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Offlinegeneralsherman55
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a question on mushroom language and latin names
    #19094809 - 11/06/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

As mentioned earlier I recently got involved with the my local mycological societies.  I was really taken back by their ability to identify extremely quickly via the latin name versus the common names that I am more accustomed to.

i say fungi as "fun•guy" and they say "fun•ji"
this is one very minor example in a laundry list of vocab.

and even the latin names I used frequently and say confidently, they pronounced them vastly differently. they way they said psilocybin and the way i say it made them sound like two completely different words.

then when i was on a hunt with my mushroom guru we were discussing the difference in the language that we use.  we both agreed that often we dont even pronounce some of the latin names, or may not have even ever attempted to say them out loud in fear of mispronunciation and simply butchering the word. 

now i know the trusted identifiers on here are really quick to post the latin name, but i am curious as to how many of you get the chance to speak about mushrooms with other mushroom folk outside of these forums? or are you like me and yes you may know some latin names, but only in writing?

Im wondering if the mycology societies have something that is lacking hear through the audible discussion of mushrooms versus just a textual one.  what are your thoughts or experiences with this phenomena?  Do those of you that have a strong command of the latin names ever find yourself using them aloud in conversation with your mushroom peers? 

Id really like to start a discussion along these lines...


an add-on:

i guess the analogy i would use for what I'm trying to get it can be seen in the film crouching tiger hidden dragon. the old lady assassin is a murdering machine, because she stole a book that had pictorials in it demonstrating the martial art technique that allowed her to be such a killing force. the girl she trained was literate and was able to not only learn from the pictures but get further detail from the text, information the old lady was unable to learn because she was illiterate.  the girl then grows to suprass her teacher in skill and technique because she gains more detail through the descriptions surrounding the pictures in the text.

I want to know if this community is missing out on a key part of mycology by not being immersed in that full body of knowledge and the full use of the language.


--------------------


Edited by generalsherman55 (11/07/13 07:23 AM)


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OfflineHarryL
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19094842 - 11/06/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Problem with common names, is they can be different in different locations. They also are used a bit more generally.... Shaggy parasol, honey mushroom, boletes... All represent several species...

So the scientific name (ie Latin name) can be used where ever that mushroom is found, even different countries.  The only problem with scientific names are they change when the taxonomy changes for that mushroom.... And with DNA being used to determine genus, it happens.

I would not worry a ton about pronunciations... That in a part of every language.... Varies where you are...  Even common word like bury or theater.... And don't get me started with American vs English spelling and pronunciations!!!

Russula is a good example... Whatever way you say it... Most folks will know what you mean

I do wonder how most folks are pronouncing 'cyan'

See-en or Kia-en

Just saying....


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.


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Offlinelsms
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19094861 - 11/06/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I butcher the hell out of Latin personally. Doesn't bother me at all:rofl:

I keep trying to think of words in the English language that are pronounced differently in different areas, none are coming to mind.
But, people pronounce stuff differently


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You cannot rate yourself."
Or can you?


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19094869 - 11/06/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'll stumble right through the Latin like a toddler in deep sand.  It might sound funny coming out of my mouth but damned if I'll let that stop me from trying.

One of the joys of being a fool is I never have to worry about looking like a fool.

:awedance:


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄵🄾🄸🄻


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Offlinegeneralsherman55
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: HarryL]
    #19094878 - 11/06/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
Problem with common names, is they can be different in different locations. They also are used a bit more generally.... Shaggy parasol, honey mushroom, boletes... All represent several species...

So the scientific name (ie Latin name) can be used where ever that mushroom is found, even different countries.  The only problem with scientific names are they change when the taxonomy changes for that mushroom.... And with DNA being used to determine genus, it happens.

I would not worry a ton about pronunciations... That in a part of every language.... Varies where you are...  Even common word like bury or theater.... And don't get me started with American vs English spelling and pronunciations!!!

