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InvisiblePoor Boy
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downloading and burning movies
    #19099431 - 11/07/13 08:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

so i work with a few IBM guys on the 8th floor. all are pretty cool and i really dont have any issues with any of them. there is this one guy who tends to give me shit though about downloading and burning movies. hes always making comments about me getting caught and going to jail and how its illegal and blah blah blah.

i know pirating movies is illegal and some do frown upon it, but i just dont see these big corps coming after me. i do not mass produce and i do not download like a crazy ass hole. every week new dvds are dropped which i then sort through and see if any are worth downloading. if they are, i do, then at times i put them on one disc which i leave at the house.

i know im not completely protected and unseen, but i do use private browsing in waterfox and i use peerblock when downloading.

honestly, how likely is it that some corp. will come after me and charge me to the max?


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy] * 4
    #19099436 - 11/07/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm just laughing at you because you're still burning DVDs.  What is this, 2005?


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy] * 1
    #19099441 - 11/07/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing and have remained free of incarceration (for that specific crime, anyway).
At the same time, there's always some percent of risk involved in every illegal activity. Regardless of how harmless or poorly-enforced it may be.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19099447 - 11/07/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

umm... i said at times... 85% of my shit is on my pc at the house. if i feel like watching a movie at work, i throw it on a disc. i also randomly watch shit on my xbox. its not like i said i record them on a vhs.

:facepalm:


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19099451 - 11/07/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing and have remained free of incarceration (for that specific crime, anyway).
At the same time, there's always some percent of risk involved in every illegal activity. Regardless of how harmless or poorly-enforced it may be.




my point exactly and i do know the risk. i just cant tell if hes just fucking off or if he truly believes ill end up in jail.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy] * 3
    #19099456 - 11/07/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He's most likely fucking off. I run into one of these retards every now and then, the super holier-than-thou-you-must-abide-all-laws-always types.
Tell him to get fucked in the ass, the stupid lil' bitch.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19099469 - 11/07/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hes an alright guy, but he does put off that vibe. he holds himself a little bit higher than everyone else.

this is how the convo went... (right before i made this thread)

IBM GUY: any movies today?

ME: yeah, i have a few i wanna check out if i find the time.

IBM GUY: do you smoke?

ME: no, why?

IBM GUY: oh, i was gonna say, if you did, how did you plan on getting cigarets in jail...

ME: ...


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OfflineDeeBee
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy] * 1
    #19099474 - 11/07/13 09:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why download when you can stream..?

Btw, my bad about zombies.  I've had a long and interesting weekend.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy] * 1
    #19099476 - 11/07/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yup, that's when I'd not be talking to him anymore.
What a fucking sanctimonious asswipe.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: DeeBee]
    #19099478 - 11/07/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

zombies?

its easier for me to download...


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19099481 - 11/07/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
He's most likely fucking off. I run into one of these retards every now and then, the super holier-than-thou-you-must-abide-all-laws-always types.
Tell him to get fucked in the ass, the stupid lil' bitch.




QFT


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: DeeBee]
    #19099483 - 11/07/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DeeBee said:
Why download when you can stream..?

Btw, my bad about zombies.  I've had a long and interesting weekend.



1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality
2) Netflix is very likely blocked at work
3) Netflix has kinda crappy selection.


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OfflineHellogoodbyedeath

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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19099487 - 11/07/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:confused2: Your IBM buddy seems like a doodoo head.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19099488 - 11/07/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Yup, that's when I'd not be talking to him anymore.
What a fucking sanctimonious asswipe.




i have to get along with them all. theres a total of 5 of us in a 500sq foot room. only thing between us are cubicles.


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OfflineDeeBee
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19099492 - 11/07/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality
2) Netflix is very likely blocked at work
3) Netflix has kinda crappy selection.




:hmm:

1)Try using a better website.  I always have good quality on everything but movies that just came out.

2)Did he say he was watching them at work?

3)QFT


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: DeeBee]
    #19099498 - 11/07/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Netflix isn't even worth the seven bucks.
Pretty much anything worth watching is on their stupid fucking useless DVD-by-mail service, and even then it is still a slim selection of watchable movies.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: DeeBee]
    #19099503 - 11/07/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i do have netflix at the house and use it for bullshit shows or older movies. i do watch movies at work which is why i burn to a disk. i only get 5gigs a month on this air card and streaming would suck that to hell.

yes, i said air card. here, let me save you the time... no its not 2005, i work for a downgraded company.


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OfflineDeeBee
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19099506 - 11/07/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They fucked up when they split their online and dvd services.  Like real bad.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19099508 - 11/07/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Netflix isn't even worth the seven bucks.
Pretty much anything worth watching is on their stupid fucking useless DVD-by-mail service, and even then it is still a slim selection of watchable movies.




i dont pay for netflix, i use my chicks sisters account. :lol:


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InvisibleK1ngSp4de
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19099514 - 11/07/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why don't you put it on a flash drive to take to work?


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If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
                                                - Thomas Jefferson

                    Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19099515 - 11/07/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Meh, I have no siblings and my wife's family live in buttfuck, Canada and buttierfuck west asia.
So I have to pay for all sorts of shit I'd otherwise steal from family members.

:kingcrankey:


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #19099519 - 11/07/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ive thought about it, but i do like to watch some of these movies on my xbox. i havnt figured out how to watch movies from a usb connected to my tv yet.


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InvisibleK1ngSp4de
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19099559 - 11/07/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My computer is my tv, no cable, we actually download movies on my wives phone when she's at work. Then transfer them to the computer. We don't have a tv with usb ports.


