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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 897
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
#19100155 - 11/07/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
sVs said: Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing
You're lying. You don't know anywhere near a billion people.
To the OP: If you're okay with stealing shit that other people have worked to create, then you should get caught. Unfortunately, you probably won't.
I don't understand this
How is some one sharing a file with you stealing?
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19100284 - 11/07/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
They actually recently released the super-HD to all users on any service provider... if you're using Windows 8. I haven't seen it, personally, as I use OS X. I feel you on the sound quality though. I personally still torrent most stuff in HD for any serious watching.
Wow, thanks for that info. I had no idea as I stream through my blu-ray player. It's an Oppo (brand), so it has the most advanced image and sound processing hardware on the market now. Weird that they may not be supporting the "Super HD" gimmick.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Poor Boy
Fuck'O The Clown



Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7,473
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
#19100293 - 11/07/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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sound like you gots yourself some cash.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
#19100296 - 11/07/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Join a private tracker?
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Poor Boy]
#19100307 - 11/07/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poor Boy said: sound like you gots yourself some cash.
meh, we all have hobbies. Lots of people on these forums spend thousands on camera's and cars. I just happen to spend it on home theater equipment. The Oppo is relatively cheap compared to the rest of the gear.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (11/07/13 12:35 PM)
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Poor Boy
Fuck'O The Clown



Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7,473
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
#19100313 - 11/07/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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you should spread some of that love and buy me some kratom. pay it forward...
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19100316 - 11/07/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
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DeeBee said:
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pwnasaurus said:
1) Non-Netflix has terrible quality 2) Netflix is very likely blocked at work 3) Netflix has kinda crappy selection.

