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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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cactus light help!!
#19096710 - 11/06/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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so im looking to grow a few san pedros as well as a few peyotes from a seed. Im looking into lighting and have my eyes on a nice 240w led get-up. I know its overkill but im in an apartment with a 2x2 grow space and would the light be too much as in harmful to the plants? I will be running the light on a timer. I just cant spend my money on a cheap led lights id go with a t5 2ft 4 bulb before that. thoughts? im a noob and TIA
Edited by 2shoes (11/06/13 06:09 PM)
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: cactus light help!! [Re: 2shoes]
#19098038 - 11/06/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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From seed, a rough guide is go for 15-20w per square foot. 6400k works well. Towards the red spectrum can encourage more upwards growth which we don't want for lophs. Trich seedlings will need the sun sooner, or you will start to get etiolation. 15-20w per square foot will be good for the first year, maybe the 2nd year but they will start to crave more light.
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Thanks a lot and after reading around I have changed my mind and most likely going to try a cfl/led combo. I was thinking maybe a sunshine systems bulb 2nd gen and 2 cfls . would that work for the first year or so?
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: cactus light help!! [Re: 2shoes]
#19099025 - 11/07/13 04:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've not had a chance to play with LEDs yet. I just grabbed some cfl's for my seedlings, cheap and they do the job  Hopefully someone else can chime in with some experience of led and cacti seedlings.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Any led cfl will do the job as giving light for cacti if you grow them from seed.
After first year and assuming growth is relatively fast, I suggest to move trichocereus to windowsill.. Windowsill light are better for older cactus than cfl.
I find this out few years ago when I grow my first san pedro from seed. They was terrible under fluoros at age of 10months or so.. I move them to south-west windowsill for whole summer and they grow very healthy and big. Fluoros is not enough for trichocereus long time. Day light from window and occasional direct sun at age of 10-12months will let trichocereus grow more bigger and more diameter than fluoros can give..
I had 2x55Watt cfl lights to trichocereus long time ago and windowsill with occasional sun beat the lights and trichos starts really got an appearance like they should..
But anyway.. First months I like the cfl light for seedlings.. Later on I find out windowsill was far more better place to trichocereus cause occasional sunshine is very strong even it shines trough window. And columnars love it. Even there is no sunshine all day or not even every day. The light to windowsill are good and more better than only cfl bulbs.
If possible you can hang some cfl to ceiling above window so it gives best result growing columanrs indoors. You possible can grow them to age of 2 or 3 years before they starts to need really strong light.
About peyote cactus, they do fine under fluoros longer but it's not bad to let them have also direct sun from window when they are mature enough.
One year seems to be limit when cfl light should be change to something else or add more light power. Problem with cfl are simply light scattering. Anyway, you can use cfl long time if you want but I suggest to keep trichocereus cacti after few months age at windowsill to enjoy direct sun as well as non-direct all day. My trichos change their appearance very pleasant way when I move them away under cfl and let light comes from window with occasional direct sunlight.
Trichocereus can actually grow at good windowsill very long time if you want but they don't grow so big at diameter and can starts etiolate bad at age or +2years. If you have good windowsill where sunshine is very powerful, you can get nice cactus plants there.. and you can forget your cfl lights after first year or so. Peyote is not so critical to move to strong light fast. They do fine under cfl/led longer but if you want later on big fuzz hair to peyote, I suggest to give them as much sunlight as windowsill can offer. At later age of +2-4years peyote will love also warm direct sun at windowsill. Trichocereus need strong light more younger to avoid them growing etiolated and slim. Actually you need lots of cfl and led power to give as much light as trichocereus need later. ...cfl is good for first months to tricho but no later on cfl is worse than windowsill with occasional direct sun light.
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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thank you! my set-up is going to be a 10"x20" seed tray with propogation mat, 7" dome mylar lined, 2 27w cfl's with supplemental LED's. Ive heard that I'm wanting a more blue light for this. do I need to worry about CO2 or O2 at all? what kind of metering/testing should I look into (temp., humidity, light meter, ph)
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: cactus light help!! [Re: 2shoes]
#19100281 - 11/07/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't even measure temperatures nor humidity. Also don't worry much of light spectrum, it isn't necessary to young cactus. I use now for seedlings one 2700K 125 Wattage bulb only and they are okay. Spectrum for cacti are more critical when you have large plants and so on. Then you will see what spectrum of light cause certain growth in cactus. Anyway, with seedlings any light spectrum of cfl or combined cfl+led will do the job for first year easily.
Later on you just "know" what is good conditions for cacti.
Anyway.. You can get lots of fancy equipment if you want but they doesn't make cactus any better. Equipment only tell you situation of environment.
Forget them. Just make good soil, sow seeds, place them under light and after soil dry first time, spray some water for them.
Actually even for one month age seedlings, it isn't necessary to keep constant moisture at surface of growing medium.. Later on you have to anyway start to keep dry period between watering.
For example I have now about 4,5 month old lophophora seedlings, I barely water them at all.. About one or two times in week I moist the surface little bit. And cause it's winter time, I grow them with less water than usually.
I have notice about watering of seedlings one good thing what you should know. You grow cactus plant so don't worry are they got enough water. Dehydration are doing far more less damage to young seedlings than over watering. Too much water for seedlings isn't so forgiving way to grow cactus from seed than minor dehydration.
This way can reduce growth speed but not so much, be sure your seedlings really need the water before you start to spray it for them. No matter do you have trichocereus or lophophora, dehydration is far more forgiving way compared to too much watering of seedlings and you possible got lots of living cactus plants later.
I have seen even trichocereus seedlings can survive in dry long time. They shrivel a bit but when you water again, they plump up anyway. But root rot is not so easy with seedlings and usually you lost the young plant for rot.
I have actually one lophophora seedling growing at container where I have grafted peyote. Seedling comes from between rocks what I use as layer of soil. I have never even think there can germinate any seedling and that one has really seen long dry periods comparing to size and age of seedling. They are very tough. Just remember, lophophora are desert plant, it doesn't require constant moisture at any part of it's life.
Here is good example how lophophora can really grow even I don't water this container much.