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                                    PC Repair and Troubleshooting Forum

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
                                                - Thomas Jefferson

                    Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #19099577 - 11/07/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:sambergfive:


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: DeeBee]
    #19099596 - 11/07/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DeeBee said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality
2) Netflix is very likely blocked at work
3) Netflix has kinda crappy selection.




:hmm:

1)Try using a better website.  I always have good quality on everything but movies that just came out.

2)Did he say he was watching them at work?

3)QFT




1) You can stream 720p - 1080p?  What free websites are you using?  That sounds awesome.

2)
Quote:

Poor Boy said:
85% of my shit is on my pc at the house. if i feel like watching a movie at work, i throw it on a disc.





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InvisibleK1ngSp4de
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19099620 - 11/07/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just saying, I wouldn't be able to help you with the xbox, and usb to tv. Have you tried using a flash drive with the xbox?


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If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
                                                - Thomas Jefferson

                    Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #19099626 - 11/07/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no, i havnt.


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OfflineDeeBee
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19099631 - 11/07/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I use vodly.to 

It's suitable for my needs :yesnod:


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: DeeBee]
    #19099670 - 11/07/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Is it 720p - 1080p?  If not then I consider it terrible quality and my statement stands.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19099684 - 11/07/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Is it 720p - 1080p?  If not then I consider it terrible quality and my statement stands.




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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19099696 - 11/07/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality





IMO, even Netflix has shit for quality.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19099707 - 11/07/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality





IMO, even Netflix has shit for quality.



The new super-HD that they recently released to all users?  It's not Blu-ray quality but it beats any other streaming service I've seen.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19099751 - 11/07/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I don't think they've struck a deal with my service provider to provide "Super-HD" content to me yet.  You're right though, I guess basing my standards on blu-ray is asking too much for streaming. 

I'm just skeptical of the compression used to deliver "Super HD".  I've even read Netflix is attempting to prepare for 4k streaming.  Give me a break.

I find the biggest drawback to streaming is in the sound quality. Doesn't come close to blu-ray formats (DTS-HD etc.)


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19099797 - 11/07/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i saw a movie in 3d on blueray while high on mush and mdma. shit was insane!!!


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19099883 - 11/07/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Yeah, I don't think they've struck a deal with my service provider to provide "Super-HD" content to me yet.  You're right though, I guess basing my standards on blu-ray is asking too much for streaming. 

I'm just skeptical of the compression used to deliver "Super HD".  I've even read Netflix is attempting to prepare for 4k streaming.  Give me a break.

I find the biggest drawback to streaming is in the sound quality. Doesn't come close to blu-ray formats (DTS-HD etc.)



They actually recently released the super-HD to all users on any service provider... if you're using Windows 8.  I haven't seen it, personally, as I use OS X.  I feel you on the sound quality though.  I personally still torrent most stuff in HD for any serious watching.


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19100078 - 11/07/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
hes an alright guy, but he does put off that vibe. he holds himself a little bit higher than everyone else.

this is how the convo went... (right before i made this thread)

IBM GUY: any movies today?

ME: yeah, i have a few i wanna check out if i find the time.

IBM GUY: do you smoke?

ME: no, why?

IBM GUY: oh, i was gonna say, if you did, how did you plan on getting cigarets in jail...

ME: ...







1- He's fucking with you and thinks he's being funny?

2- He's one of those dudes who's never even jaywalked and actually believes what he's saying. Either way, his commentary does kinda strike me as douchey.




Within the last couple years... one day FedEx or whomever shows up at my door asking for a signature. It's just an envelope. And when I open it, I see I'm being named in a class lawsuit, where they're trying to sue a whole bunch of people for downloading stuff. I think it might have just been my IP that was handed over, and they were fighting over actually giving them names... but don't quote me on that...

...anyway, six months or so later I get another FedEx telling me that the suit had been dropped.



That happened once, and there was one other time I got a "love letter" from my ISP telling me that copyright holders were complaining and I should cut the shit.



So that's the worst I've gotten. And I download a lot. With minimal, or no protections. Who knows, maybe I've just been really lucky. Then again, since my first letter, I've gotten into the habit of not "sharing" material when it's something stupidly popular, that is very new. I suspect those are the people they try to go after the most (though not always. One of the ones they bitched at me over was some really crappy bombed-at-the-box-office type movie, that was a couple/few years old.)


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I am me. We are You.


Edited by CidneyIndole (11/07/13 12:18 PM)


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #19100101 - 11/07/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i got a scary letter from the MPAA once, but this was before i discovered peerblock.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: something super extreme]
    #19100111 - 11/07/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing



You're lying.  You don't know anywhere near a billion people.

To the OP: If you're okay with stealing shit that other people have worked to create, then you should get caught.  Unfortunately, you probably won't.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100131 - 11/07/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It might have been slight hyperbole for effect, but you are correct. I think I am acquainted with, at most, a few hundred.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100154 - 11/07/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

sVs said:
Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing



You're lying.  You don't know anywhere near a billion people.

To the OP: If you're okay with stealing shit that other people have worked to create, then you should get caught.  Unfortunately, you probably won't.




:yeahthatsfunny:


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100155 - 11/07/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

sVs said:
Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing



You're lying.  You don't know anywhere near a billion people.

To the OP: If you're okay with stealing shit that other people have worked to create, then you should get caught.  Unfortunately, you probably won't.




I don't understand this

How is some one sharing a file with you stealing?


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19100284 - 11/07/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

They actually recently released the super-HD to all users on any service provider... if you're using Windows 8.  I haven't seen it, personally, as I use OS X.  I feel you on the sound quality though.  I personally still torrent most stuff in HD for any serious watching.