1)Try using a better website. I always have good quality on everything but movies that just came out.
2)Did he say he was watching them at work?
3)QFT
1) You can stream 720p - 1080p? What free websites are you using? That sounds awesome.
2)
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Poor Boy said: 85% of my shit is on my pc at the house. if i feel like watching a movie at work, i throw it on a disc.
You can pirate blu-ray you just need a decent internet connection.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: ChinChiller]
#19100347 - 11/07/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Errolscool said: You can pirate blu-ray you just need a decent internet connection. 
You can stream it? Link? I know you can torrent HD rips. That is not streaming.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: badchad]
#19100350 - 11/07/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
They actually recently released the super-HD to all users on any service provider... if you're using Windows 8. I haven't seen it, personally, as I use OS X. I feel you on the sound quality though. I personally still torrent most stuff in HD for any serious watching.
Wow, thanks for that info. I had no idea as I stream through my blu-ray player. It's an Oppo (brand), so it has the most advanced image and sound processing hardware on the market now. Weird that they may not be supporting the "Super HD" gimmick.
They will be rolling out it to all devices eventually, they just haven't gotten there yet.
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil] 1
#19100479 - 11/07/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
sVs said: Seems pretty unlikely, as I know of roughly a billion people who do the same thing
You're lying. You don't know anywhere near a billion people.
To the OP: If you're okay with stealing shit that other people have worked to create, then you should get caught. Unfortunately, you probably won't.
I don't see it as stealing, per se. There are a million arguments that I'm not sure I have the patience to write out right now. Regardless, you've probably heard many of them and would just see it as excuses or semantics. But to be brief:
1- It is not stealing in the strict, traditional sense. In that sense, someone takes a physical object which does not belong to them, without permission, and that physical object is no longer there for anyone else to use. This is making a digital copy of a digital copy, which is only "stealing" in the way of a legal definition, IMO (and only loosely so)...and...
2- ...is only morally "wrong" insofar as it translates to lost revenue. And perhaps it does, to a degree, or in some cases. But I've also read arguments and numbers indicating that this kind of thing may not hurt revenue as much as some would claim. And in some cases (and here I am referencing the music industry, specifically) may even help sales.
3- Sharing of media has long been legal, and/or at least highly tolerated in the industry and among the public. People have long made copies of their favorite music and movies for friends to enjoy, or simply let them borrow their physical copy, without reproducing it. How is file sharing much different than lending a friend a DVD or book, or CD? With the exception of the fact that it is often strangers you're sharing with? That person is still enjoying media they did not pay for, which the authors/producers are not generating additional revenue for. If this kind of thing were illegal, or even highly morally objectionable, LIBRARIES where a single copy of a book, or film, or album is lent to many, many people (without paying) would not exist.
4- People who share files still support these industries. Some much more so than others. Who knows, I'm sure there are some people out there who download just about everything and pay for nothing. Just like there are people who buy everything and download nothing. And then, there is an absolute ton of people in between.
Sure, I have downloaded a bunch of Nine Inch Nails albums, for example. And for brief periods, I probably also shared some of these with other people. But I've been buying, with cash money buying Nine Inch Nails albums since what.... 1992? Some multiple copies. The worst, I think was The Downward Spiral which I must have bought 3 or 4 copies of, alone. Not to mention videos, and other merchandise like T-shirts. As far as the label, I'm sure I've also bought a lot of other music on Interscope, or whatever label it is he's on now.
Additionally, just by being a fan of his music, and talking about it online and to people IRL, sharing the music, etc, I am generating free advertising and potentially increasing his fan base. This, of course, applies to many artists and forms of media.
Maybe I downloaded a copy of Ridiculous Romantic Comedy Number Ten Billion Starring Matthew McConaughey and Renee Zellweger, Produced and Distributed by Whoever... but I've also probably bought or legally rented, or went to see a bunch of other movies, starring those people, or directed by, and certainly others produced or distributed by.... etc. In other words, I'm definitely still throwing cash at this industry.
(Hell, I'm pretty sure the ISP I pay to be able to download stuff is a major company, or owned by a major company that owns some other company that owns rights to a bunch of this stuff....)
And the thing is, we are talking about some pretty well paid industries. Many of the jobs.... no, most of the jobs in this industry pay a bit better than is average for other industries. Especially, of course, popular artists, actors, directors, etc. Who are paid insanely, disproportionately well. But even technical people on films are paid pretty well compared to your average wal mart employee. who is illegally downloading some stuff, even while continuing to support the industry in other ways.
I think a lot of people disagree with the disparity of the system. Where some people and their work are highly valued, and others not. And I think this is one of the few ways the common people have to really disagree with that system and "get away with it." For now, at least.
And again, I'm not saying "stealing" is okay... but I don't think this is stealing. And you'll just have to take my word (or not) when I tell you that I am highly sympathetic to the notion of artists (or anyone, really, but especially artists) to be paid well for their work. But they are being paid well. The average income for a performer, or a director, or etc, have certainly not dropped since file sharing has exploded in popularity, have they?
As far as I can see, the only people even potentially being harmed, in any major way are the distribution companies, and maybe people who count on royalties as part of their earnings. But I've already covered how these people are not only paid fairly well, but that their popularity in and of itself is profitable to them, which file sharing actually helps. And big corps are often, IMHO, the next closest thing to fucking Satan On Earth, and they're not about to go broke any time either, so that part of the equation is the least of my concern. They are the types of people who benefit most from having a crooked system where those with massive wealth and power can constantly benefit to the detriment of those with less... so my apologies if I seem a little less sympathetic on that end.
Point being, as far as I can see the industry is doing just fine, with the existence of file sharing. Maybe some day a more fair version of the market will exist, where people are asked to pay a much more reasonable price, and CEOs and the like are willing to accept a much more reasonable wage, and many more people will both want to, and be able to more frequently support these industries.
Well, that went on way longer than I intended / wanted it to. Sorry for going all socialist hippie or whatever at the end there. It's just not an uncomplicated issue and touches on a lot of other social issues, IMO.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
Edited by CidneyIndole (11/07/13 01:23 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: CidneyIndole]
#19100514 - 11/07/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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All of that sounds like rationalization to me. At its core, however, it's devaluing the work of someone else. Whether it is the artist that sells the copyright of a song to a big corporation or is trying to sell the song himself online, every copy out there made outside of the copyright reduces the value of that copyright.
The argument that these are big companies and highly paid individuals can be used for anything, really...if cheating the rich is okay, then we need to define who the rich are, and how much cheating is okay.
Finally, either you believe in intellectual property or you don't. Either you believe that an artist should have the right to decide how many copies of his work are out there, or you don't. I personally do believe that an artist has that right, and by making illegal copies of his work, you're taking that right from him.
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Poor Boy
Fuck'O The Clown



Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7,473
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
#19100548 - 11/07/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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thats what she said!
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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 897
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
#19100634 - 11/07/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: All of that sounds like rationalization to me. At its core, however, it's devaluing the work of someone else. Whether it is the artist that sells the copyright of a song to a big corporation or is trying to sell the song himself online, every copy out there made outside of the copyright reduces the value of that copyright.
The argument that these are big companies and highly paid individuals can be used for anything, really...if cheating the rich is okay, then we need to define who the rich are, and how much cheating is okay.
Finally, either you believe in intellectual property or you don't. Either you believe that an artist should have the right to decide how many copies of his work are out there, or you don't. I personally do believe that an artist has that right, and by making illegal copies of his work, you're taking that right from him.
Number of copies? Seems like a rather meaningless distinction when you're talking about something digitized. So if all it takes to become a thief is devaluing intellectual property, librarians are just as guilty as people sharing files.
I'm no lawyer but form a moral standpoint sharing files seems benign.
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
#19100657 - 11/07/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: All of that sounds like rationalization to me.
yeah, I kinda figured you'd feel that way. One of the reasons I was somewhat reluctant to write all that out.
Quote:
Enlil said: At its core, however, it's devaluing the work of someone else. Whether it is the artist that sells the copyright of a song to a big corporation or is trying to sell the song himself online, every copy out there made outside of the copyright reduces the value of that copyright.
I do kind of see your point here. I get it. And to a small extent I agree with it. In a very limited-view, technical sense. Yes, every copy made is theoretically potentially one less / lost sale. However, when you take into consideration other factors, it seems to become less true, in a greater scope. A copyrighted work is only worth as much (financially) as its own popularity; its own demand. Word of mouth can be more effective than advertising. A book or movie or album that no one wants, is worthless, even if the copyright is 100% respected, and no illegal copies are ever made. Inversely, the more people are interested in and want a particular piece of media, the greater the (potential, monetary) value of that work. Since it could be argued that file sharing increases popularity, giving that material greater exposure, it may help boost the demand for the media, and therefore potential customers. So while additional copies could be argued to detract from the value, the greater popularity could be argued to add to it.
And I would like to hear your view on how things like lending libraries, or just borrowing media from a friend, in a traditional sense, is different or should be acceptable, whereas the other is not....?
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: CidneyIndole]
#19100708 - 11/07/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CidneyIndole said: Since it could be argued that file sharing increases popularity, giving that material greater exposure, it may help boost the demand for the media, and therefore potential customers. So while additional copies could be argued to detract from the value, the greater popularity could be argued to add to it.
That's up to the artist, isn't it? After all, isn't the value of the Mona Lisa largely due to the fact that there is only one? Some artists may love the idea of mass distribution, while others might not want their work distributed at all. Isn't that the artists' choice? Who are you to make that choice for him/her?Quote:
And I would like to hear your view on how things like lending libraries, or just borrowing media from a friend, in a traditional sense, is different or should be acceptable, whereas the other is not....?
The difference is clear as night and day. A book of which there are 1000 copies is worth more than the same book would be worth at 10,000 copies. It doesn't matter whose hands a single copy is in or if it changes hands. There is still a scarcity of copies.
People (such as the poster above you) seem to think that because something is digital that it is a whole different thing. It might be from a technical standpoint, but from the point of view of the artist, it's the same heart and soul that goes into the work, and a part of the reason that artists do the work they do is because they know their work is protected by copyright laws.
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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 897
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
#19100865 - 11/07/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So the line here isn't sharing the property.The line is making a copy another person's intellectual property? I don't understand how some one can view data that way. It blows my mind but your argument is logical. The line morally for me is drawn at making a profit off some one else's property.
edit - words
Edited by Juicin (11/07/13 02:24 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
#19100890 - 11/07/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You make a profit because you get something for nothing. You get unlimited access to someone's work without his/her consent. That is a profit.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 897
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Enlil]
#19100919 - 11/07/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You make a profit because you get something for nothing. You get unlimited access to someone's work without his/her consent. That is a profit.
But by that definition the librarian is guilty, you have to pick
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Poor Boy
Fuck'O The Clown



Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7,473
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
#19100924 - 11/07/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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look guys. i just wanted watch internsip and not be bothered. ya dig?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: downloading and burning movies [Re: Juicin]
#19100929 - 11/07/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Juicin said: But by that definition the librarian is guilty, you have to pick
How do you figure? The copy that the librarian has access to is either a duly purchased copy or a donated copy, created with permission of the copyright holder.
Can you say the same thing of the digital copies on your computer?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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