Russula is a good example... Whatever way you say it... Most folks will know what you mean

I do wonder how most folks are pronouncing 'cyan'

See-en or Kia-en

Just saying....





yeah at one of myco meetings, a professor was discussing his new book and how they renamed soooo many species based on dna analysis, and even ones whose morphology doesnt match the family names of the past. for instance there was a gilled mushroom belonging to the bolete family. the book is still meant to be used through identification of morphological features, but the names are vastly different.

i say cyan as "sigh•an•ess•ens"

the question is how do those that are self taught either through guides and via expert advice from trusted identifiers on shroomery handle the scientific names aloud versus those in the myco societies who get to use them on a person to person basis frequently.  im curious if they are able to learn the scientific names sooner because they are fully immersed in that language.  someone like me who was taught by someone who was self taught, i find myself daunted by the task of learning the scientific names


i guess the analogy i would use for what I'm trying to get it can be seen in the film crouching tiger hidden dragon. the old lady assassin is a murdering machine, because she stole a book that had pictorials in it demonstrating the martial art technique that allowed her to be such a killing force. the girl she trained was literate and was able to not only learn from the pictures but get further detail from the text, information the old lady was unable to learn because she was illiterate. 

I want to know if this community is missing out on a key part of mycology by not being immersed in that full body of knowledge and the full use of the language.


--------------------


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19094918 - 11/06/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Many words in the English language are borrowed or descended from Latin. So most people pronounce Latin words as if they are written in English, just because of the similarity on paper/screen. Modern Latin used in all science has it's specific rules, it's a complete, separate language. If you know any Romanic languages like Italian or French, Latin pronunciation should be perfectly clear and simple.


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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: HarryL]
    #19094943 - 11/06/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HarryL said:
Problem with common names, is they can be different in different locations. They also are used a bit more generally.... Shaggy parasol, honey mushroom, boletes... All represent several species...

So the scientific name (ie Latin name) can be used where ever that mushroom is found, even different countries.  The only problem with scientific names are they change when the taxonomy changes for that mushroom.... And with DNA being used to determine genus, it happens.

I would not worry a ton about pronunciations... That in a part of every language.... Varies where you are...  Even common word like bury or theater.... And don't get me started with American vs English spelling and pronunciations!!!

Russula is a good example... Whatever way you say it... Most folks will know what you mean

I do wonder how most folks are pronouncing 'cyan'

See-en or Kia-en

Just saying....




I say "sigh-anne"


--------------------
- Question # Everything -



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InvisibleJoust
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: rev0kadavur]
    #19094958 - 11/06/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19094987 - 11/06/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We need to set up a thread with tutorials on correct pronunciations of the Latin names.

Its hard when you are teaching yourself and never or rarely hear any of these names spoken by a knowledgeable person... even some of the terminology..... and I have to say, most pronunciation keys don't help much... but I also know if I would just get myself to some myco meetings that would help ALOT.... but, then again, I try not to stress the importance of correctly saying things... as long as it gets across and communication is made then that's all that is really necessary... but it does suck when I have no idea how to communicate the name of something and it comes rolling out as a mess of sounds that end it "*&^%$#@.. some fucking shit mushroom"...

Either way, I think it would be a great thing to get better at... or at least more diverse in variations of ways to say names, that are versatile enough to get it across...

It would also be interesting to hear how some people are saying things, especially the abstract variations.... <<<Could be a good anthro- angle for your class yo!:grin:


--------------------
- Question # Everything -



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Offlinegeneralsherman55
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Registered: 09/05/13
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: rev0kadavur]
    #19094995 - 11/06/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rev0kadavur said:
We need to set up a thread with tutorials on correct pronunciations of the Latin names.

Its hard when you are teaching yourself and never or rarely hear any of these names spoken by a knowledgeable person... even some of the terminology..... and I have to say, most pronunciation keys don't help much... but I also know if I would just get myself to some myco meetings that would help ALOT.... but, then again, I try not to stress the importance of correctly saying things... as long as it gets across and communication is made then that's all that is really necessary... but it does suck when I have no idea how to communicate the name of something and it comes rolling out as a mess of sounds that end it "*&^%$#@.. some fucking shit mushroom"...

Either way, I think it would be a great thing to get better at... or at least more diverse in variations of ways to say names, that are versatile enough to get it across...

It would also be interesting to hear how some people are saying things, especially the abstract variations.... <<<Could be a good anthro- angle for your class yo!:grin:





lol. thus this thread :wink:

WE NEED TO HUNT SOOOOOOOOOOOON! UGH!


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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: Joust]
    #19095006 - 11/06/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Joust said:
Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol





Ah... noooooo....

