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Offlinehealing
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093748 - 11/06/13 02:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
No, its not.

Your speculation is actually the only unfounded one, the fact that you cannot see this is pretty hilarious.

Also, a spacecraft wouldn't even need to exceed FTL travel to travel the galaxy, as the experience of time relative to space approaching the speed of light would render that completely useless.

You would essentially not only be travelling through space at an accelerated rate, but time as well. So moving at or near the speed of light, what we would see taking as a year, the ones traveling at that speed would experience something like two weeks.




What was my speculation?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093751 - 11/06/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Its essentially not only space travel, but time travel as well.

Its pretty dumb for people to argue that we cannot travel the galaxy because FTL is impossible, when FTL would have little to do with it.

I'm pretty tired of seeing people argue that as the only reason against ETs travelling the galaxy and ourselves when it makes no sense, because near-lightspeed would suffice for such adventures just fine.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19093760 - 11/06/13 02:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Htx your ideas are familiar but your numbers are arbitrary.

"1% of 1% of 1%" etc.

And one year at near light speed being 2 weeks.

Both of course based loosely in reality but made up figures and assumptions don't prove aliens are visiting us in intergalactic crafts


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: healing]
    #19093763 - 11/06/13 02:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That ETs aren't nor haven't been studying earth.

Pretty baseless speculation.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx] * 2
    #19093768 - 11/06/13 02:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: NWlight]
    #19093769 - 11/06/13 02:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
Htx your ideas are familiar but your numbers are arbitrary.

"1% of 1% of 1%" etc.

And one year at near light speed being 2 weeks.

Both of course based loosely in reality but made up figures and assumptions don't prove aliens are visiting us in intergalactic crafts



I dont particularly feel like doing the math but you get the idea. No, they don't prove anything, but they provide a solid base for speculation.


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Edited by hTx (11/06/13 02:23 AM)


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093777 - 11/06/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
That ETs aren't nor haven't been studying earth.

Pretty baseless speculation.




I intentionally left the topic of extraterrestrial presences on or near our planet untouched. One thing I did imply on that topic was that most of the people in this thread don't know what they're talking about. To call the statements of another absurd is not necessarily to speculate upon the subject at hand.

If you do know what you're talking about, good for you. I don't care. But if you want to be able to teach people, you're going to have to learn to read.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: NWlight]
    #19093785 - 11/06/13 02:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim




The evidence is plenty, just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change anything.

I'll trust the experience of a few astronauts/pilots/my own experience whom have witnessed technologies not of this world as evidence enough.

All you naysayers only base for speculation that ETs haven't or couldn't be studying earth has been "but FTL travel is impossible...bleh bleh and all UFO phenomena can be explained away."

FTL travel is pretty irrelevant for traveling the galaxy. and not all UFO phenomena can be explained away.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, but these facts remain true. So why say such a thing with such confidence as ETs are definitely not visiting earth or that contact would likely never happen?

Seems close minded and ignorant.

:shrug:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: healing]
    #19093795 - 11/06/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

Viveka said:
Quote:

Based on my assumption that since there is a number higher than 299,792,458m/s and that, therefore, their might be the possibility that something can go as fast as even just 299,792,459m/s, is the line of reasoning that such an imaginary thing could exist useful to leading us to discovering something faster than the speed of light



No, it's not at all useful because it's not as if physicists just kind of picked a number and imagined that maybe light could go that fast but then found out that it couldn't or something whimsical like that. The determination on the speed of light was made after many observations of heavenly bodies that revealed the math by observation in a repeatable, testable way.

As far as we can test or observe, there is no way a classic object, such as an incarnate entity of physical substance that could "exist" in our "dimension", could travel faster than the observed speed of light. Even if we discovered down the road that some spooky particle at a distance might, according to certain maths, be able to "travel faster than the speed of light" it wouldn't change much as far as the likelihood of non-terrestrial lifeforms traveling here in the flesh so to speak. If anything there are probably other forms of life coexisting in the same time "time-space" but in different slices of the spectrum that hold no information or substance for us. But that's just like, my opinion man.

The whole ET thing is fucking retarded. As if there isn't enough mystery surrounding us from every direction. No, we take that all for granted and imagine mysterious crafts taking interest in us instead. Given the vastness of the observable universe and the tendency of patterns to repeat in nature it would be absurd to think there isn't other life out there, sharing the same spectrum of matter as ours, that we could potentially meet face to face. But it is far more likely that we'll never cross paths with it. The fact that there is an absolute dearth of evidence(other than numerous accounts of people seeing lights in the sky, or claiming to experience other weird phenomenon, which have other explanations) only supports the statistical likelihood of no 'Contact'.




