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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment?
#19100290 - 11/07/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just got back from my doctor, I will be getting both the new drugs Semepriver and Sofosbuvir for the treatment of HCV. Now, they are not FDA approved to be used together, but using them together is the Holy Grail of HCV treatments so I will be in a study for both of them. SO far studies with the combo has been ruuning 95~100% cure rates in HCV treatments, while either alone runs 50 to 80% for all forms and stages of HCV.
The insurance company will only pay for one of the two. The cost? $85,000 per drug for the twelve week treatment. So I will get one for free and my insurance will pay for one in the study.
Before you answer 'is it fair' be aware that Gilead Pharmaceutical shelled out 11 Billion of their own money for Sofosbuvir before they even got to FDA.
Two other issues: Insurance won't pay for the most effective treatment if not FDA Apprved. Also, the FDA takes forever to approve these drugs when there are people dropping like flies who need the drugs right now.
Discuss.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19100554 - 11/07/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Yes, the drugs are really expensive when they first come out. Why? Because they have to recover their research costs.
Quote:
starfire_xes said: Before you talk about pharmaceutical companies ''make higher profits' and 'charging more' I want to ask you if you know how much money Gilead Pharmaceuticals Spent--UP FRONT, before they make even a dime, or get FDA approval, for the new hepititis C drug Sofosbuvir? (It works well too)
Once you find that information out come back and tell me if it is fair or not whether they are going to charge a lot of money for it. Remember, a pharmaceutical company can spend Billions up front front to develop a new drug, only to have years and money wasted because the Government decides the drug isn't safe. That's a HUGE risk they take, so, what is fair? 
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Neller
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19103432 - 11/07/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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First off, I wish you well with your treatment. It doesn't sound like that bad of a deal and at least you have an option.
As for the pharm:
"Before you answer 'is it fair' be aware that Gilead Pharmaceutical shelled out 11 Billion of their own money for Sofosbuvir before they even got to FDA." -starfire_xes
They shelled that money out because they are good investors. They knew they had something that people would die for, go into debt for, rob a bank for, etc. They attained that 11 bill the same way they are going to attain the next 11+ bill. Feeding off of sick peoples' desperation. Look what accutane was able to get people to swallow just to have clear skin.
Pharm companies are shady business.
My sister-in-law was doing some kind of research with a certain medication and she sent the information back to the company. She said a few weeks later they sent her a letter stating that they expected results xyz and she reported only y. She went back through her work and there was no mistake. So she wrote back to them explaining that there was no mistake.
Apparently they did this a couple more times and she finally went to her boss and said, "I've done everything correctly and they keep sending me these letters". Her boss then closed the door behind her and explained that they were trying to get the data they need to get their product on the market.
-------------------- "If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement." -BRETT Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19116301 - 11/10/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Yes, the drugs are really expensive when they first come out. Why? Because they have to recover their research costs.
Quote:
starfire_xes said: Before you talk about pharmaceutical companies ''make higher profits' and 'charging more' I want to ask you if you know how much money Gilead Pharmaceuticals Spent--UP FRONT, before they make even a dime, or get FDA approval, for the new hepititis C drug Sofosbuvir? (It works well too)
Once you find that information out come back and tell me if it is fair or not whether they are going to charge a lot of money for it. Remember, a pharmaceutical company can spend Billions up front front to develop a new drug, only to have years and money wasted because the Government decides the drug isn't safe. That's a HUGE risk they take, so, what is fair? 
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Synthe]
#19116329 - 11/10/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fair to who?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116537 - 11/10/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What's fair?
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19116566 - 11/10/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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fair fe(ə)r/ adjective
1. in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
adverb
1. without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116596 - 11/10/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So it means nothing in this context?
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19116627 - 11/10/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It depends on what your view of what "unjust advantage," "legitimate," and "standards" mean.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116669 - 11/10/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Drug companies are improving and saving lives. They should make a healthy profit doing it.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116706 - 11/10/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: It depends on what your view of what "unjust advantage," "legitimate," and "standards" mean.