Wow, thanks for that info.  I had no idea as I stream through my blu-ray player.  It's an Oppo (brand), so it has the most advanced image and sound processing hardware on the market now.  Weird that they may not be supporting the "Super HD" gimmick.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19100293 - 11/07/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

sound like you gots yourself some cash.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19100296 - 11/07/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Join a private tracker? :shrug:


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19100307 - 11/07/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
sound like you gots yourself some cash.




meh, we all have hobbies.  Lots of people on these forums spend thousands on camera's and cars.  I just happen to spend it on home theater equipment.  The Oppo is relatively cheap compared to the rest of the gear.


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...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (11/07/13 12:35 PM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19100313 - 11/07/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you should spread some of that love and buy me some kratom. pay it forward...


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19100316 - 11/07/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

DeeBee said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality
2) Netflix is very likely blocked at work
3) Netflix has kinda crappy selection.




:hmm:

1)Try using a better website.  I always have good quality on everything but movies that just came out.

2)Did he say he was watching them at work?

3)QFT




1) You can stream 720p - 1080p?  What free websites are you using?  That sounds awesome.

2)
Quote:

Poor Boy said:
85% of my shit is on my pc at the house. if i feel like watching a movie at work, i throw it on a disc.







You can pirate blu-ray you just need a decent internet connection. :yesnod:


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: ChinChiller]
    #19100347 - 11/07/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Errolscool said:
You can pirate blu-ray you just need a decent internet connection. :yesnod:



You can stream it?  Link?  I know you can torrent HD rips.  That is not streaming.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
    #19100350 - 11/07/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:

They actually recently released the super-HD to all users on any service provider... if you're using Windows 8.  I haven't seen it, personally, as I use OS X.  I feel you on the sound quality though.  I personally still torrent most stuff in HD for any serious watching.




Wow, thanks for that info.  I had no idea as I stream through my blu-ray player.  It's an Oppo (brand), so it has the most advanced image and sound processing hardware on the market now.  Weird that they may not be supporting the "Super HD" gimmick.



They will be rolling out it to all devices eventually, they just haven't gotten there yet.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19100479 - 11/07/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

sVs said:
Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing



You're lying.  You don't know anywhere near a billion people.

To the OP: If you're okay with stealing shit that other people have worked to create, then you should get caught.  Unfortunately, you probably won't.








I don't see it as stealing, per se. There are a million arguments that I'm not sure I have the patience to write out right now. Regardless, you've probably heard many of them and would just see it as excuses or semantics. But to be brief:




1- It is not stealing in the strict, traditional sense. In that sense, someone takes a physical object which does  not belong to them, without permission, and that physical object is no longer there for anyone else to use. This is making a digital copy of a digital copy, which is only "stealing" in the way of a legal definition, IMO (and only loosely so)...and...

2- ...is only morally "wrong" insofar as it translates to lost revenue. And perhaps it does, to a degree, or in some cases. But I've also read arguments and numbers indicating that this kind of thing may not hurt revenue as much as some would claim. And in some cases (and here I am referencing the music industry, specifically) may even help sales.


3- Sharing of media has long been legal, and/or at least highly tolerated in the industry and among the public. People have long made copies of their favorite music and movies for friends to enjoy, or simply let them borrow their physical copy, without reproducing it. How is file sharing much different than lending a friend a DVD or book, or CD? With the exception of the fact that it is often strangers you're sharing with? That person is still enjoying media they did not pay for, which the authors/producers are not generating additional revenue for. If this kind of thing were illegal, or even highly morally objectionable,  LIBRARIES where a single copy of a book, or film, or album is lent to many, many people (without paying) would not exist.



4- People who share files still support these industries. Some much more so than others. Who knows, I'm sure there are some people out there who download just about everything and pay for nothing. Just like there are people who buy everything and download nothing. And then, there is an absolute ton of people in between.


Sure, I have downloaded a bunch of Nine Inch Nails albums, for example. And for brief periods, I probably also shared some of these with other people. But I've been buying, with cash money buying Nine Inch Nails albums since what.... 1992?  Some multiple copies. The worst, I think was The Downward Spiral which I must have bought 3 or 4 copies of, alone. Not to mention videos, and other merchandise like T-shirts. As far as the label, I'm sure I've also bought a lot of other music on Interscope, or whatever label it is he's on now.


Additionally, just by being a fan of his music, and talking about it online and to people IRL, sharing the music, etc, I am generating free advertising and potentially increasing his fan base. This, of course, applies to many artists and forms of media.

Maybe I downloaded a copy of Ridiculous Romantic Comedy Number Ten Billion Starring  Matthew McConaughey and Renee Zellweger, Produced and Distributed by Whoever... but I've also probably bought or legally rented, or went to see a bunch of other movies, starring those people, or directed by, and certainly others produced or distributed by....  etc. In other words, I'm definitely still throwing cash at this industry.

(Hell, I'm pretty sure the ISP I pay to be able to download stuff is a major company, or owned by a major company that owns some other company that owns rights to a bunch of this stuff....)

And the thing is, we are talking about some pretty well paid industries. Many of the jobs.... no, most of the jobs in this industry pay a bit better than is average for other industries. Especially, of course, popular artists, actors, directors, etc. Who are paid insanely, disproportionately well. But even technical people on films are paid pretty well compared to your average wal mart employee. who is illegally downloading some stuff, even while continuing to support the industry in other ways.

I think a lot of people disagree with the disparity of the system. Where some people and their work are highly valued, and others not. And I think this is one of the few ways the common people have to really disagree with that system and "get away with it."  For now, at least.