Finally, someone I can agree with.

I hope that you will see, if you were inclined, that I have steered clear of the possibility of contact for the exact absurdity you cite.

One thing I must add here. Technology grows at an exponential rate. As we near the asymptote, the impossibility of observing those different slices of the spectrum, if they do exist, could quite possibly be discarded along with our current paradigm.



...I can read.


--------------------
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Light up the darkness.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093797 - 11/06/13 02:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim




The evidence is plenty, just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change anything.





Quote:

hTx said:
I dont particularly feel like doing the math but you get the idea. No, they don't prove anything, but they provide a solid base for speculation.




So you have evidence and are making speculations based off of that information? You should tell us what information you have and use that information to prove your speculations. Otherwise the burden of proof still lies on you. We're all waiting.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093798 - 11/06/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim




The evidence is plenty, just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change anything.

I'll trust the experience of a few astronauts/pilots/my own experience whom have witnessed technologies not of this world as evidence enough.

All you naysayers only base for speculation that ETs haven't or couldn't be studying earth has been "but FTL travel is impossible...bleh bleh and all UFO phenomena can be explained away."

FTL travel is pretty irrelevant for traveling the galaxy. and not all UFO phenomena can be explained away.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, but these facts remain true. So why say such a thing with such confidence as ETs are definitely not visiting earth or that contact would likely never happen?

Seems close minded and ignorant.

:shrug:



The only basis you have is anecdotal at best
and the most likely answer is that it is unlikely, but possible


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093800 - 11/06/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

Viveka said:
Quote:

Based on my assumption that since there is a number higher than 299,792,458m/s and that, therefore, their might be the possibility that something can go as fast as even just 299,792,459m/s, is the line of reasoning that such an imaginary thing could exist useful to leading us to discovering something faster than the speed of light



No, it's not at all useful because it's not as if physicists just kind of picked a number and imagined that maybe light could go that fast but then found out that it couldn't or something whimsical like that. The determination on the speed of light was made after many observations of heavenly bodies that revealed the math by observation in a repeatable, testable way.

As far as we can test or observe, there is no way a classic object, such as an incarnate entity of physical substance that could "exist" in our "dimension", could travel faster than the observed speed of light. Even if we discovered down the road that some spooky particle at a distance might, according to certain maths, be able to "travel faster than the speed of light" it wouldn't change much as far as the likelihood of non-terrestrial lifeforms traveling here in the flesh so to speak. If anything there are probably other forms of life coexisting in the same time "time-space" but in different slices of the spectrum that hold no information or substance for us. But that's just like, my opinion man.

The whole ET thing is fucking retarded. As if there isn't enough mystery surrounding us from every direction. No, we take that all for granted and imagine mysterious crafts taking interest in us instead. Given the vastness of the observable universe and the tendency of patterns to repeat in nature it would be absurd to think there isn't other life out there, sharing the same spectrum of matter as ours, that we could potentially meet face to face. But it is far more likely that we'll never cross paths with it. The fact that there is an absolute dearth of evidence(other than numerous accounts of people seeing lights in the sky, or claiming to experience other weird phenomenon, which have other explanations) only supports the statistical likelihood of no 'Contact'.




Finally, someone I can agree with.

I hope that you will see, if you were inclined, that I have steered clear of the possibility of contact for the exact absurdity you cite.

One thing I must add here. Technology grows at an exponential rate. As we near the asymptote, the impossibility of observing those different slices of the spectrum, if they do exist, could quite possibly be discarded along with our current paradigm.



...I can read.




I have yet to see the speculation you find so laughable.


--------------------
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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19093809 - 11/06/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

hTx said:
No, its not.

Your speculation is actually the only unfounded one, the fact that you cannot see this is pretty hilarious.

Also, a spacecraft wouldn't even need to exceed FTL travel to travel the galaxy, as the experience of time relative to space approaching the speed of light would render that completely useless.

You would essentially not only be travelling through space at an accelerated rate, but time as well. So moving at or near the speed of light, what we would see taking as a year, the ones traveling at that speed would experience something like two weeks.



Which would make them useless to their starting societies



Information is not limited by the speed of light, and can be transferred instantaneously through things such as 'spooky action at a distance', theoretically speaking.

http://www.livescience.com/27920-quantum-action-faster-than-light.html


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19093815 - 11/06/13 02:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim




The evidence is plenty, just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change anything.