Well......................
Here, read this little story by Vonnegut
http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19116731 - 11/10/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Mush4Brains said: It depends on what your view of what "unjust advantage," "legitimate," and "standards" mean.
Well......................
Here, read this little story by Vonnegut
http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
No.
Quote:
Enlil said: Drug companies are improving and saving lives. They should make a healthy profit doing it.
What is the difference between healthy and exorbitant?
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116743 - 11/10/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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They should get what they can.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19116758 - 11/10/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Then companies in India should be able to rip off the formula and sell it to me for cheaper. I should be able to get what I can too.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116773 - 11/10/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said What is the difference between healthy and exorbitant?
That line is determined by supply and demand.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19116788 - 11/10/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: Then companies in India should be able to rip off the formula and sell it to me for cheaper. I should be able to get what I can too.
No, you should pay what the developer is charging or do without. What makes you think they owe anyone anything?
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19117146 - 11/10/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So corporations should be able to make however much money they can make from something, but I shouldn't be able to save however much money I can on something?
Wow.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19117168 - 11/10/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not by cheating them out of their patent rights.
According to your logic, you should be able to have a Corvette if you can steal one...After all, think of the money you'd save.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19117192 - 11/10/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Comparing life saving drug treatments to a Corvette?
If I wanted to buy a knock off Corvette from China I don't see why that's a problem.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19117194 - 11/10/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Mush4Brains said: Then companies in India should be able to rip off the formula and sell it to me for cheaper. I should be able to get what I can too.
No, you should pay what the developer is charging or do without. What makes you think they owe anyone anything?
But they are using the government to enforce their monopoly rights on the chemical, so there is some argument that the public is owed something in return. The taxes provide money, of course, but no more than other companies that don't get monopoly rights.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: johnm214]
#19117208 - 11/10/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: If I wanted to buy a knock off Corvette from China I don't see why that's a problem.
Of course you don't. People who understand the concept of intellectual property do, however.
Quote:
johnm214 said: But they are using the government to enforce their monopoly rights on the chemical, so there is some argument that the public is owed something in return. The taxes provide money, of course, but no more than other companies that don't get monopoly rights.
The public gets something out of it. The drug is developed at no cost to the taxpayers, and the patent only lasts for a limited time. After that, anyone can manufacture the drug and offer it cheaply.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19117232 - 11/10/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Of course you don't. People who understand the concept of intellectual property do, however.
Why would another country feel the need to abide by intellectual property rights from a foreign nation and let their citizens suffer?
If someone out there is going to make an $85,000 drug and sell it for $850, what is the moral argument for someone who can't afford the $85,000 not to do whatever they can to secure their health?
If I'm either going to die, or use a product that has already knocked off in a foreign country, the original company was never going to get my money anyways. Who is actually being hurt?
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19117258 - 11/10/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The company that spent billions to develop the drug. By purchasing from the other company, you're creating demand for their product which encourages them to violate the patent rights of the developing company.
And other countries have signed treaties agreeing to honor our patents in exchange for our agreement to honor theirs.
As far as your moral question, that's an issue of balancing. If it's life and death for you, then cheating the company out of some money probably is the better choice from a utilitarian perspective. If, however, you're cheating the company out of some money to shorten the duration of a cold by a day, that might require a different analysis.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19117297 - 11/10/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I really don't think people are buying knock off Dayquil .
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19119073 - 11/11/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of course they are. Go to any CVS, Walgreens, etc. and you'll find generic Dayquil, Nyquil, and hundreds of other generics.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19120273 - 11/11/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You have officially changed the argument from illegal, life-saving knockoff drugs from another country, to legal generic cold medication.
Congrats, I hope you feel real fucking good about yourself.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19120284 - 11/11/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No...you did...You're the one that brought up Dayquil. The patent for DXM has long-since expired.
