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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19121933 - 11/11/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why is that unfair?  If they can get 4x the amount here, why shouldn't they?  If they can only make a few cents profit in another country, and feel that it will still be a net benefit to the company, why shouldn't they do that?

If people refused to pay the higher price here, they would lower the price.  They're not trying to prove a point...they're trying to maximize profits...which is their legal duty.





ONCE AGAIN, if a corporation can get as much as they can for a drug, why can't I find the drug for as cheap as I can?


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19121998 - 11/11/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.

Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.

However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122146 - 11/11/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Why is that unfair?  If they can get 4x the amount here, why shouldn't they?  If they can only make a few cents profit in another country, and feel that it will still be a net benefit to the company, why shouldn't they do that?

If people refused to pay the higher price here, they would lower the price.  They're not trying to prove a point...they're trying to maximize profits...which is their legal duty.





ONCE AGAIN, if a corporation can get as much as they can for a drug, why can't I find the drug for as cheap as I can?



Within the law, fine.  The law has patent protections.  Do you think you should be allowed to steal it from a pharmacy?  That would be even cheaper.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: nooneman]
    #19122161 - 11/11/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.

Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.

However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.



I agree with this.  I believe there have been instances of original patent holders paying generic drug companies not to produce or to raise the price.  This illegal monopolization.  They get the patent for the term they get the patent.  After that it is collusion.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19122216 - 11/11/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Within the law, fine.  The law has patent protections.  Do you think you should be allowed to steal it from a pharmacy?  That would be even cheaper.




Why should a sovereign nation be required to follow our patent protections?  If another country is producing the same drugs for less, why is it such an issue if I go there for the treatment?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.

Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.

However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.



I agree with this.  I believe there have been instances of original patent holders paying generic drug companies not to produce or to raise the price.  This illegal monopolization.  They get the patent for the term they get the patent.  After that it is collusion.




If you think the Pharma industry is "free market capitalism" I'm not sure you understand what the term actually means.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122300 - 11/11/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Within the law, fine.  The law has patent protections.  Do you think you should be allowed to steal it from a pharmacy?  That would be even cheaper.




Why should a sovereign nation be required to follow our patent protections?  If another country is producing the same drugs for less, why is it such an issue if I go there for the treatment?




Because they signed treaties to do so and if they don't we will fuck them in the ass.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
It's free market capitalism, and I believe it's perfectly fair and natural and a good thing. If there wasn't such a huge financial incentive, we'd have only a tiny fraction of the drugs we have now. A lot of drugs are developed for fairly tiny markets.

Companies have to recover their costs and make enough profit to stay in business and fund new research. Something like 90% of the drugs that companies invest time and money into never make it to the market. The remaining 10% have to cover the cost of developing the other 90%.

However, other companies producing generic versions of drugs is also free market capitalism, and is also perfectly fair, natural, and a good thing. Companies trying to prevent generic versions of their drugs from being produced after their patents have expired is absolutely wrong, and anticapitalist. Competition is a core component of capitalism.



I agree with this.  I believe there have been instances of original patent holders paying generic drug companies not to produce or to raise the price.  This illegal monopolization.  They get the patent for the term they get the patent.  After that it is collusion.




If you think the Pharma industry is "free market capitalism" I'm not sure you understand what the term actually means.




You're right that it isn't but not for the reasons that you think.  It is regulated to the balls by government.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122398 - 11/11/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You're right that it isn't but not for the reasons that you think.




I'm sure you know what I think.

If you're a proponent of free markets, then the fact that you are a fan of government imposed patent protections is laughable.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122441 - 11/11/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

You're right that it isn't but not for the reasons that you think.




I'm sure you know what I think.

If you're a proponent of free markets, then the fact that you are a fan of government imposed patent protections is laughable.



That is rather ridiculous.  Is your idea of free market capitalism anarchy?

Will you please explain to me why any company would expand years and years and millions upon millions of dollars to create a drug only to find that some jackass reverse engineered it and didn't incur any development costs but can sell it?:picard:

No patents.  No drugs.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122505 - 11/11/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

No patents.  No drugs.