And again, I'm not saying "stealing" is okay... but I don't think this is stealing. And you'll just have to take my word (or not) when I tell you that I am highly sympathetic to the notion of artists (or anyone, really, but especially artists) to be paid well for their work.  But they are being paid well.  The average income for a performer, or a director, or etc, have certainly not dropped since file sharing has exploded in popularity, have they?

As far as I can see, the only people even potentially being harmed, in any major way are the distribution companies, and maybe people who count on royalties as part of their earnings. But I've already covered how these people are not only paid fairly well, but that their popularity in and of itself is profitable to them, which file sharing actually helps.  And big corps are often, IMHO, the next closest thing to fucking Satan On Earth, and they're not about to go broke any time either, so that part of the equation is the least of my concern. They are the types of people who benefit most from having a crooked system where those with massive wealth and power can constantly benefit to the detriment of those with less... so my apologies if I seem a little less sympathetic on that end.

Point being, as far as I can see the industry is doing just fine, with the existence of file sharing. Maybe some day a more fair version of the market will exist, where people are asked to pay a much more reasonable price, and CEOs and the like are willing to accept a much more reasonable wage, and many more people will both want to, and be able to more frequently support these industries.


Well, that went on way longer than I intended / wanted it to. Sorry for going all socialist hippie or whatever at the end there. It's just not an uncomplicated  issue and touches on a lot of other social issues, IMO.


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Edited by CidneyIndole (11/07/13 01:23 PM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #19100514 - 11/07/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

All of that sounds like rationalization to me.  At its core, however, it's devaluing the work of someone else.  Whether it is the artist that sells the copyright of a song to a big corporation or is trying to sell the song himself online, every copy out there made outside of the copyright reduces the value of that copyright.

The argument that these are big companies and highly paid individuals can be used for anything, really...if cheating the rich is okay, then we need to define who the rich are, and how much cheating is okay.

Finally, either you believe in intellectual property or you don't.  Either you believe that an artist should have the right to decide how many copies of his work are out there, or you don't.  I personally do believe that an artist has that right, and by making illegal copies of his work, you're taking that right from him.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100548 - 11/07/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thats what she said!


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100634 - 11/07/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
All of that sounds like rationalization to me.  At its core, however, it's devaluing the work of someone else.  Whether it is the artist that sells the copyright of a song to a big corporation or is trying to sell the song himself online, every copy out there made outside of the copyright reduces the value of that copyright.

The argument that these are big companies and highly paid individuals can be used for anything, really...if cheating the rich is okay, then we need to define who the rich are, and how much cheating is okay.

Finally, either you believe in intellectual property or you don't.  Either you believe that an artist should have the right to decide how many copies of his work are out there, or you don't.  I personally do believe that an artist has that right, and by making illegal copies of his work, you're taking that right from him.




Number of copies? Seems like a rather meaningless distinction when you're talking about something digitized. So if all it takes to become a thief is devaluing intellectual property, librarians are just as guilty as people sharing files.

I'm no lawyer but form a moral standpoint sharing files seems benign.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100657 - 11/07/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
All of that sounds like rationalization to me.






:lol: yeah, I kinda figured you'd feel that way. One of the reasons I was somewhat reluctant to write all that out.




Quote:

Enlil said:
  At its core, however, it's devaluing the work of someone else.  Whether it is the artist that sells the copyright of a song to a big corporation or is trying to sell the song himself online, every copy out there made outside of the copyright reduces the value of that copyright.






I do kind of see your point here. I get it. And to a small extent I agree with it. In a very limited-view, technical sense. Yes, every copy made is theoretically potentially one less / lost sale. However, when you take into consideration other factors, it seems to become less true, in a greater scope. A copyrighted work is only worth as much (financially) as its own popularity; its own demand. Word of mouth can be more effective than advertising. A book or movie or album that no one wants, is worthless, even if the copyright is 100% respected, and no illegal copies are ever made. Inversely, the more people are interested in and want a particular piece of media, the greater the (potential, monetary) value of that work. Since it could be argued that file sharing increases popularity, giving that material greater exposure, it may help boost the demand for the media, and therefore potential customers. So while additional copies could be argued to detract from the value, the greater popularity could be argued to add to it.



And I would like to hear your view on how things like lending libraries, or just borrowing media from a friend, in a traditional sense, is different or should be acceptable, whereas the other is not....?


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #19100708 - 11/07/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Since it could be argued that file sharing increases popularity, giving that material greater exposure, it may help boost the demand for the media, and therefore potential customers. So while additional copies could be argued to detract from the value, the greater popularity could be argued to add to it.


That's up to the artist, isn't it?  After all, isn't the value of the Mona Lisa largely due to the fact that there is only one?  Some artists may love the idea of mass distribution, while others might not want their work distributed at all.  Isn't that the artists' choice?  Who are you to make that choice for him/her?
Quote:


And I would like to hear your view on how things like lending libraries, or just borrowing media from a friend, in a traditional sense, is different or should be acceptable, whereas the other is not....?



The difference is clear as night and day.  A book of which there are 1000 copies is worth more than the same book would be worth at 10,000 copies.  It doesn't matter whose hands a single copy is in or if it changes hands.  There is still a scarcity of copies.

People (such as the poster above you) seem to think that because something is digital that it is a whole different thing.  It might be from a technical standpoint, but from the point of view of the artist, it's the same heart and soul that goes into the work, and a part of the reason that artists do the work they do is because they know their work is protected by copyright laws.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100865 - 11/07/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So the line here isn't sharing the property.The line is making a copy another person's intellectual property? I don't understand how some one can view data that way. It blows my mind but your argument is logical. The line morally for me is drawn at making a profit off some one else's property.

edit - words


Edited by Juicin (11/07/13 02:24 PM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19100890 - 11/07/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You make a profit because you get something for nothing.  You get unlimited access to someone's work without his/her consent.  That is a profit.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100919 - 11/07/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You make a profit because you get something for nothing.  You get unlimited access to someone's work without his/her consent.  That is a profit.




