circulation pump that is wired to circulate chilled or heated water through the heat exchangers in the incoming air stream.

Non of this is complicated or requires more than basic electrical knowledge.


--------------------
Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!


Edited by solarity (01/17/14 09:42 AM)


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Offlineeagel774
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: solarity]
    #19432426 - 01/17/14 09:49 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

have any pics or a parts list that your willing to post?? Im pretty adequate with electrical and making everything myself is the only way for me.....On that note if anyone needs any input on any type of construction projects let me know I've been a carpenter/steel fabricator for 20 + years...although the codes in my state may vary from yours..:-)


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: solarity]
    #19432446 - 01/17/14 09:52 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

sorry did not see the pic earlier..


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19432478 - 01/17/14 10:01 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

The sensors and solenoid were from Sunteck Stores (ie China!) eg humidistat - http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/product-14006239-digital_air_humidity_control_controller_wh8040.html

They have a USA site as well


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Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: solarity]
    #19436765 - 01/18/14 08:17 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Solarity, you rock :headbanger:


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: solarity]
    #19437411 - 01/18/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 12 days ago)

That's nice Solarity do you have that set up on a 220 circuit and then split off from that box to all your mechanical equipment.


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: eagel774]
    #19438126 - 01/18/14 02:28 PM (10 years, 12 days ago)

Yep
- though you are talking 220v bi-phase in the US. In the UK we use 240v single phase which is the equivalent in wiring terms to your 110v which is how you would wire it in the US.
There is very little load, the box is plugged into the socket bottom left. That way I can disconnect both L+N with ease for maintenance and also run a 5A fuse (in the plug) so I can use smaller cable.

However one tip I learned the hard way is to run the lights on a separate circuit. That way when you need to shut it all down to change out a fan or something in the room you can turn on a light and see what you are doing!


--------------------
Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!


Edited by solarity (01/18/14 02:31 PM)


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: solarity]
    #19906246 - 04/27/14 08:04 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Hey Solarity,

I stumbled across this post while researching the wh8040 you got. I am looking to add this to my panel but my concern is with it's longevity. Does it hold up to extended user at high RH? Do you continue to use it after spores are dropped and have you noticed any effect on the sensor? Some of the Humidistats get clogged with spores and stop reading accurately just hoping that isn't the case here.


Thanks


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Re: Large growing room????? (moved) [Re: audiophoenix]
    #19907122 - 04/27/14 12:42 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I have been running a few of these for 2-3 years with few issues. the trick is to wrap a piece of air filter material around the sensor. I killed a sensor with an accidental hose down, but the filter material stops water and spores.

Additional info - It was medium grade filter material from a type intended for spray booths.


--------------------
Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!


Edited by solarity (04/27/14 12:50 PM)


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