Awesome link!
-but this totally ruins the way I have been saying things...

Ahggg.. I dont like the way Psilocybe is properly pronounced.. no no noooo.... lol

BTW, Tangich should do a complete series of this... really awesome stuff, perfect for this thread!


--------------------
- Question # Everything -



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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19095011 - 11/06/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

generalsherman55 said:

WE NEED TO HUNT SOOOOOOOOOOOON! UGH!




Rain is coming!!!!!


--------------------
- Question # Everything -



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Offlinegeneralsherman55
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Registered: 09/05/13
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: rev0kadavur]
    #19095044 - 11/06/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rev0kadavur said:
Quote:

generalsherman55 said:

WE NEED TO HUNT SOOOOOOOOOOOON! UGH!




Rain is coming!!!!!



Quote:

rev0kadavur said:
Quote:

Joust said:
Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol





Ah... noooooo....

Awesome link!
-but this totally ruins the way I have been saying things...

Ahggg.. I dont like the way Psilocybe is properly pronounced.. no no noooo.... lol


BTW, Tangich should do a complete series of this... really awesome stuff, perfect for this thread!





i knew that would get to you! :bathtub40lol:


--------------------


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Offlinecanid
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: lsms] * 1
    #19095182 - 11/06/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lsms said:
I butcher the hell out of Latin personally. Doesn't bother me at all:rofl:




Same here. What gets me about the pronunciation nazis, apart from the ludicrous nature of presuming to be correct about the pronunciation of a dead language is the inconsistency with which it is often applied anyway. All in or all out, I say, and I shake my fist while I say it :laugh:

Personally, I find it comfortable to pronounce foreign phonemes approximate to my natural language. I don't get hung up when speakers of other languages speak english with an accent, either.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55] * 1
    #19095205 - 11/06/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

generalsherman55 said:
i say fungi as "fun•guy" and they say "fun•ji"




That is a good example of the motive why most people who badly pronounce Latin names, pronounce them that way, because although your pronouncing a Latin word you're using English phonetics, in Latin for example if you have an E or an I after a G the G is read as J, always.


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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OnlineAnglerfishM
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: pouihi] * 1
    #19095363 - 11/06/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Funny discussion. :thumbup:

Being Norwegian, my native language for some reason complies well with the latin
pronunciation. But of course, when I'm on this site where both writing and reading
is done in English, I tend to anglify my impression of latin names.

Example:

Norwegian: Psilocybe = See-lo-see-bah,      Psilocybin = See-lo-see-been
English:        Psilocybe = Sill-oh-sybe              Psilocybin = Sill-oh-sybe-been

Norwegian:  Mycena = Mee-se-naah
English:        Mycena = My-scene-aah

...and on and on... :lol:


--------------------




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Offlinegeneralsherman55
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: Joust]
    #19095711 - 11/06/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Joust said:
Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol



Quote:

Joust said:
Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol





are these forays with myco society groups? or with friends? what?


--------------------


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InvisibleJoust
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19097210 - 11/06/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

generalsherman55 said:
Quote:

Joust said:
Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol



Quote:

Joust said:
Every foray i go on with anyone always involves laughing in some sort of way about latin. Many many examples of this.

palipurus"


but yeah i think the pronunciations for some of the species are here.
https://soundcloud.com/mayda-1/

also notice that there are links under the names of the mushrooms in the hunting faq.



also note that Tangich is the voice. lol





are these forays with myco society groups? or with friends? what?



friends.

I say sil ( as in silt) oss (loss) ugh (ugh?) bee (bee)


--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


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Offlinejet li
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: generalsherman55]
    #19097330 - 11/06/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I pronounce to myself in a whisper as I'm hunting.  Everything I come across I pronounce either what I know is the pronunciation of the species, or if I've never heard a species voiced, I will pretend I know how it's pronounced....most likely "butchering" it.  :p  I'm neither all in nor all out.


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Invisiblehappyfunguy
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Re: a question on mushroom language and latin names [Re: Joust]
    #19097433 - 11/06/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Joust said:
I say sil ( as in silt) oss (loss) ugh (ugh?) bee (bee)



I pronounce ugh as uh


Edited by happyfunguy (11/06/13 08:10 PM)


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