But by that definition the librarian is guilty, you have to pick


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19100924 - 11/07/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

look guys. i just wanted watch internsip and not be bothered. ya dig?


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19100929 - 11/07/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Juicin said:
But by that definition the librarian is guilty, you have to pick



How do you figure?  The copy that the librarian has access to is either a duly purchased copy or a donated copy, created with permission of the copyright holder.

Can you say the same thing of the digital copies on your computer?


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19100966 - 11/07/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There are certainly some things that I have gotten that I know where not gotten legally. DVD rips of movies with digital watermarks and the like

But you're leaving a massive gap of people who are buying products then sharing them. Which means that a great deal of sharing that I have done is well within the accepted norm.

As to the licensing again I'm not a lawyer. But by not profiting (my take on profit) I am no different than a library from a moral standpoint.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19100985 - 11/07/13 02:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you buy a song and then give it to someone else and delete it from your computer, you're no different than the library and you're not doing anything wrong.

If you buy a song and give it to 10 friends along with keeping a copy for yourself, you just fucked the copyright holder over.  Telling yourself otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19101012 - 11/07/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So I either am or am not profiting from the use of the free copyrighted material.

Pick

There is no difference between a hard drive and a library. One is physical one is digital.

You are making a pretty fine line in your moral code there.


Edited by Juicin (11/07/13 02:45 PM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19101031 - 11/07/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not at all.  Making the copy without permission is profiting.  If you give a copy to someone and delete yours there was no profit because the net number of copies didn't change.  For YOU to increase the number of copies out there without permission is profiting.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19101052 - 11/07/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

But as I said before, I don't recognize artists rights to control the number of digitized copies of the intellectual property. As some one who grew up in the digital age it was hard for me to wrap my head around your argument. Now that I understand I'm saying there is nothing morally wrong from me keeping a copy of some one's music.

Morally this is no different than being a library. Depending on what you share you could be doing the community a service.

edit - from my viewpoint, and probably a lot of my generations.


Edited by Juicin (11/07/13 02:52 PM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19101067 - 11/07/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're entitled to your opinion, however self-serving and irrational it might be.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19101084 - 11/07/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You're entitled to your opinion, however self-serving and irrational it might be.




So do you think ancient scholars transcribing text was theft?

You have a very strong view on people's right to control information


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19101115 - 11/07/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thanks for ruining my thread guys...


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19101212 - 11/07/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Juicin said:
So do you think ancient scholars transcribing text was theft?

You have a very strong view on people's right to control information



I don't know if it was theft or not.  The notion of intellectual property didn't exist at the time, so probably not.  Historical arguments like that are pretty weak.  Lots of things were morally acceptable that would be universally condemned today. 

I do have strong views on people's right to control the distribution of their creations, yes.  I see a strong value in the concept of intellectual property where you see none.  I suspect your opinion comes from ignorance and/or unwillingness to look at the bigger picture. 

In any case, you want shit for free, so no one is going to convince you that you're morally culpable for taking it for free.  Like so many others, your morals are defined by your desires.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19101219 - 11/07/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
thanks for ruining my thread guys...



We made your thread interesting.  Your threads, as a rule, suck so badly that you should be glad that someone other than you took the initiative to improve one of them.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19101240 - 11/07/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

whatever you say, guy.

i wouldnt be braggin too much. i mean, you did just debate the legalities of pirating for the past 3 hours...


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19101264 - 11/07/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The morality...not the legality.  Your reading comprehension is piss poor.

There is no question that it's illegal.  You're violating federal law on a regular basis, and hopefully you'll be fined for it, although I'd be just as happy to see you end up in federal pound-in-the-ass prison. 

That's unlikely though. 

A man can still dream...


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19101280 - 11/07/13 03:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

nigga, im hard. prison aint shit for me. got family up and down dominquez which is where id prob go. you know what though. while im locked up im going to think of nothing but finding you and man handling your ass. thats right. im gonna DSYSB. it aint gay either cause i would have been locked up for so long. im doing push ups now.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19101302 - 11/07/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I said federal prison, kid.  No parole up in that motherfucker.  You'll have lots of time to sit and ponder all of the things you'd like to do to some random internet dude's ass...

...since obviously that's your thing.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19101310 - 11/07/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

youre my thing.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19101323 - 11/07/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You'll have to take a number, holmes.  There is a line of e-badasses hoping for a piece of me.  You're neither the cleverest nor the most interesting of the lot.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19104917 - 11/08/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Juicin said:
So do you think ancient scholars transcribing text was theft?

You have a very strong view on people's right to control information



I don't know if it was theft or not.  The notion of intellectual property didn't exist at the time, so probably not.  Historical arguments like that are pretty weak.  Lots of things were morally acceptable that would be universally condemned today. 

I do have strong views on people's right to control the distribution of their creations, yes.  I see a strong value in the concept of intellectual property where you see none.  I suspect your opinion comes from ignorance and/or unwillingness to look at the bigger picture. 

In any case, you want shit for free, so no one is going to convince you that you're morally culpable for taking it for free.  Like so many others, your morals are defined by your desires.




You honestly think patenting things like medicine and technology is helpful to society?

It's easy to defend broadening access to information that improves quality of life. For example ancient authors transcribing text. Obviously it becomes much more of a grey area when you're talking about entertainment. But you give up the right to control information as soon as you let it into the public sphere.


Edited by Juicin (11/08/13 10:42 AM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19105054 - 11/08/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Juicin said:


You honestly think patenting things like medicine and technology is helpful to society?