I'll trust the experience of a few astronauts/pilots/my own experience whom have witnessed technologies not of this world as evidence enough.

All you naysayers only base for speculation that ETs haven't or couldn't be studying earth has been "but FTL travel is impossible...bleh bleh and all UFO phenomena can be explained away."

FTL travel is pretty irrelevant for traveling the galaxy. and not all UFO phenomena can be explained away.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, but these facts remain true. So why say such a thing with such confidence as ETs are definitely not visiting earth or that contact would likely never happen?

Seems close minded and ignorant.

:shrug:



The only basis you have is anecdotal at best
and the most likely answer is that it is unlikely, but possible



I say not only possible, but likely.  We once thought we were the only planet in the universe, only to find we had 8 more in our solar system alone. Than we thought that these were the only ones in space, and that any more would be 'unlikely, but possible.'

Now we observe on average one planet for every star.

I think life in the universe is going to be much the same story.


--------------------
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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: healing]
    #19093821 - 11/06/13 02:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

Viveka said:
Quote:

Based on my assumption that since there is a number higher than 299,792,458m/s and that, therefore, their might be the possibility that something can go as fast as even just 299,792,459m/s, is the line of reasoning that such an imaginary thing could exist useful to leading us to discovering something faster than the speed of light



No, it's not at all useful because it's not as if physicists just kind of picked a number and imagined that maybe light could go that fast but then found out that it couldn't or something whimsical like that. The determination on the speed of light was made after many observations of heavenly bodies that revealed the math by observation in a repeatable, testable way.

As far as we can test or observe, there is no way a classic object, such as an incarnate entity of physical substance that could "exist" in our "dimension", could travel faster than the observed speed of light. Even if we discovered down the road that some spooky particle at a distance might, according to certain maths, be able to "travel faster than the speed of light" it wouldn't change much as far as the likelihood of non-terrestrial lifeforms traveling here in the flesh so to speak. If anything there are probably other forms of life coexisting in the same time "time-space" but in different slices of the spectrum that hold no information or substance for us. But that's just like, my opinion man.

The whole ET thing is fucking retarded. As if there isn't enough mystery surrounding us from every direction. No, we take that all for granted and imagine mysterious crafts taking interest in us instead. Given the vastness of the observable universe and the tendency of patterns to repeat in nature it would be absurd to think there isn't other life out there, sharing the same spectrum of matter as ours, that we could potentially meet face to face. But it is far more likely that we'll never cross paths with it. The fact that there is an absolute dearth of evidence(other than numerous accounts of people seeing lights in the sky, or claiming to experience other weird phenomenon, which have other explanations) only supports the statistical likelihood of no 'Contact'.




Finally, someone I can agree with.

I hope that you will see, if you were inclined, that I have steered clear of the possibility of contact for the exact absurdity you cite.

One thing I must add here. Technology grows at an exponential rate. As we near the asymptote, the impossibility of observing those different slices of the spectrum, if they do exist, could quite possibly be discarded along with our current paradigm.



...I can read.




I have yet to see the speculation you find so laughable.




I have steered clear of the possibility of contact for the exact absurdity you cite. Is this not speculation? I could be misinterpreting you, so correct me if I'm wrong..

But denying is still speculation.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093822 - 11/06/13 02:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Although I do believe that somewhere else in our universe there has to be intelligent life, I simply find it hard to believe there are so many UFO sightings and not one government in the world has made such a disclosure.


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OfflineConstantine
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: healing] * 2
    #19093837 - 11/06/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim




The evidence is plenty, just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change anything.





Quote:

hTx said:
I dont particularly feel like doing the math but you get the idea. No, they don't prove anything, but they provide a solid base for speculation.




So you have evidence and are making speculations based off of that information? You should tell us what information you have and use that information to prove your speculations. Otherwise the burden of proof still lies on you. We're all waiting.




Still waiting  :waitingpatiently:

Just because you want to believe doesn't make it real.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093839 - 11/06/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

Viveka said:
Quote:

Based on my assumption that since there is a number higher than 299,792,458m/s and that, therefore, their might be the possibility that something can go as fast as even just 299,792,459m/s, is the line of reasoning that such an imaginary thing could exist useful to leading us to discovering something faster than the speed of light



No, it's not at all useful because it's not as if physicists just kind of picked a number and imagined that maybe light could go that fast but then found out that it couldn't or something whimsical like that. The determination on the speed of light was made after many observations of heavenly bodies that revealed the math by observation in a repeatable, testable way.

