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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Enlil]
    #19091305 - 11/05/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It would have to have been the eighties.  I couldn't afford coke in the seventies.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19091901 - 11/05/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:


Food stamp dollars get spent almost immediately.  There is no better form of economic stimulus outside of infrastructure development, which our current congress has for whatever reason decided is not a national priority.

Quote:




That has to be one of the most assinine things I've ever hear.  How is taking money from one person, filtering it through the government, then giving it to someone else an efficient way to stimulate the economy.  NOTHING WAS CREATED.  It is not even a zero-sum game. 

The person from whom the money was originally taken would have spent it, or saved it.  If it was saved, it would have been used by the savings institution as capital to fund new companies THAT CREATE SOMETHING. 

Remember the ridiculous multi-hundreds of billion dollars DICKULUS that was supposed to create shovel ready jobs?  It was a handout to certain organizations and businesses and did little to create jobs. 

"HO HO HO, It Looks like those jobs weren't so shovel ready....."  BHO.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Enlil]
    #19095790 - 11/06/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's ridiculous.  A system that has as much free labor as we're talking about could easily accommodate people that have job interviews or need child care.  There would be thousands of people available to help out with that.




So basically you want to do away with welfare and go one step away from a communist state, no?  From each according to his ability, to each according to his need...

Quote:

As far as how it looks to potential employers, that's gonna depend from employer to employer...but we can be certain of one thing: long-term unemployment looks very bad to potential employers.  If the applicant could put down the work he's been doing on the program as his current employment, that will increase his odds of being hired over what they would be if he had nothing.




That's true.  I would still like to see some data.  I think the resource drain would be the primary factor affecting things here.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19095823 - 11/06/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You're not going to see any data unless/until they actually implement something like that.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19095846 - 11/06/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
My answer to "Why shouldn't people on food stamps have to work for them?" is it's not a business transaction, where goods and services are exchanged.  It's a handout designed to deal with certain problems in society.  I'm obviously answering the question, you just don't like my answer, stop being obtuse.




That is not an answer.  Saying it is a handout does not address the question of why it should be a handout. 




Alternative answer: it should be a handout because the fewer restrictions you have on programs like these the more people use them.

Quote:


I have no problem with federal taxes being spent on security.  I have a huge problem with them being spent on local things.




This is a really silly distinction.  Every border incident is a local thing.  Every time a soldier gets paid it is a local thing.  Every time there is a contract to produce a weapon it pays people on a local level.

Quote:

Quote:

You want to start an anarchist revolution and do away with government altogether, I'm all for that.  But if you want the thing around, then there are going to be programs with goals you dislike.




This endless idiocy that opposing the federal welfare state is somehow anarchistic is as played out as three day dead pipe




So is your railing against the bums.

Quote:

If you want to eat you have to work.  How is that a complex concept for you?




Quite obviously this isn't true.

Quote:

Quote:


Given that one's tax burden affects one's wealth, how could it be that we have a unfair tax burden but a fair distribution of wealth?




A very few pay for the very many.  The vast majority of the populace are leeches sucking the tit of the few.




So sounds like those very few are going to have their wealth unfairly distributed...

Quote:


Of course there is a fair way to distribute the tax burden.  Everybody pays the same percent of their income.




Not a fair system either.  Bill Gates paying 20% of his income is not the same thing as a man making $10,000 a year paying 20% of his income.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19095865 - 11/06/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Then he needs to have some actual evidence showing that programs with such requirements actual improve employment outcomes.  My suspicion would be it would not in most circumstances.  "Work" experience for a governmental program is not going to impress many employers.  Meanwhile, the problem with being poor is that you're usually resource-poor in other ways as well (especially on time and energy), and requiring people to spend their scarce time and energy on make-work sharply curtails their ability to spend those resources actually improving their economic situation, whether by finding a better job, going back to school, etc.




I don't give a fuck about their gained work experience.  I give a fuck that no healthy person should get something for nothing.  Ever.




And here is the heart of the thing.  Why do you give a fuck?  And why should we institutionalize your insistence on giving a fuck?


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OfflineEddYerb
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' *DELETED* [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19096040 - 11/06/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19096329 - 11/06/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
My answer to "Why shouldn't people on food stamps have to work for them?" is it's not a business transaction, where goods and services are exchanged.  It's a handout designed to deal with certain problems in society.  I'm obviously answering the question, you just don't like my answer, stop being obtuse.




That is not an answer.  Saying it is a handout does not address the question of why it should be a handout. 




Alternative answer: it should be a handout because the fewer restrictions you have on programs like these the more people use them.




And you somehow perceive that as a good thing?  How is a work requirement a restriction?
Quote:



Quote:


I have no problem with federal taxes being spent on security.  I have a huge problem with them being spent on local things.




This is a really silly distinction.  Every border incident is a local thing.  Every time a soldier gets paid it is a local thing.  Every time there is a contract to produce a weapon it pays people on a local level.




That is asinine.  Soldiers are not local expenses.  Weapons procurement are not local expenses.  Bike paths are.  Schools are.  Most roads and bridges are.
Quote:


Quote:

Quote:

You want to start an anarchist revolution and do away with government altogether, I'm all for that.  But if you want the thing around, then there are going to be programs with goals you dislike.




This endless idiocy that opposing the federal welfare state is somehow anarchistic is as played out as three day dead pipe




So is your railing against the bums.


  No it isn't.  Bums are draining us dry.  Fuck bums.
Quote:



Quote:

If you want to eat you have to work.  How is that a complex concept for you?




Quite obviously this isn't true.




Quite obviously it is true that that is a difficult concept for you
Quote:



Quote:

Quote:


Given that one's tax burden affects one's wealth, how could it be that we have a unfair tax burden but a fair distribution of wealth?