Yes. It provides the capital and motivation to develop them.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19105067 - 11/08/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
If you buy a song and then give it to someone else and delete it from your computer, you're no different than the library and you're not doing anything wrong.

If you buy a song and give it to 10 friends along with keeping a copy for yourself, you just fucked the copyright holder over.  Telling yourself otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.




not in canada, i get taxed on the blank cd's i buy for this purpose


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105111 - 11/08/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

double post of greatness


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105120 - 11/08/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Poor Boy said:
thanks for ruining my thread guys...



We made your thread interesting.  Your threads, as a rule, suck so badly that you should be glad that someone other than you took the initiative to improve one of them.



^^^^^^^

Quote:

Enlil said:
If you buy a song and then give it to someone else and delete it from your computer, you're no different than the library and you're not doing anything wrong.

If you buy a song and give it to 10 friends along with keeping a copy for yourself, you just fucked the copyright holder over.  Telling yourself otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.



in the case of people who care about intellectual property. yeah. otherwise. you could argue that, it's yours; you bought it, and fuck anyone tell you what to do with WHAT YOU BOUGHT YOURSELF. that is, if you really don't give a flying fuck about intellectual property, i mean.

1: intellectual property rights in practice is useful for the music industry, but on principle, it's rather despicable to the customer to restrict the freedom of use for the items and wares THEY BUY with THEIR MONEY.

2: i don't agree with the notion that the music industry is run well. as a business it maybe is (but not even as good as it could be), but as a distribution industry of musical wares, it serves no purpose to artistic freedom or merit. it serves only the artists that are mainstream and popular, and even then, those artists and others don't get their fair share from the industry.


Edited by akira_akuma (11/08/13 11:36 AM)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19105250 - 11/08/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Juicin said:
You honestly think patenting things like medicine and technology is helpful to society?




Absolutely.  Without patent protection, many innovations simply wouldn't happen.  Why would a company invest billions in developing a drug if, after they did, another company could simply make the product for cheaper, thus never letting the developing company recoup their investment?

Without IP protection, there would be very little incentive for anyone to create new stuff.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105277 - 11/08/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it's little more important for an industry and actually advances things for us humans, on an evolutionary standpoint. ie being able to deal with disease and have great expansion and communications capabilities. the entertainment industry though, it's kinda fruitless.

1: people will pirate and 2: people still make shit that is at the very most, only ALMOST the same as what someone else made previously, though it's still considered original. it wouldn't be any different with no IP protection, except for the fact of material gain.

for the adage of innovation, it helps the entertainment industry very minimally, form what i can see.

could be wrong though. :shrug: personally, i plan a buying lots of the records i have DLd because i like them, and since i don't distribute, trade or even lend music, i would feel like i've profited by having DLd a copy first, before buying it. if i still buy it afterall, then aren't i evening the scales, so to speak?


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105302 - 11/08/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Juicin said:
You honestly think patenting things like medicine and technology is helpful to society?




Absolutely.  Without patent protection, many innovations simply wouldn't happen.  Why would a company invest billions in developing a drug if, after they did, another company could simply make the product for cheaper, thus never letting the developing company recoup their investment?

Without IP protection, there would be very little incentive for anyone to create new stuff.




Less incentive, not very little

And you could publicly fund cures instead of proprietary treatments. Monetizing important information is rarely a moral thing. Polio vaccine? The patent system gives people incentives to do bad things in the medical industry.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
    #19105382 - 11/08/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The patent system gives people incentives to make better products because they know they can recoup the cost to develop it.  Without patent protection, a company would develop a drug and then go under as another company takes advantage of the billions spent by the first company. 

Public funding is a terrible idea.  That only encourages endless research without actual development.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19105456 - 11/08/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Without IP protection, there would be very little incentive for anyone to create new stuff.




In the case of music, I don't believe that's true. Numerous people I think of as great musicians have day jobs and play music for fun and perhaps a couple hundred bucks here and there for weekend gigs. People like this will always make music whether there's money in it or not, because they love doing it (in other words they're amateurs in the truest sense.) The same is not as true of things like big budget movies and pharmaceutical research. These activities would most likely be scaled back quite a bit in the absence of IP protections.

IMO IP laws are best looked at as a means to an end (e.g. rewarding things considered worthwhile) rather than as a pre-existing moral right, so the pros and cons of any particular protection scheme are always up for debate (i.e. what are you trying to encourage by punishing copying, how well is it at furthering those goals, and what are the downsides of that protection.) If the objective behind punishing the unauthorized copying of music is to make sure that good music is available, is it working in that regard? Is it helping more talented but relatively unknown musicians on the threshold of profitability to support themselves through music? Are the makers of great music that will be remembered for generations the people who get the biggest rewards from IP protections?

In the case of non-commercial copying, enforcement is essentially impossible anyway when the copying doesn't take place in a public venue like the internet (or when it takes place over the internet in ways that are obscured sufficiently.) Many people copied records to cassette tape to trade with friends in the era before digital music, and the chances of enforcing the law in those cases were essentially zero. The same applies today to lending out CDs or bringing a hard drive over to a friend's house and swapping terabytes of data. The convenience of doing this will only increase as large capacity SSDs get cheaper and transfer speeds increase. Punishing this type of activity is essentially impossible, but applying levies to storage media is fairly straightforward.

Prosecuting commercial copying is a lot more practical since it generally involves some kind of public presence when done on a larger scale (e.g. the guy selling pirated DVDs at the flea market.)


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: psi]
    #19105579 - 11/08/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There will always be people who make music, movies, paintings, and pharmaceuticals for free or very cheap.  There are always people who will work for free at any job.