If you need to rip off a person or a company in order to survive...or to save someone else's life, I think it's the moral thing to do. The vast majority of these situations, however, are not life and death.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19120291 - 11/11/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was still implying illegal knockoffs from another country, you know, the same situation that we were discussion. However you felt the need to change the argument to better suit your own point.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19120309 - 11/11/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are no illegal knockoffs of Dayquil, dude...it isn't protected by patent anymore. When you brought up Dayquil, YOU were the one changing the topic.
The topic of this thread is new treatments...ie...ones covered by a patent. Not necessarily life saving treatments...just new treatments.
As I have said before, patent protection is what gives these companies an opportunity to break even and eventually profit from developing new treatments. Supporting a company that rips off that patent is cheating the company that worked so hard and invested so much money in creating the treatment that you want.
Of course, that doesn't make it always the wrong thing to do. All morals are relative to each other, and while cheating the company is certainly immoral, it might be excusable if it is done to serve a higher value.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19120346 - 11/11/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You brought up shortening duration of a cold by a day, and there really isn't anything prescribed that does that. You changed the argument to suit your own purposes.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19120384 - 11/11/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My doctorate is not in medicine, so I've no idea if there is a new treatment that reduces the duration of a cold by a day, but I'm certain that Dayquil doesn't do that.
I did find this, though:
http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/19991215/new-cold-drugs-may-reduce-symptoms-duration
The point of my post, however, was to illustrate that it isn't as black and white of an issue as you're making it. Patent protection exists for all kinds of drugs...not just life-saving ones. Even heartburn medications are patented.
Your statement was "Then companies in India should be able to rip off the formula and sell it to me for cheaper. I should be able to get what I can too. "
In the context of a heartburn medication, your statement simply doesn't stand up to moral scrutiny....unless you think it's okay to rip someone off so that you can have your choice of heartburn medications for a lower price.
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sweeper54



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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19120542 - 11/11/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't have a problem with a 'FAIR' price and by fair I mean what they a charging other countries. But if we're paying 4x what Canada is, THAT'S UNFAIR.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
#19120568 - 11/11/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why is that unfair? If they can get 4x the amount here, why shouldn't they? If they can only make a few cents profit in another country, and feel that it will still be a net benefit to the company, why shouldn't they do that?
If people refused to pay the higher price here, they would lower the price. They're not trying to prove a point...they're trying to maximize profits...which is their legal duty.
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sweeper54



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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19120611 - 11/11/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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People who NEED drugs don't have the option to REFUSE.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
#19120657 - 11/11/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of course they do. By definition, a new treatment is new...meaning that 50 years ago it didn't exist. People lived and died without these drugs before, and they can do it today.
More importantly, however, is that if the truly feel they "need" these drugs, they'll do everything they can to get the money for them. In the U.S., people have more options for getting larger sums of money than someone would in Somalia, for instance. As a result, the companies can charge more money here than they could in Somalia.
Why shouldn't they get as much as they can?
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sweeper54



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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19120816 - 11/11/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ya including losing their homes because the health insurance is FUCKED.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
#19120836 - 11/11/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's the price you sometimes have to pay when you get sick. They're lucky they had a home to lose instead of losing their lives because they've nothing to mortgage to get the drugs.
If you created something and could sell an unlimited amount of them, wouldn't you give the poor a break and charge them less than the rich? Americans are the rich in this world. Even our poor here are rich compared to people who live in many countries.
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sweeper54



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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19121190 - 11/11/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you honestly believe this horses shit you are truly a screwed up individual.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
#19121232 - 11/11/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So you don't believe we are a rich country? You must be incredibly misinformed, dude.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19121380 - 11/11/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sweeper wants what sweeper wants. What sweeper and mush4 don't seem to understand is that if there are no patent rights there will be no drugs.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19121933 - 11/11/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Why is that unfair? If they can get 4x the amount here, why shouldn't they? If they can only make a few cents profit in another country, and feel that it will still be a net benefit to the company, why shouldn't they do that?
