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Invisiblejellyfish


Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
Why does my grow suck?
    #19096165 - 11/06/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18890436/page/1/fpart/2/vc/1

That was my first mono tub. I got a print from a member and used coco husk instead of coir and got an awesome pinset of mushrooms that grew mostly mutated, with veils non existent and not getting very big. I harvested during the first flush because I figured the substrate was over hydrated or that particular multispore just sucked. I have been trying to follow Franks teks and have no problems until fruiting.

This is my most recent tub, 4 L colonized rye, 7 L coir/gypsum/verm. I have mutants that look like caps growing from nothing and everything looks generally shitty. I have a small fan in the closet with my tub, the polyfil is looser at the tops then the sides but it's not too tight anywhere. I get evaporation rings around the top holes in the tub. Temps have been slightly lower than I'd like but that doesn't explain the first grow. Bad luck with genetics from the spore print? I made isolations of the most rhizomorphic growth to get to these cultures.



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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: jellyfish]
    #19096232 - 11/06/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Could it be possible that your cleaning supplies are causing mutations?

Could your sub be too wet?


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Invisiblejellyfish


Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19096455 - 11/06/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I went pretty easy on water this time. Used less water then called for for the coir brick and then added dry verm. It was kind of like prepared rye grain in that it didn't look or feel too wet but it was hydrated. Cleaning supplies would be rubbing alcohol or bleach I use lysol like once a month. There's a possibility they've been exposed to a tiny bit of pot or crank smoke but the door is always closed. Maybe stale air? It's a very small tub in a space that could probably hold 20 tubs the same size.


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OfflinebEelzeBosS
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: jellyfish]
    #19096568 - 11/06/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Stale air is very bad. I grow in a big 10' x 8' closet, and the air in there would even get too stale so I installed a bathroom exhaust fan in the ceiling and my grows have noticeably benefited.

I understand its probably not what you want to do since you're growing in a closet but if you can try to leave the door open as much as possible.


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Invisiblejellyfish


Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: bEelzeBosS]
    #19101674 - 11/07/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Alright I'll leave the door open. I feel like I'm so close. Pasteruization, colonization, inoculation, agar transfers all go so well. Since I built a flow hood I've had maybe 1% contamination. But fruiting for whatever reason has been so bad.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: jellyfish]
    #19101809 - 11/07/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Did you ask the person you got the print from how likely it was that you got a print from a mutant?


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Invisiblejellyfish


Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19101941 - 11/07/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No I didn't think to. I shall.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19102082 - 11/07/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Did you ask the person you got the print from how likely it was that you got a print from a mutant?



Spores from mutants do not have a higher chance of mutating.

If you have proof of this I would love to see it.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: jellyfish]
    #19102103 - 11/07/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm aware you have a bulk substrate and these posts are talking about cakes, but the logic may still apply if you have a highly nutritious substrate.

A super high spawn ratio may encourage the propensity for mutants.

I don't know if it's your problem, but thought I'd shoot it your way.

Could be genetics, but I don't think MS from a mutant greatly increases the potential for growing more mutants.

However, if you have a culture that produces mutants and you keep using it, you will keep growing mutants.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15503706#15503706
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

So I have to ask, does anyone believe that mutants are a result of genetics, or environmental conditions?



Mostly genetics with cubensis, but an over-rich substrate is implicated in mutants with some species, such as shiitake.


Quote:

And also, do you think a print from a mutant mushroom would be more likely to yield mutants?





Not necessarily.  A print has billions of spores, each with a unique DNA.  A clone from mutants has a high probability of producing more mutants.
RR




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15829600#15829600
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Two points.

1.  Closets are horrible places to grow.  Fresh air is far more important than humidity, as is correct temperature.  Humidity is easy to maintain by simply misting more.

2.  The biggest cause of mutants is failure to wait at least a week after full colonization before birthing the cakes.  BRF cakes are too nutritious, thus they're prone to mutants much more than bulk substrates.  By waiting the consolidation week, you allow the mycelium to digest more of the substrate, reducing the potential for mutants.
RR




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15908400#15908400
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
<They're mutant blobs and extremely common on brf cakes during first flush because they're so nutritious.  They also appear on bulk substrates if one fails to wait at least a few days after full colonization before exposing to fruiting conditions.  It's best to wait a week, or even two weeks after full colonization before exposing to fruiting conditions.
RR




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15387571#15387571
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The most common cause of that is failure to wait at least a week after full colonization before removing from the jars and introducing to fruiting conditions.
RR




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Invisiblejellyfish


Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19102618 - 11/07/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well I do have a lot of rye compared to substrate (high spawn ratio?). And I didn't consolidate, like I said I followed Franks tek and he fruits right at 100% colonization. Maybe it's because there's so much sweet sweet rye.

edit: I know rye is pretty nutritious but now that I think about it, most of the jars that went in had been fully colonized at least a week.