As far as we can test or observe, there is no way a classic object, such as an incarnate entity of physical substance that could "exist" in our "dimension", could travel faster than the observed speed of light. Even if we discovered down the road that some spooky particle at a distance might, according to certain maths, be able to "travel faster than the speed of light" it wouldn't change much as far as the likelihood of non-terrestrial lifeforms traveling here in the flesh so to speak. If anything there are probably other forms of life coexisting in the same time "time-space" but in different slices of the spectrum that hold no information or substance for us. But that's just like, my opinion man.

The whole ET thing is fucking retarded. As if there isn't enough mystery surrounding us from every direction. No, we take that all for granted and imagine mysterious crafts taking interest in us instead. Given the vastness of the observable universe and the tendency of patterns to repeat in nature it would be absurd to think there isn't other life out there, sharing the same spectrum of matter as ours, that we could potentially meet face to face. But it is far more likely that we'll never cross paths with it. The fact that there is an absolute dearth of evidence(other than numerous accounts of people seeing lights in the sky, or claiming to experience other weird phenomenon, which have other explanations) only supports the statistical likelihood of no 'Contact'.




Finally, someone I can agree with.

I hope that you will see, if you were inclined, that I have steered clear of the possibility of contact for the exact absurdity you cite.

One thing I must add here. Technology grows at an exponential rate. As we near the asymptote, the impossibility of observing those different slices of the spectrum, if they do exist, could quite possibly be discarded along with our current paradigm.



...I can read.




I have yet to see the speculation you find so laughable.




I have steered clear of the possibility of contact for the exact absurdity you cite. Is this not speculation? I could be misinterpreting you, so correct me if I'm wrong..

But denying is still speculation.




Again, you need to read more carefully.

Quote:

Viveka said:
Given the vastness of the observable universe and the tendency of patterns to repeat in nature it would be absurd to think there isn't other life out there, sharing the same spectrum of matter as ours, that we could potentially meet face to face.{/quote]


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: healing]
    #19093857 - 11/06/13 02:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
The lack of evidence for the contrary does not prove the position.

Burden of proof lies with the one making a claim




The evidence is plenty, just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change anything.





Quote:

hTx said:
I dont particularly feel like doing the math but you get the idea. No, they don't prove anything, but they provide a solid base for speculation.




So you have evidence and are making speculations based off of that information? You should tell us what information you have and use that information to prove your speculations. Otherwise the burden of proof still lies on you. We're all waiting.



Radar evidence, astronaut/pilot/military personal accounts, and millions of unexplained sightings. Including mass sightings, such as the miracle at Fatima. Ancient sumerian texts, in which they show an understanding about planets/atmospheres..things they could not have possibly have known after barely inventing the wheel.

And that mathematically it is not impossible for a spacecraft to reach earth from several light years away within a reasonable time..that there are (based on mathematics) millions of habitable planets, which likely means we aren't alone. Just us being here on earth mathematically speaking means we are not alone.

This provides plenty base for speculation. Just as your 'lack of evidence' provides base for speculation.

Why is the burden of proof on me? Where is your proof that ET flying around in a UFO around earth is impossible? Don't say unlikely, because in a universe so vast, unlikely means certainly, imo.

So far the only grounds you have for speculation that ET flying around in a UFO around earth is impossible was that FTL is impossible. I showed that this is irrelevant. Next?

Why is it so impossible? Give me one good reason to drop this and I will, but I bet you can't. 'Lack of evidence' isn't any evidence to the contrary.

Alls im saying is stay open minded. When I hear people say things like "The whole ET thing is retarded." It just kind of makes you look like a retard, imo.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Experiences with non-terrestrial craft? [Re: hTx]
    #19093870 - 11/06/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Even in a court of law, things such as eye-witness accounts are taken with much value.

So why claim that eye-witness accounts of several high ranking military/political leaders isn't evidence?

And to those thinking that since FTL travel isn't possible as like the holy grail to explain away ET phenomena I proved you all wrong by showing FTL travel as irrelevant in intergalactic travel.

So provide some more evidence to the contrary, kill the possibility if you can.

Because you cannot, and those thinking that they can are completely misinformed. We know nothing.

So I ask those of you saying that ETs visiting earth as highly unlikely or impossible, provide some evidence proving this statement.


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