So if that is possible, you don't need to worry most of the things, just make sure seedlings doesn't got any pests.
I am aware someone will keep seedlings in very humid at age of 6-12months before they move them away from dome what capture humidity. I grow also lophophora in miniature greenhouse what capture humidity but I have kept all holes open now some time and they tolerate over 2week of dry conditions at age of 4,5months or so. That one in the picture has never be in humidity box, it have just germinated between the rocks where possible humidity has been stay or something.
I have also grow trichocereus without any humidity bag or so but germinating rate was lower. It was my first cactus grow from seed long time ago.
Just remember they are desert plants and don't require lots of attention and water anyway, no matter of size of the plant. I suggest to use more water after you really know your plants and their limits. Otherwise let them have little bit less of water to make sure you success with them and get them to adults. It's not hard, just forget watering for a while. When you know more about plants you are growing, then it's good to push some limits if you want. I have done lots of failures with cactus seedlings so I have learn trough mistakes what should not do
In my mind that is good and best information to know and sad side of this is it require lots of failure and waste of seedlings cause pushing the limits of plants. I have learned lots about watering and best thing is to avoid it instead of worry do they have "enough" water. They actually always have "enough" water if soil is not bone dry for weeks anyway. You will see from seedlings when they have been in dry when they starts to look dehydrated and then it's last time to give them a drink of water.
I have learn about cacti that you can push the limits of cacti with drought even for young seedlings what is far more forgiving than try to push the limits with excess water..
Maybe their growth rate at first are not so fast but when you have larger hard grown cacti, it's worth of it. Later on you can try more with different environments to see what is really necessary amount of water and what goes too much to learn how fast you can grow cactus from seed. Just don't rush with watering and don't panic if soil is dry from surface even for one or two month old plants.
Edited by intelligentlife (11/08/13 05:59 AM)
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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great thanks a TON to those with input its a great help. so all said and done I ended up with a 10"w x 10"d 25h wood kitchen cabinet lined (interior) with mylar covered white 3/4 inch Styrofoam. and for lighting the 12w LED sunshine systems bulb (violet) and a 27w I think (small cfl) and a 24 hour timer. use a calibrated oven thermo for soil temps. also a 9" x 10" reptile heating mat can get my soil temps up to 85 degrees as I tested it. I just run the mat on the same timer as the lights.
$12 - craigslist cabinet $6 - 4 mylar emergency blankets (enough to do like 10) $7 - Styrofoam $5 - light timer $50 - LED 12w sunshine systems $12 - lowest wattage cfl I could find 56k I think $9 - flexible light socket $15 - random shit (electrical cords, adapters, bulb grease, tape, Velcro etc.) $10 - reptile mat
$126 total
thinking about adding a carbon filter or scrubber if they make them that small. space is more of an issue than money (live in an apt). any thoughts or input would be great. I can put pics up if anyone would like its I like it but its small.
(grammar Nazi's feel free to keep to yourselves mine is poor I know)
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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ooopps posted it twice!!!!!
Edited by 2shoes (11/15/13 05:29 PM)
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: cactus light help!! [Re: 2shoes]
#19141992 - 11/15/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I would not say space is an issue when cultivating lophophora plants indoors. Issues starts to come maybe after 10years or so, you can keep lophs in same container long time and next to each other longer. Also giving limited amount of water and fertilizers lophs keep smaller obviously.
With trichocereus you probably find problems with space and light after year or two if conditions are good when growing your seedlings. Also when you move them to windowsill and let them get occasional direct summer sunshine, you will see how they starts to grow more fat and "adult" but later on even windowsill light is not enough for trichocereus. Under cfl and led trichocereus will grow slim and etiolating quite fast so best thing for cactus is move them away under cfl and led after one year to let them get good and strong occasional sunshine.. You will see from your cactus how they enjoy sun light trough window.
Trichocereus can be grown also crowded in one pot. I have planted 2-3 more bigger trichocereus in one pot cause space is limited. Just remember to change pot to avoid too much root bound. Smaller trichocereus can be grow more bigger numbers in one pot before you need to transplant them to own pots or move them to pots where is maximum 2 or 3 plants per pot.
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2shoes
The anti-agar



Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 3,124
Loc: Not in a SAB
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Re: cactus light help!! [Re: 2shoes]
#19142119 - 11/15/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude you are like the shit. I plan on 2 trichs and 3 lophs per pot. this is just a "seed starter" but I did order 3 1cm rooted williamsii and 2 5-6cm pedros both with roots. lets hope all the seeds and plants ordered show up. (im in US)
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: cactus light help!! [Re: 2shoes] 1
#19144571 - 11/16/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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id think in terms of 30-50W ft, when it comes to lighting of cacti
for seeds, half that.
we have found it impractical to grow trichs indoors, and ,no longer recommend it.
lophs , breed like flies indoors under LED.

amp the lights pack your container with lophs.
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