We'll never know, will we?

Quote:

Is your idea of free market capitalism anarchy?




The free market should weed out the people who steal, shouldn't it?  Purchasers will pick honest corporations over thieves, no?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122536 - 11/11/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

No patents.  No drugs.




We'll never know, will we?




Oh I think we do know.  You, on the other hand................... cannot answer my simple question.
Quote:



Quote:

Is your idea of free market capitalism anarchy?




The free market should weed out the people who steal, shouldn't it?  Purchasers will pick honest corporations over thieves, no?




You do realize that you would be an early cull, right?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122614 - 11/11/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why does anybody do anything for others without asking for payment?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19122660 - 11/11/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Why does anybody do anything for others without asking for payment?



That will work as a life philosophy, Siddhartha.  I note you insist on being paid, meager as it is.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19123068 - 11/11/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
The free market should weed out the people who steal, shouldn't it?  Purchasers will pick honest corporations over thieves, no?



Consumers will choose the cheapest way to get the item they want without regard to the legality of the source.

There is no free market without property rights and the enforcement thereof.  Without such rights and enforcement, people will take whatever they can get by force.  A free market cannot exist.

Patent rights are an important part of property rights.


--------------------
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Ask an Attorney

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OfflineKiya_Star427
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19125164 - 11/12/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.

If people were allowed to start using cannabis for there cancer treatments (one of the most expensive and on going treatments and most common in America due to the chemicals purposely placed in our food and water), the prices of cancer treatment would go down drastically and that is the beauty of free market system vs a government run healthcare system, where your only allowed to buy the drugs they push on TV and in there drug spots.


--------------------


Edited by Kiya_Star427 (11/12/13 06:32 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Kiya_Star427]
    #19126829 - 11/12/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kiya_Star427 said:
No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.


There will be no drugs
Quote:



If people were allowed to start using cannabis for there cancer treatments (one of the most expensive and on going treatments and most common in America due to the chemicals purposely placed in our food and water), the prices of cancer treatment would go down drastically and that is the beauty of free market system vs a government run healthcare system, where your only allowed to buy the drugs they push on TV and in there drug spots.




What kind of nonsense is this?


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19128568 - 11/12/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The prices for some drugs I wouldn't consider fair per say. Reality is however that it costs billions of dollars to research and develop these drugs, sometimes a drug may never even come to the market because it was deemed unsafe after clinical trials. They are going to want a return on this initial investment of billions that may or may not work. So they need to charge high amounts on certain drugs to cover the cost of research, development, testing, production AND make a profit BEFORE their patent runs out.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Kiya_Star427]
    #19129109 - 11/12/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kiya_Star427 said:
No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.







If there is no competition, why are 8 or 10 of the biggest drug companies investing billions in research trying to be the first to get on the market with a cure for (Put a hideous untreatable disease here)??

There is a lot of competition and what drives it?  Profit motive.  :smirk:


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19130899 - 11/13/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This post is not directed to anyone in particular. I'm just throwing this out there. Not even sure it's a good idea, but would lengthing patents of pharmaceuticals lower initial cost of new drugs by allowing the company to recover investment cost over a longer period? Just a passing thought


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19131195 - 11/13/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That is an interesting idea. I'm not an economist but I think demand would also have a large factor, and that can't really be controlled by laws. Also whats not to say a company decides to try to make that extra billion or two while they can. So who knows maybe.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: pretzelking]
    #19131224 - 11/13/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How did you get HCV in the first place?

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Kiya_Star427 said:
No it's not fair what drug company's charge, there should be more free reign and more competition instead of this the medical industrial complex.


There will be no drugs
Quote:



If people were allowed to start using cannabis for there cancer treatments (one of the most expensive and on going treatments and most common in America due to the chemicals purposely placed in our food and water), the prices of cancer treatment would go down drastically and that is the beauty of free market system vs a government run healthcare system, where your only allowed to buy the drugs they push on TV and in there drug spots.




What kind of nonsense is this?



Sounds like someone's been on too many conspiracy theorist blogs.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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