If people refused to pay the higher price here, they would lower the price. They're not trying to prove a point...they're trying to maximize profits...which is their legal duty.
ONCE AGAIN, if a corporation can get as much as they can for a drug, why can't I find the drug for as cheap as I can?
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nooneman


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19121998 - 11/11/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.
Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.
However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122146 - 11/11/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Why is that unfair? If they can get 4x the amount here, why shouldn't they? If they can only make a few cents profit in another country, and feel that it will still be a net benefit to the company, why shouldn't they do that?
If people refused to pay the higher price here, they would lower the price. They're not trying to prove a point...they're trying to maximize profits...which is their legal duty.
ONCE AGAIN, if a corporation can get as much as they can for a drug, why can't I find the drug for as cheap as I can?
Within the law, fine. The law has patent protections. Do you think you should be allowed to steal it from a pharmacy? That would be even cheaper.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: nooneman]
#19122161 - 11/11/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.
Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.
However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.
I agree with this. I believe there have been instances of original patent holders paying generic drug companies not to produce or to raise the price. This illegal monopolization. They get the patent for the term they get the patent. After that it is collusion.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19122216 - 11/11/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Within the law, fine. The law has patent protections. Do you think you should be allowed to steal it from a pharmacy? That would be even cheaper.
Why should a sovereign nation be required to follow our patent protections? If another country is producing the same drugs for less, why is it such an issue if I go there for the treatment?
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
nooneman said: It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.
Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.
However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.
I agree with this. I believe there have been instances of original patent holders paying generic drug companies not to produce or to raise the price. This illegal monopolization. They get the patent for the term they get the patent. After that it is collusion.
If you think the Pharma industry is "free market capitalism" I'm not sure you understand what the term actually means.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122300 - 11/11/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Within the law, fine. The law has patent protections. Do you think you should be allowed to steal it from a pharmacy? That would be even cheaper.
Why should a sovereign nation be required to follow our patent protections? If another country is producing the same drugs for less, why is it such an issue if I go there for the treatment?
Because they signed treaties to do so and if they don't we will fuck them in the ass.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
nooneman said: It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.
Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.
However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.
I agree with this. I believe there have been instances of original patent holders paying generic drug companies not to produce or to raise the price. This illegal monopolization. They get the patent for the term they get the patent. After that it is collusion.
If you think the Pharma industry is "free market capitalism" I'm not sure you understand what the term actually means.
You're right that it isn't but not for the reasons that you think. It is regulated to the balls by government.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122398 - 11/11/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
You're right that it isn't but not for the reasons that you think.
I'm sure you know what I think.
If you're a proponent of free markets, then the fact that you are a fan of government imposed patent protections is laughable.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122441 - 11/11/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
Quote:
You're right that it isn't but not for the reasons that you think.
I'm sure you know what I think.
If you're a proponent of free markets, then the fact that you are a fan of government imposed patent protections is laughable.
That is rather ridiculous. Is your idea of free market capitalism anarchy?
Will you please explain to me why any company would expand years and years and millions upon millions of dollars to create a drug only to find that some jackass reverse engineered it and didn't incur any development costs but can sell it?
No patents. No drugs.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122505 - 11/11/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No patents. No drugs.
We'll never know, will we?
Quote:
Is your idea of free market capitalism anarchy?
The free market should weed out the people who steal, shouldn't it? Purchasers will pick honest corporations over thieves, no?
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122536 - 11/11/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
Quote:
No patents. No drugs.
We'll never know, will we?
Oh I think we do know. You, on the other hand................... cannot answer my simple question.Quote:
Quote:
Is your idea of free market capitalism anarchy?
The free market should weed out the people who steal, shouldn't it? Purchasers will pick honest corporations over thieves, no?
You do realize that you would be an early cull, right?
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Mush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122614 - 11/11/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why does anybody do anything for others without asking for payment?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19122660 - 11/11/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: Why does anybody do anything for others without asking for payment?
That will work as a life philosophy, Siddhartha. I note you insist on being paid, meager as it is.