Those are not the people who IP laws are meant to protect.  They don't want or need protection.  Similarly, employment laws are not meant to protect the guy who volunteers at the local dog shelter for free.

The laws are meant for the rest of us...those of us trying to survive and compete in a capitalistic society. 

And maybe it isn't even about money.  Maybe it's about protecting the work.  If you make a cheeseball film shot on hd video, maybe you only want it seen as you intended it to be seen...on HD video as you edited it.  Maybe you don't want the world to see some shaky-camera-in-a-theatre version on youtube in 320p and think it's your work.

The same logic can be applied to any art.

It comes down to the same thing I said before.  Either you believe in the concept of intellectual property or you don't.  Either my creations are mine to choose what to do with them or they are public domain.  My reasons for wanting only one copy of my movie to exist are my own, and it's not your call.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105621 - 11/08/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Either my creations are mine to choose what to do with them or they are public domain.  My reasons for wanting only one copy of my movie to exist are my own




well, no one is stealing from you, so... if you release it... :shrug: they're both public domain and your work.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105670 - 11/08/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Also lots of patent never get found because someone would lose alot of money if it was. So maybe the patent should only extend 5-10 years then it is public domain giving companys time to make back money and advance way beyond the competition in that time but also not holding back humanity.and music and art have no place for patents like movies once it's released it's public domain.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19105694 - 11/08/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Patents have a time limit, as do copyrights.

The concept that releasing a film makes it public domain is just stupid.  The only way you can reconcile that is through hippie logic.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105707 - 11/08/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i bought it. it's mine now. i'll fart on it, piss on it, shit on it, spit on it, spin around on the floor, or trade it for goods, if i fucking want to.

there is no reconciling that.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105730 - 11/08/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You can certainly do all of those things.  You just can't copy it without ripping off the copyright holder.  If you're morally okay with doing that, so be it.  If the copyright holder sues you for $50k, so be it.

No skin off my dick either way.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105732 - 11/08/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

and if i take a copy that i didn't copy myself? how does that fit into your paradigm? really, i'm curious.

personally, i used to object to piracy, and i used to too buy all my CDs, and i'm thinking of reverting back to that rationale.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105738 - 11/08/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you take a copy that was made without copyright holder's permission, and you knew it was made without copyright holder's permission, your morally in the wrong...but again, you're free to be as morally reprehensible as you want.

And the copyright holder is free to sue you if he/she/it wants.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105752 - 11/08/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

why is he/she free to sue me? how so? i didn't copy anything. explain your reasoning, please. why should i be able to be sued when i perpetrated no copyright infringement myself?

this may be morally wrong, but it isn't legally... i didn't copy anything, it was copy by someone else, and put on the internet. i simply took it off a website.

how is that me copying anything?


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105789 - 11/08/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm:

Are you really that ignorant about how the internet works?  When you download something, you're copying it from that server to your computer.  It doesn't move the data...it copies it.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105808 - 11/08/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i didn't copy it for distribution. i didn't distribute it. it's just there... it should be removed, and maybe the person who put in the server could be held liable. this is my argument. not that rhetorical crap your passing off.

how am i liable for someone else's copying and distribution? you can explain yourself, or not. you won't, because you're morally obligated to nitpick about the difference between physical or digital copies being negligible; and you can't explain why it's negligible.:shrug: from a legal standpoint, anyways.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105831 - 11/08/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
:facepalm:

Are you really that ignorant



The answer is yes, he is.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105835 - 11/08/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

From a legal standpoint, it's crystal clear.  By downloading copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder, you're in violation of the law.  That's not up for debate.

Whether you think it's morally right or wrong is a different issue, but it is certainly illegal.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105855 - 11/08/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, i understand that it's crystal clear, except for one thing... why? WHY am i committing a crime, by simply downloading material that i had nothing to do with copying or distributing? WHY? how am i responsible or liable for "stealing" from the artist? how is it as much a crime of the sole arbiter of it's copying and distribution? all i did was take something basically speaking "off the ground". it's like a just found it... i found it and picked it up. i didn't do anything else. i didn't make the attempt to "steal" anything. :shrug:

i'm not talking moral obligations... i'm talking about a legal definition of what makes me the criminal who is "stealing".


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105866 - 11/08/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't say you were committing a crime.  I said it was illegal.  Whether it rises to the level of a crime or not depends on other factors.

The internet isn't the ground.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105880 - 11/08/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

shitty metaphor but nevertheless, it's still just me finding something. i'm not copying for the purposes of distribution, i am copying for the sake of my own personal use; and i'm taking something i found, not something i've "stolen".

regardless, i don't want to see artists go out of business because of piracy. i'm considering the moral value of this, not for legality, but as an artist myself.

i figure people who DL music, will actually buy it at some point, but it doesn't stop the fact of music being available for free without anything going to the artist. that is a problem, for sure.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105890 - 11/08/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It comes down to the same thing I said before.  Either you believe in the concept of intellectual property or you don't.  Either my creations are mine to choose what to do with them or they are public domain.  My reasons for wanting only one copy of my movie to exist are my own, and it's not your call.




I don't think it's quite that black and white. I don't "believe in" the concept of intellectual property in the sense that one might believe in a religion, but the concept itself undeniably does exist in our world and many would agree it has some important benefits. Some see it as a "natural right" that's absolute and not up for debate, some see it as a means to an end (e.g. encouraging desirable innovation,) and some see it as totally useless and a limitation on their freedom to innovate further. To me it seems pretty obvious that it's a construct, a means to an end. Different forms of IP expire within different time periods, and those are decided with the idea of striking a balance that makes sense for the affected field. The stance that authors simply have a natural right to absolute control over their works is not consistent with allowing those protections to expire (IMO.)

