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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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BEFORE + AFTER the hyphal knots (pinning)
#19096651 - 11/06/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi all 
It's easy to get a feel for how hyphal knots turn into pins when doing a few internet searches, but not as easy to find info about the prior steps.
What I mean is what is the process that makes the knots emerge?
Day 1, 4 days after casing. Introduced to FC

Next day, FC+1

Next day, FC+2

Next day, FC+3

Next day FC+4

Next day FC+5 (casing + 9) (note to self, Seeds day 0)

Next day FC+6 (casing + 10) started rehydrating the verm casing surface with gentle misting

Next day FC+7

Next day FC+8 (note to self, more fae)

Next day FC+9 (I see a knot turning into a pin bellow the surface)

Next day FC+10 (tiny pin is now above casing surface, at center of picture)
 I just added this in as per time of my last edit
Text bellow is from day one, see nov 17th's reply for first update since first pin appeared. This was originally for help getting a pin, now I will be updating daily to get support for the next phase... (Still, this is my first attempt at this)
I currently have an experiment with lots of hyphal strands extending on the surface of the casing, but no knots yet.
I am looking for your help: I'm wondering when you would consider it time to go to full FAE instead of just GE... Before the knots, when the knots appear, or when knots become pins?
Or is it even earlier... That's what I had done at first. Switching to FAE as soon as I saw the myc show up... But now I've been trying to get the CO2 to build up again to precipitate the formation of knots in the myc strands...
Funny thing though, I could be doing the opposite of what I should be doing... I really don't know...
I'm afraid that if I FAE too soon, I'll over dry my substrate. Also, I've stopped misting since the myc is showing on the surface, even though there are no pins, because I'm afraid of contams and or of damaging the hyphal strands...
Thanks if you have info that could help me...
Ps: you have my word that if this works the forum will have close up pics of pre-knot to post-knot formation from close ups, 2 pics a day... Should be interesting...
Thanks again
Jpack
Edited by jpack666 (11/17/13 01:46 PM)
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19096726 - 11/06/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Full FAE as soon as the substrate is 100% colonized (unless you are doing BRF cakes, then allow a week of consolidation.)
Are you doing a monotub?
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Thadeous]
#19096869 - 11/06/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's a micro environment invitro in a half pint jar... A test... Sub is pasteurized hpoo, cased with verm as soon as I thought it was fully colonized... It may not be at 100% colonisation yet... But yes it is like a micro monotub? Does that mean I should never give it FAE?
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19096911 - 11/06/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am unsure what you're describing. Pictures are worth a thousand posts, you know? Irregardless of the setup, you should absolutely be giving FAE at or shortly after full conlonization of substrate. It is one of the main pinning triggers.. In order of importance, they are: full colonization, FAE, 100% RH microclimate at surface of substrate, and evaporation from substrate. Nail those, and you're 80% there.
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Sgt. Pepper


Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Thadeous]
#19097571 - 11/06/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Once it is 100% colonized give it a really good fanning and misting and continue to supply fae and ample humidity. You'll be seeing knots in no time!
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19097601 - 11/06/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jpack666 said: I am looking for your help: I'm wondering when you would consider it time to go to full FAE instead of just GE
When the substrate is fully colonized.
You do not give it FAE until 100% colonization.
Quote:
jpack666 said: I'm afraid that if I FAE too soon, I'll over dry my substrate. Also, I've stopped misting since the myc is showing on the surface, even though there are no pins, because I'm afraid of contams and or of damaging the hyphal strands...
Nonsense....fruiting is not a sterile procedure....FAE is filled with contams.
A fully colonized substrate is contam resistant.
Just give them lots of FAE after full colonization.....this is all you have to do.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: PussyFart]
#19097975 - 11/06/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What you are seeing is the bottom 2" of a jar... Myc and vermiculite There is about 1/3 of an inch of verm over what I beleived to be fully collonized hpoo mix Myc has been showing in the verm since 3 to 4 days ago so I thought I had to FAE....
Do I need to wait for the verm layer to be fully collonized too?
For now, waiting for more info, I sealed it to build up CO2 and I havent misted in 3 days
Edited by jpack666 (11/06/13 10:07 PM)
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19098161 - 11/06/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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As a newb, if this thing makes 1 pin, I'm happy...
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,338
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 10 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19098171 - 11/06/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You should set your goals a little higher
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Stromrider]
#19098231 - 11/06/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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then... Really it is a print I am after... Nothing less....
Do you think I should give FAE?
Edited by jpack666 (11/06/13 11:16 PM)
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Stromrider]
#19098320 - 11/06/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said: You should set your goals a little higher
Lol, No still psilly, my goal in life in to grow one pin then move on to something else... Don't want want to be owned by the fruit and succumb to its power ;-)
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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MastaBlastar
Ruler Of Barter Town