A very few pay for the very many.  The vast majority of the populace are leeches sucking the tit of the few.




So sounds like those very few are going to have their wealth unfairly distributed...




Going to?
Quote:



Quote:


Of course there is a fair way to distribute the tax burden.  Everybody pays the same percent of their income.




Not a fair system either.  Bill Gates paying 20% of his income is not the same thing as a man making $10,000 a year paying 20% of his income.




You're right.  The guy making $10,000 is still a leech.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19096335 - 11/06/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Then he needs to have some actual evidence showing that programs with such requirements actual improve employment outcomes.  My suspicion would be it would not in most circumstances.  "Work" experience for a governmental program is not going to impress many employers.  Meanwhile, the problem with being poor is that you're usually resource-poor in other ways as well (especially on time and energy), and requiring people to spend their scarce time and energy on make-work sharply curtails their ability to spend those resources actually improving their economic situation, whether by finding a better job, going back to school, etc.




I don't give a fuck about their gained work experience.  I give a fuck that no healthy person should get something for nothing.  Ever.




And here is the heart of the thing.  Why do you give a fuck?  And why should we institutionalize your insistence on giving a fuck?



Because I'm fucking paying for it.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Registered: 10/29/10
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19096695 - 11/06/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Then he needs to have some actual evidence showing that programs with such requirements actual improve employment outcomes.  My suspicion would be it would not in most circumstances.  "Work" experience for a governmental program is not going to impress many employers.  Meanwhile, the problem with being poor is that you're usually resource-poor in other ways as well (especially on time and energy), and requiring people to spend their scarce time and energy on make-work sharply curtails their ability to spend those resources actually improving their economic situation, whether by finding a better job, going back to school, etc.




I don't give a fuck about their gained work experience.  I give a fuck that no healthy person should get something for nothing.  Ever.




And here is the heart of the thing.  Why do you give a fuck?  And why should we institutionalize your insistence on giving a fuck?



Because I'm fucking paying for it.



You pay more a year for toliet paper then for food stamps. Quit bitching.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Smokey420]
    #19096793 - 11/06/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Why should I pay anything at all for your food stamps?


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19096822 - 11/06/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Why should families starve to death, or go malnourished  when all that's required to contribute is a smaller fraction of your paycheck then it takes to wipe your wrinkled old ass?

By the way, I've never been on food stamps in my life.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097090 - 11/06/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why should I pay anything at all for your food stamps?




How would you know somebody on the internet has food stamps?  I mean, with our knowledge of how much you pay illegal workers, maybe you shouldn't be bitching :shrug:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Smokey420]
    #19097104 - 11/06/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Why should families starve to death, or go malnourished  when all that's required to contribute is a smaller fraction of your paycheck then it takes to wipe your wrinkled old ass?




I got a better idea.  Why don't you feed them?  I'm sick of buying lobster for surfer dude.
Quote:



By the way, I've never been on food stamps in my life.




Good for you.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097113 - 11/06/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why should I pay anything at all for your food stamps?




How would you know somebody on the internet has food stamps?  I mean, with our knowledge of how much you pay illegal workers, maybe you shouldn't be bitching :shrug:




I didn't say I paid them anything.  Pay attention.  I know what day laborers get paid.  Some of them are illegal but they still get paid the same cash as the legal ones.  Which is probably more than you get paid.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097116 - 11/06/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've got a better idea, why don't the wealthy like zappa acknowledge that they were made wealthy by the capitalist system in place in the United States and pay their fair share of taxes?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097126 - 11/06/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I didn't say I paid them anything.  Pay attention.  I know what day laborers get paid.  Some of them are illegal but they still get paid the same cash as the legal ones.  Which is probably more than you get paid.





You know how much it costs to pay illegal immigrants to work, you know it is cheaper than American workers, you're a big proponent of capitalism, why would I think that you didn't hire illegals?  :shrug:

Maybe if you weren't so defensive about the subject you might have some credibility, but your adamant denial of hiring illegal immigrants is definitely sketchy.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097135 - 11/06/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
I've got a better idea, why don't the wealthy like zappa acknowledge that they were made wealthy by the capitalist system in place in the United States and pay their fair share of taxes?




Fair?  Is it fair that I pay $100,000 and you pay nothing?  I made my money providing a service that other people willingly paid for.  How do you make your money?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097138 - 11/06/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
I've got a better idea, why don't the wealthy like zappa acknowledge that they were made wealthy by the capitalist system in place in the United States and pay their fair share of taxes?




Fair?  Is it fair that I pay $100,000 and you pay nothing?  I made my money providing a service that other people willingly paid for.  How do you make your money?




So you're saying that you make roughly $400k a year (this is a conservative guess, since you say 50% of your "wealth" is "confiscated")?  That puts you in the top 5% of earners, what are you so butthurt about?  Maybe you should think of the government policies that made you wealthy.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097150 - 11/06/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I didn't say I paid them anything.  Pay attention.  I know what day laborers get paid.  Some of them are illegal but they still get paid the same cash as the legal ones.  Which is probably more than you get paid.





You know how much it costs to pay illegal immigrants to work, you know it is cheaper than American workers, you're a big proponent of capitalism, why would I think that you didn't hire illegals?  :shrug:




You clearly have an attention problem.  I don't hire any of them.  I know how much the day laborers you pick up at the shape up hall get paid.  It is no secret.
Quote:



Maybe if you weren't so defensive about the subject you might have some credibility, but your adamant denial of hiring illegal immigrants is definitely sketchy.




I don't hire them.  I use subs.  They might hire them but that isn't on me.

How much do you get paid?


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