Edited by jellyfish (11/07/13 09:20 PM)


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19103408 - 11/07/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
Did you ask the person you got the print from how likely it was that you got a print from a mutant?



Spores from mutants do not have a higher chance of mutating.

If you have proof of this I would love to see it.




Spores from mutants do not usually have a higher chance of mutating, but of course mutations to shaping proteins and other parts of the genome directly related to replication, transcription or translation (rather than general cell upkeep) can obviously adversely affect mutation rates.  Additionally, melanin partially prevents the creation of thymine dimers in mushrooms as well as in animals, so albinism and leucism can both cause an increase in mutation in environments with a non-negligible amount of UV light. 

I don't think that's what you mean, though.  I think you mean to tell me that having fucked up-looking parents doesn't necessarily mean an increased rate of fucked-up looking progeny.  Sometimes that's true, when environmental factors causes deformities of the fungus, but that's not what a mutation is. Mutations are differences from the wild type phenotype or the normal genotype of a species, so necessarily a mutant is an organism that differs from the wild type on a genetic level.  By definition, it's not a mutant unless the same behavior can be observed in either a clone or filial generations.


Edited by Psilicon (11/07/13 11:25 PM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19103470 - 11/07/13 11:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I don't think that's what you mean, though.  I think you mean to tell me that having fucked up-looking parents doesn't necessarily mean an increased rate of fucked-up looking progeny.



Yes, that is what I mean, lol.


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InvisibleMUSH HEAD420
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19103491 - 11/07/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Your FAE holes look a little small to me...the diameter of your FAE holes should be 3".


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19103542 - 11/07/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
Your FAE holes look a little small to me...the diameter of your FAE holes should be 3".




While I'm not arguing against 3" holes on monotubs I think 1.5 - 2 inches is pretty standard and people get good results with that.

Edit: Here's TL's 'one flush wonder' monotub where he advocates one inch holes https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14507008


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Edited by elasticaltiger (11/07/13 11:44 PM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19103557 - 11/07/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
Your FAE holes look a little small to me...the diameter of your FAE holes should be 3".



Wow, more shitty/unresearched advice.....

I do not know of one other person who uses 3" holes in a monotub....

Usual size is between 1 and 2 inches....mine are all 1-1/4".....

Please top giving advice....you are not helping anyone.


Edited by PussyFart (11/07/13 11:54 PM)


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InvisibleMUSH HEAD420
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19103558 - 11/07/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

just makes no sense to me in the first place that we use like 8 holes filled with polyfill for monotubs and with sgfc we use like 10x that many holes uncovered and fan.

I know we use polyfill on monotubs because it is more likely to contam, but the difference in the amount of FAE seems substantial to me.

Can somebody clear this up for me?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19103564 - 11/07/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
I know we use polyfill on monotubs because it is more likely to contam



You know very little my friend....fully colonize substrates are contam resistant.

The polyfil in monotubs is not meant to be any type of filter.....it regulates FAE and humidity.

Please stop talking about stuff you obviously do not understand.....no offense, but correcting you is becoming a full time job.


Edited by PussyFart (11/07/13 11:56 PM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19103574 - 11/08/13 12:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That was kind of harsh...sorry buddy....Ill stop....just please use the search function before posting...it really does help.

Sorry again.


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InvisibleMUSH HEAD420
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19103578 - 11/08/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I guess that we can get away with more FAE in SGFC because we constantly re-introduce moisture through misting.

BTW your tub is not fully colonized after birthing therefore at risk to contamination, maybe you should think before insulting my opinion.


Edited by MUSH HEAD420 (11/08/13 12:03 AM)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Why does my grow suck? [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
    #19103583 - 11/08/13 12:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MUSH HEAD420 said:
I guess that we can get away with more FAE in SGFC because we constantly re-introduce moisture through misting.



More FAE means more evaporation, which means more moisture in the air(humidity).

As heat and humidity rise out the top holes, air is pulled up thru the bottom holes and up thru the perlite.

This, as well as evaporation(from water we misted) humidify the SGFC.


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