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Offlinerkmate
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Registered: 10/07/11
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Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
My last grow was a few years ago, why has so much changed?
    #19097582 - 11/06/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hello all!

I grew mushrooms in college and thought I was a pro at growing. I had the whole process down pat. I took a long break and just returning to the hobby and want to grow again. I am overwhelmed with all the new information on this forum. Can someone help me understand why these new methods of the PF tek work better than the old methods? And also why the old methods aren't needed?



1. I always used the oven door technique back in the day for inoculating my jars and it always worked 99% of the time. Why does the teqs on here suggest open air inoculation? That's how I failed to begin with on my first grow.. I cant imagine this is even suggested! A glovebox is my back-up plan but jeez!

2. Why shouldn't I colonize my jars at 80 degrees? This was the perfect temp for speed of colonizing and no contamination issues. I see the guides now says to grow at room temp which is like 68-70 degrees. I will tell you first hand that is wayyy too cold. It would take twice the time to grow at such low temps, why is this even suggested as a preferred method?

3. Why should I not use a Tub in tub setup? I would buy 2 clear storage containers and put an aquarium heater in the bottom, fill it half way and set my temp to 78-80 degrees. Whats the benefit of not doing this? or how does this hurt my grow?

4. I used to dunk my jars and then add a 1cm layer of verm on the bottom and top of the jar, then drip some water on the verm every few days. This would increase my yields dramatically. Now I read that you should roll them in vermiculite, is this really better? A thin layer of verm all over?

5. Is having hundreds of holes in your fruiting chamber really needed? I used to poke a few holes around the container and take the lid off once or twice a day to air it out and I cant imagine this method working that much better.. Although I will try it!

Please help me understand!

Thanks everyone for any input!


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OfflinePussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
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Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
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Re: My last grow was a few years ago, why has so much changed? [Re: rkmate]
    #19097660 - 11/06/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rkmate said:
Can someone help me understand why these new methods of the PF tek work better than the old methods? And also why the old methods aren't needed?



What do you mean by "old methods"?

Quote:

rkmate said:
1. I always used the oven door technique back in the day for inoculating my jars and it always worked 99% of the time. Why does the teqs on here suggest open air inoculation? That's how I failed to begin with on my first grow.. I cant imagine this is even suggested! A glovebox is my back-up plan but jeez!



Using an oven is far worse...the kitchen is the 2nd dirtiest place in the house, and the heat is just blowing contams everywhere.

If you cannot work in a sterile air flow(Laminar Flow Hood), than  SAB(Still Air Box) is the next best thing.

Not a glove box, or an oven, or open air....

As for inoculations with needles, open air should be fine....flame the needle until red hot, then expunge a drop of solution to cool the needle and immediately penetrate the jar.

The needle should be fine for that split second.

Quote:

rkmate said:
2. Why shouldn't I colonize my jars at 80 degrees? This was the perfect temp for speed of colonizing and no contamination issues. I see the guides now says to grow at room temp which is like 68-70 degrees. I will tell you first hand that is wayyy too cold. It would take twice the time to grow at such low temps, why is this even suggested as a preferred method?



First of all 80F is fine, and 70F is not way too cold, and it would not take twice as long...it would take a little longer yes, but not double.

Room temp is suggested because it works just fine, and noobs tend to incubate at much higher temps, which ends up biting them in the ass.

Quote:

rkmate said:
3. Why should I not use a Tub in tub setup? I would buy 2 clear storage containers and put an aquarium heater in the bottom, fill it half way and set my temp to 78-80 degrees. Whats the benefit of not doing this? or how does this hurt my grow?



The only benefit would be you can control the temperature that the jars colonize at, which is not really that important if you can manage a 65-80F room temperature.

Quote:

rkmate said:
4. I used to dunk my jars and then add a 1cm layer of verm on the bottom and top of the jar, then drip some water on the verm every few days. This would increase my yields dramatically. Now I read that you should roll them in vermiculite, is this really better? A thin layer of verm all over?



Yes it's better than your method....this creates a microclimate on all sides of the cake...good for pinning.

Quote:

rkmate said:
5. Is having hundreds of holes in your fruiting chamber really needed? I used to poke a few holes around the container and take the lid off once or twice a day to air it out and I cant imagine this method working that much better.. Although I will try it!



1/4" holes every 2" on all 6 sides in a grid pattern.

Not just hundreds of random holes.

It's called a SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), and it is the gold standard for fruiting cakes.

You also put 4-5" of moist perlite in the bottom of it.

Air will flow up thru the holes in the bottom and up thru the perlite, humidifying the chamber.

Heat and humidity rise out the top holes and the process starts all over, in a big circle.

Totally self sustaining, minus a few misting/fannings per day.


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OfflineSgtGanja
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Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 134
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Re: My last grow was a few years ago, why has so much changed? [Re: rkmate]
    #19097682 - 11/06/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

1. The oven door tek is no longer used for inoculation due to the fact that bacteria thrive in warm places(to a certain point of course). Innoculating on the door of an oven is basically asking to increase risk of contamination due to the higher temperatures. It is also not suggested to inoculate in open air either. Innoculating in a glove box or in a small space that has been thoroughly cleaned, while following proper sterile procedure will yield the lowest risk of contamination.

2/3. It is suggested to keep the jars at room temperature during colonization for the same reason listed above, bacteria thrive in warm places. The insides of your jars will always be warmer than the surrounding air so any type of incubation will increase the temperature to a point that is just asking for contamination. For instance, if your jars are in a room at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, the inside of the jars should be between 78-80 degrees. If you incubate your jars at 80 degrees or so,  the internal temperature will rise to about 83-85 degrees. This high of a temperature during colonization is doing nothing other than sucking in more bacteria and opening more passages for contamination.

4. I don't do too much work with cakes so I can't speak too much for this tek but "dunk and roll" does seem to be the universally accepted method for increasing yield when growing with cakes. I would think that adding additional nutrition evenly to the entire cake rather than just the top/bottom would do more to increase overall yield.

5. As long as you can provide the tub with a proper amount of FAE by fanning (5 or so times) throughout the day, making that many holes is not completely necessary.

Hope this clears things up a little bit! :mushroom2:
Sgt


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun Flag
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
Re: My last grow was a few years ago, why has so much changed? [Re: rkmate]
    #19097684 - 11/06/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

1. That has been found to be completely useless and even counterproductive. The warm area draws in bacteria from around your room which makes it worse than open air. I work with grains, which are much less contam resistant, and usually do open air with no problem at all.
2. It's just too warm. I always do mine at room temp and they're usually done in less than 2 weeks.
3. The higher temps are really not needed and it over complicates things, also good fae may be difficult to achieve.
4. I'm not a pf tek guy, I can't help you here.
5. Yes, it is absolutely necessary! Mushrooms breathe a lot and if they don't get enough air they get tall, skinny, and nearly weightless:thumbdown:
Follow a tek to the t and you won't be sorry. Personally, I would ditch the pf tek all together and switch to monotubs and grains. Once you start harvesting handfulls of dried shrooms from your first 66 quart monotub, you will be sold! Happy growing, good luck!


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