Registered: 04/06/13
Posts: 1,069
Loc: Barter Town, AUS
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19098593 - 11/07/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jpack666 said:
Quote:
Stromrider said: You should set your goals a little higher
Lol, No still psilly, my goal in life in to grow one pin then move on to something else... Don't want want to be owned by the fruit and succumb to its power ;-)
Owned by the fruit? I did not know psilos were addictive. Honestly I think it is a HORRIBLE idea to trip any more than once a month, and that's a LOT IMO.
EDIT:And not a Hacker, you should have gotten an American made gun safe. I can break into that thing in about 30 seconds with minimal tools or sound. Literally a flat pice of metal, like a slim jim for a car, would work. Beyond that a drill would do it in about 2 min if I can't get at the code reset switch.
-------------------- Everything I have said, may say, will say, am thinking about saying and/or thinking/typing/dreaming/writing is in all likelyhood made up and has no factual basis in reality whatsoever, and is likely all plagiarized and copy pasted straight from someone else, so get mad at them . Just a warning
Edited by MastaBlastar (11/07/13 12:43 AM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Quote:
MastaBlastar said: EDIT:And not a Hacker, you should have gotten an American made gun safe. I can break into that thing in about 30 seconds with minimal tools or sound. Literally a flat pice of metal, like a slim jim for a car, would work. Beyond that a drill would do it in about 2 min if I can't get at the code reset switch.
Not really bro...it is american made....Mesa Safe Company.....manufactured in California.
http://www.menards.com/main/safes/pistols-up-to-14/mesa-safe-6-4-cu-ft-capacity-burglary-and-fire-safe/p-1924404-c-6979.htm
There is no way to pry this thing open, and there is a drill plate....
I highly doubt, without being in top physical condition, and spending a few hours trying with power tools, you will get in.
Reset switch is impossible to hit from the outside.....even with a slim jim....I have tried....the shoulder inside the door stops everything.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (11/07/13 08:52 AM)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,338
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
Last seen: 10 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: PussyFart]
#19101010 - 11/07/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Man I can't believe someone would insult another man's gun safe! Thems fightin words!
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Stromrider]
#19101852 - 11/07/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said: Man I can't believe someone would insult another man's gun safe! Thems fightin words! 
Not in my post... I won't stand for this... Moderators....?
On a side note, how bout tonight with a pic, anyone can guide me I've NEVER done is before. Good news is that's it's a micro environment very easy to control. I can build up the CO2, I could fan, I can easily monitor my RH with condensation drops...
But witha verm layer covered like the one I have, what step am I supposed to be on...
I'm so clueless I just alternate between all steps and keep an eye on it. I'll fan it in the morning, than seal it, than later give it GE only, then reseal it at night... I know how to affect the parameters of the growth but I don't know which ones I should play with to ensure pinning...
Still no knots today... 4th day since myc broke through verm layer
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19102448 - 11/07/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not sure if I have to mist... In case not I don't... Not sure if I should dry out the top verm layer or the opposite... I'm giving it light by the way...
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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MUSH HEAD420
Kush Commander



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 921
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: jpack666]
#19102553 - 11/07/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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If the horse poo is 100% than give it lots of fae, and if it looks like it could take moisture than mist it.
It will take 1 - 1 1/2 weeks after introducing the FAE to see pins, during that time it should dry out a bit (pin trigger). Then after you notice the first pinset take hold you can begin to mist again so the mushrooms get as much water as possible without risking contam.
I do not know how to get FAE into a jar though, I guess you might get away with a couple holes and fanning it out 4 times a day.
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Kagenical
Stranger

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Knots form at the onset of pinning. You want fae, high rh, evaporation and light. Now. Knotting is not a colonization thing. It is a fruiting thing. You're harming yourself right now. Fruit it.
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Kagenical]
#19103105 - 11/07/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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1 day later
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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jpack666



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Before the hyphal knots... [Re: Kagenical]
#19103168 - 11/07/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MUSH HEAD420 said: If the horse poo is 100% than give it lots of fae, and if it looks like it could take moisture than mist it.
It will take 1 - 1 1/2 weeks after introducing the FAE to see pins, during that time it should dry out a bit (pin trigger). Then after you notice the first pinset take hold you can begin to mist again so the mushrooms get as much water as possible without risking contam.
I do not know how to get FAE into a jar though, I guess you might get away with a couple holes and fanning it out 4 times a day.
7 to 10 days of fae to see first pins! I didn't know that at all... Thanks for pointing out the pin trigger of letting it dry out a bit too. I have to do fae and stop sealing it. I can manage that over the next 7 days by watching the condensation on the jar.
And I think if I understand what you said, I should not mist for now... I should do the opposite in a way, while retaining hi rh...
ThanksQuote:
Kagenical said: Knots form at the onset of pinning. You want fae, high rh, evaporation and light. Now. Knotting is not a colonization thing. It is a fruiting thing. You're harming yourself right now. Fruit it.
Thanks, so I'll stop waiting for them and instead pay attention to my fae for the next 7 days and see what happens, this is picture 2 and 7 days to go before expected knots and/or pins 
!! For luck !!
thanks for your help
Jpack
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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