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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: johnm214]
    #19117208 - 11/10/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
If I wanted to buy a knock off Corvette from China I don't see why that's a problem.



Of course you don't.  People who understand the concept of intellectual property do, however.

Quote:

johnm214 said:
But they are using the government to enforce their monopoly rights on the chemical, so there is some argument that the public is owed something in return.  The taxes provide money, of course, but no more than other companies that don't get monopoly rights.



The public gets something out of it.  The drug is developed at no cost to the taxpayers, and the patent only lasts for a limited time.  After that, anyone can manufacture the drug and offer it cheaply.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19117232 - 11/10/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Of course you don't.  People who understand the concept of intellectual property do, however.




Why would another country feel the need to abide by intellectual property rights from a foreign nation and let their citizens suffer?

If someone out there is going to make an $85,000 drug and sell it for $850, what is the moral argument for someone who can't afford the $85,000 not to do whatever they can to secure their health?

If I'm either going to die, or use a product that has already knocked off in a foreign country, the original company was never going to get my money anyways.  Who is actually being hurt?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19117258 - 11/10/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The company that spent billions to develop the drug.  By purchasing from the other company, you're creating demand for their product which encourages them to violate the patent rights of the developing company.

And other countries have signed treaties agreeing to honor our patents in exchange for our agreement to honor theirs.

As far as your moral question, that's an issue of balancing.  If it's life and death for you, then cheating the company out of some money probably is the better choice from a utilitarian perspective.  If, however, you're cheating the company out of some money to shorten the duration of a cold by a day, that might require a different analysis.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19117297 - 11/10/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I really don't think people are buying knock off Dayquil :shrug:.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19119073 - 11/11/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Of course they are.  Go to any CVS, Walgreens, etc. and you'll find generic Dayquil, Nyquil, and hundreds of other generics.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19120273 - 11/11/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:rolleyes:

You have officially changed the argument from illegal, life-saving knockoff drugs from another country, to legal generic cold medication.

Congrats, I hope you feel real fucking good about yourself.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19120284 - 11/11/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No...you did...You're the one that brought up Dayquil.  The patent for DXM has long-since expired.

If you need to rip off a person or a company in order to survive...or to save someone else's life, I think it's the moral thing to do.  The vast majority of these situations, however, are not life and death.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19120291 - 11/11/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was still implying illegal knockoffs from another country, you know, the same situation that we were discussion.  However you felt the need to change the argument to better suit your own point.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19120309 - 11/11/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There are no illegal knockoffs of Dayquil, dude...it isn't protected by patent anymore.  When you brought up Dayquil, YOU were the one changing the topic. 

The topic of this thread is new treatments...ie...ones covered by a patent.  Not necessarily life saving treatments...just new treatments.

As I have said before, patent protection is what gives these companies an opportunity to break even and eventually profit from developing new treatments.  Supporting a company that rips off that patent is cheating the company that worked so hard and invested so much money in creating the treatment that you want. 

Of course, that doesn't make it always the wrong thing to do.  All morals are relative to each other, and while cheating the company is certainly immoral, it might be excusable if it is done to serve a higher value.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19120346 - 11/11/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You brought up shortening duration of a cold by a day, and there really isn't anything prescribed that does that.  You changed the argument to suit your own purposes.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19120384 - 11/11/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My doctorate is not in medicine, so I've no idea if there is a new treatment that reduces the duration of a cold by a day, but I'm certain that Dayquil doesn't do that.

I did find this, though:

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/19991215/new-cold-drugs-may-reduce-symptoms-duration

The point of my post, however, was to illustrate that it isn't as black and white of an issue as you're making it.  Patent protection exists for all kinds of drugs...not just life-saving ones.  Even heartburn medications are patented. 

Your statement was "Then companies in India should be able to rip off the formula and sell it to me for cheaper.  I should be able to get what I can too. "

In the context of a heartburn medication, your statement simply doesn't stand up to moral scrutiny....unless you think it's okay to rip someone off so that you can have your choice of heartburn medications for a lower price.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19120542 - 11/11/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't have a problem with a 'FAIR' price and by fair I mean what they a charging other countries. But if we're paying 4x what Canada is, THAT'S UNFAIR.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19120568 - 11/11/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why is that unfair?  If they can get 4x the amount here, why shouldn't they?  If they can only make a few cents profit in another country, and feel that it will still be a net benefit to the company, why shouldn't they do that?

If people refused to pay the higher price here, they would lower the price.  They're not trying to prove a point...they're trying to maximize profits...which is their legal duty.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19120611 - 11/11/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People who NEED drugs don't have the option to REFUSE.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19120657 - 11/11/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Of course they do.  By definition, a new treatment is new...meaning that 50 years ago it didn't exist.  People lived and died without these drugs before, and they can do it today.

More importantly, however, is that if the truly feel they "need" these drugs, they'll do everything they can to get the money for them.  In the U.S., people have more options for getting larger sums of money than someone would in Somalia, for instance.  As a result, the companies can charge more money here than they could in Somalia.

Why shouldn't they get as much as they can?


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19120816 - 11/11/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ya including losing their homes because the health insurance is FUCKED.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19120836 - 11/11/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's the price you sometimes have to pay when you get sick.  They're lucky they had a home to lose instead of losing their lives because they've nothing to mortgage to get the drugs.

If you created something and could sell an unlimited amount of them, wouldn't you give the poor a break and charge them less than the rich?  Americans are the rich in this world.  Even our poor here are rich compared to people who live in many countries.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19121190 - 11/11/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you honestly believe this horses shit you are truly a screwed up individual.


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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19121232 - 11/11/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So you don't believe we are a rich country?  You must be incredibly misinformed, dude.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Is It Fair What A Drug Company Charges For A New Treatment? [Re: Enlil]
    #19121380 - 11/11/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sweeper wants what sweeper wants.  What sweeper and mush4 don't seem to understand is that if there are no patent rights there will be no drugs.


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