If the simplest inventions and creative works were protected in perpetuity, the effect would actually be to discourage further innovation. If someone held a perpetual patent on the wheel and axle or a copyright on the diatonic scale and its derivative chords, a likely result would be near-total stagnation in affected fields. Luckily though IP protections are substantially limited.


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105899 - 11/08/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No, you're copying something that is on the internet without permission of the copyright holder and then treating that copy like it is your own.

It's no different than if you went to a movie theatre and videotaped the screen.  After all, you're just recording something you saw, right?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: psi]
    #19105909 - 11/08/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:


I don't think it's quite that black and white. I don't "believe in" the concept of intellectual property in the sense that one might believe in a religion, but the concept itself undeniably does exist in our world and many would agree it has some important benefits. Some see it as a "natural right" that's absolute and not up for debate, some see it as a means to and end (e.g. encouraging desirable innovation,) and some see it as totally useless and a limitation on their freedom to innovate further. To me it seems pretty obvious that it's a construct, a means to an end. Different forms of IP expire within different time periods, and those are decided with the idea of striking a balance that makes sense for the affected field. The stance that authors simply have a natural right to absolute control over their works is not consistent with allowing those protections to expire (IMO.)

If the simplest inventions and creative works were protected in perpetuity, the effect would actually be to discourage further innovation. If someone held a perpetual patent on the wheel and axle or a copyright on the diatonic scale and its derivative chords, a likely result would be near-total stagnation in affected fields. Luckily though IP protections are substantially limited.



All rights, morals, and laws are constructs...and none of those are ever absolute.  Beyond that, what exactly is your point?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105926 - 11/08/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, but if i keep that video for myself, i don't see how it's stealing, i payed to go fucking see the movie. :lol: but i see you're point, but for clarification, this is what i disagree with.

if I DON'T MOVE the product, past what my personal use of it is, then how the FUCK am i doing something morally wrong? legally, it just "is what it is", right. but WHY?

i don't MOVE or DISTRIBUTE. I KEEP, what i payed for, in the case of the movie example.

in the case of the downloading, again, i might be legally committing a crime... but how am i morally committing crime? i didn't PUT the item on the internet, to break the permissions from the artist. someone else did. how am i morally responsible? maybe in principle i am guilty of being negligent of the fact that it's there illegally. however, then i don't know how i can be held legally responsible; when i am not the one who put it there to be taken. i get it, the law is crystal clear, it's illegal. but WHY am i the one committing the crime, if am not aware of the publications/movie/album's permissions and copyrights in the first place?


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105952 - 11/08/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
All rights, morals, and laws are constructs...and none of those are ever absolute.  Beyond that, what exactly is your point?



Mainly that I believe it's an oversimplification to say that IP is something that you "either believe in or you don't," and that weaker IP protections can often be desirable. For the rest of my point, refer back to the post itself.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105965 - 11/08/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So, because someone else made it easy for you, you're not morally responsible? 

If a woman was already tied up and unconscious in an alley and had been raped by seven guys, would you not be morally responsible if you gave her a poke too before you got her to a hospital?  After all, you only used her for your own personal use...you didn't share her.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105983 - 11/08/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no, i'd absoutuly be morally responsible. but in the case of downloading a music album or movie, if someone else made it as easy as picking it up off a website for free, i might be morally reprehensible to you for taking it, but am i legally responsible for it having been there? i don't think so. so in that sense, i don't see how i'd be committing any real crime. just a matter of happenstance, that i happened to click on a link that happened to lead to a download of files on my computer that happened to be invalid of the IP laws of ones respective country. :shrug:


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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19105992 - 11/08/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're legally responsible for taking it.  Again, I didn't say it was a crime...but it's certainly illegal.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
    #19105994 - 11/08/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok, point taken. i'm just curious if i should have cause for concern, considering i have DL'd music. i actually kinda feel bad about it, with the ramifications of musicians futures in making music for their livelihood. if i was trying to make money off of my music, i'd like to sell it at an acceptable price online... an album shouldn't cost 30 something dollars, in my opinion. the music itself should be worth more then the plastic and paper it comes with. it should be an option, ALWAYS, to purchase an album online, in high quality FROM the artist themselves. so the proceeds go to the artist directly. 15 bucks to an artist directly, per pop, should be a livable and discernible payment for their work; and i said, it should simply be AN OPTION. this is just conjecture on my part however, as i don't know what costs record companies would get hit with doing that.


Edited by akira_akuma (11/08/13 02:50 PM)


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Invisiblelighthouse09
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19106036 - 11/08/13 02:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i do pay for movies from time to time and go to the  theater sometimes but to watch a movie thats not in theaters anymore and they charge $20 to download not even own the disc i think is to much usually i just wait and it comes to netflix . times do seem to be changing and downloading is getting cheaper now so maybe movies are an exception and maybe they should'nt blow so may billions into making all these huge budget films.


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19106076 - 11/08/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

one time in my teens i dl some musics, and then i downloaded an album that must of been a virus and it wiped all my music, even ones i didnt even illegally down load (i had it all in the same folder)

i think it might have even been Metallica album that did it :lol: but im not 100% sure on that


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: hidenseek1]
    #19106093 - 11/08/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl: that would been the best virus if Lars Ulrich came up on your desktop ala Hackers/Jurassic Park style, going "HAHAHAHAHA that's what you get!"

PS:
Quote:

Like so many others, your morals are defined by your desires.


isn't everybodys? even as ethical and rational as you can be, your morality is till based on your desires.


Edited by akira_akuma (11/08/13 04:04 PM)


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