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Enlil
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
#19123068 - 11/11/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: The free market should weed out the people who steal, shouldn't it? Purchasers will pick honest corporations over thieves, no?
Consumers will choose the cheapest way to get the item they want without regard to the legality of the source.
There is no free market without property rights and the enforcement thereof. Without such rights and enforcement, people will take whatever they can get by force. A free market cannot exist.
Patent rights are an important part of property rights.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Kiya_Star427
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
#19125164 - 11/12/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.
If people were allowed to start using cannabis for there cancer treatments (one of the most expensive and on going treatments and most common in America due to the chemicals purposely placed in our food and water), the prices of cancer treatment would go down drastically and that is the beauty of free market system vs a government run healthcare system, where your only allowed to buy the drugs they push on TV and in there drug spots.
Edited by Kiya_Star427 (11/12/13 06:32 AM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19126829 - 11/12/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.
There will be no drugsQuote:
If people were allowed to start using cannabis for there cancer treatments (one of the most expensive and on going treatments and most common in America due to the chemicals purposely placed in our food and water), the prices of cancer treatment would go down drastically and that is the beauty of free market system vs a government run healthcare system, where your only allowed to buy the drugs they push on TV and in there drug spots.
What kind of nonsense is this?
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pretzelking
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19128568 - 11/12/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The prices for some drugs I wouldn't consider fair per say. Reality is however that it costs billions of dollars to research and develop these drugs, sometimes a drug may never even come to the market because it was deemed unsafe after clinical trials. They are going to want a return on this initial investment of billions that may or may not work. So they need to charge high amounts on certain drugs to cover the cost of research, development, testing, production AND make a profit BEFORE their patent runs out.
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starfire_xes
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Kiya_Star427]
#19129109 - 11/12/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.
If there is no competition, why are 8 or 10 of the biggest drug companies investing billions in research trying to be the first to get on the market with a cure for (Put a hideous untreatable disease here)??
There is a lot of competition and what drives it? Profit motive.
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Simplicitry
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: starfire_xes]
#19130899 - 11/13/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This post is not directed to anyone in particular. I'm just throwing this out there. Not even sure it's a good idea, but would lengthing patents of pharmaceuticals lower initial cost of new drugs by allowing the company to recover investment cost over a longer period? Just a passing thought
--------------------
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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pretzelking
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Simplicitry]
#19131195 - 11/13/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is an interesting idea. I'm not an economist but I think demand would also have a large factor, and that can't really be controlled by laws. Also whats not to say a company decides to try to make that extra billion or two while they can. So who knows maybe.
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kneesocks
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: pretzelking]
#19131224 - 11/13/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How did you get HCV in the first place?
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Kiya_Star427 said: No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.
There will be no drugsQuote:
If people were allowed to start using cannabis for there cancer treatments (one of the most expensive and on going treatments and most common in America due to the chemicals purposely placed in our food and water), the prices of cancer treatment would go down drastically and that is the beauty of free market system vs a government run healthcare system, where your only allowed to buy the drugs they push on TV and in there drug spots.
What kind of nonsense is this?
Sounds like someone's been on too many conspiracy theorist blogs.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
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Mr. Bojangles
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Simplicitry]
#19133245 - 11/13/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Simplicitry said: This post is not directed to anyone in particular. I'm just throwing this out there. Not even sure it's a good idea, but would lengthing patents of pharmaceuticals lower initial cost of new drugs by allowing the company to recover investment cost over a longer period? Just a passing thought
Unfortunately no. Part of the inherent risk in this business is failure...actually failure is what happens 100x more often than success, its just the public doesn't see it. Failures cost money, lots of money as some have noted, and we don't really know where these failures are going to take place or if our next 5 clinical trials are all going to fail in phase 3. Its all uncertainty, and having money to cover failures is always nice. Also the more money a company has, the more it can throw to R&D and potentially get a new blockbuster. Pharma will get every dollar it can out of those extra years.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." Francois-Marie Arouet
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