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OfflineDropDemSh1tz
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Air Circulation in a 2X Sized Martha Shelving Setup?
    #19067687 - 11/01/13 01:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sup Kiddies.
Quick question. I am running a steel 24X60" shelving unit, off a bulk humidifier with large tubs. The humidifier is pretty big, has a 5 disc sonic w/ a 250 CFM fan, routed to each of the top 3 levels.

I'm having this issue of humidity and temperature stratification due to the close quarters nature of my set up. I'm looking from ideas from this wonderful community on where a fan should be placed in order to create a circular air motion so that the temperature and humidity remain fairly even throughout the chamber.

Have several, ranging from high velocity computer fans, to normal case fans, to whatever else if just go buy it, also have several on/off short timers.


Here are a few pics, and a 3d model of the space. Each tub is 19.5X27.5, there are two trays per shelve, which leaves some room on either side, as well as some on front and back.

Different configurations I've considering, anyone w/ some suggestions?

Push the two trays into the middle, have the fan on the far side (door, also the dry side), pushing down to create a circular airpath.

Open up the middle of the trays, have a fan on the bottom, pushing air up into the gap.

Does it make more sense to have a single high output jet on the top level to just churn air that way?'

Other suggestions?







Edited by DropDemSh1tz (11/02/13 10:12 PM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: DropDemSh1tz]
    #19068818 - 11/01/13 08:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Having a large FC in a tight space is a recipe for failure. I'm just giving my honest opinion.

Just circulating the air is not enough. The old air needs to be replace with fresh air...FAE.

You really need to be able to get fresh air in the FC.

It takes a lot of moisture to keep the RH high in a FC that size. If you are getting proper FAE, then a lot of that moisture is going to be vented right in to the closet space. There is a good chance for growing mold on the walls.

Closets and stealth are not good friends with mushroom cultivation.

But, to answer your question on stratification, you can pipe in the humidity at each level. Then with proper FAE, you should have pretty even RH.

Leave the bottom open and leave some opening at the top. Ditch the fans. You can install those self-adhesive zippers at the top to control air flow.

Some people put a coolmist at the bottom and a ultrasonic at the top.

My other opinion is that greenhouses/marthas are finicky and hard to get dialed in, and high maintenance, especially large ones like yours. Your best chance of success with these is to have them in the open.

You seem like a nice person and I hate to rain on your parade, but your set up is going to be more complicated than you think. I suggest either monotubs for bulk growing, or SGFC for cakes. These also need to be in the open.

Good luck on your endeavor.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19068915 - 11/01/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19069027 - 11/01/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

we see setups like this alot.
but its rare to see a sustained grow in such setups.
the forums are littered with this type of thing, wich survive one grow cycle, then contam out.

im waiting to see if this thread updates,
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18888592/page/1
im not holding my breath.

theres a thread on another forum, where one dude is honest enough, to show how he wiped out a bedroom with several marthas ,
and several hundred pounds of trich turd subs.
the thread looked cool at first, and ,progressed into bio disaster.
most arent so honest, they post till it trichs, then vanish.
( some even pop up later, knowing thier folly, and then repeat their errors, by advising others....thru ignorance, or passive aggressive frustration!)

my point is,
that area with small amount of sub, might not be too bad for air,
but, if ya pack that area full , youll have FAE issues.

problem with this type of thing, eventually they contam.
one trichy container, and the whole place is infected.

any scale grow MUST have a decontamination plan,
thats tangible and reliable and effective.

these types of setups can work,
but , what most likely, is a part grow, a trich outburst, and the inability to decontam the space , thus making future grows, difficult at best.

of note, we dont use humidifiers,
we bottom water.
once a humidifier contams, there is no remedy beyond wishful hope.


personally , i would not do bulks in a chamber like that.
id do violet tek, bottom water, and dramtically increase FAE.
further more, id paint the whole room 100% , and switch to plastic shelves.........
metal shelves like that, once contamed, must be soaked in bleach,
wich rusts them out FAST.

the wise grower, prepares for the clean up.
there will be one.......


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Edited by anne halonium (11/01/13 10:07 AM)


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OfflineDropDemSh1tz
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19077072 - 11/02/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I currently have humidity pumped into each layer, the issue is mostly temperature stratification. So, if I can get some decent circulation in there to move everything around it should be fine. I presented 3 possibilities, I'm curious if anyone else had any further ideas or experience with any of that.

You will have to excuse my indignation, the solution here is not, break down the system and abandon hope for some other tek, be it the violet tek, a shotgun tubs, or whatever...

I did read it though out of curiosity, looks time consuming and inefficient spacewise. These tubs are like 20-25 pounds of substrate each. I would have to do so many of those tiny things. And the situation remains, temperature stratification in the chamber.

Having the chamber in the open is not an option. But opening the door is, so FAE is not an issue. It stays open around 6 hours a day. Within that time there are several air exchanges.

This isn't the first time this closet has been used, it yields big currently, w/o much issue of contamination. I routinely get 2-3 flushes before trich hits a tub, then its removed, and the rest do their thing until they are tired. Usually around 1-2 pounds per tub for a full cycle... I'm just trying to iron out some inconsistencies at this point. The system is pretty hands off otherwise.

Also thanks for the mold concern, I see what you are saying w/ closed spaces, but it hasn't been an issue for going on 2 years now. I suspect whoever turned their house into a mold bomb was smoking too much weed, and was so lazy they refused to remove the contaminated tubs. I use a respirator when removing, and clean my space w/ lysol after each grow, the floor is just a tarp.


Edited by DropDemSh1tz (11/02/13 10:30 PM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: DropDemSh1tz]
    #19079524 - 11/03/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i suspect , your over confident with this design,
the idea ya flush or 2 and then trich
indicates the place is already contamed.

contrary to popular belief,
all grows do not end in trich.

good luck though.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19079641 - 11/03/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
contrary to popular belief,
all grows do not end in trich.



I agree with this. I disagree that you need to paint your house, rip out your carpets etc. Maybe there are some extreme cases where dudes kept large trich monster subs around, jizzin spores all over the place, which ain't gonna help at all but, a decent wipedown with diluted bleach is more than enough for cleaning your walls etc. IME a fully colonized sub is pretty contam resistant, and I often see 5 or more flushes from my tubs. My house is a filthy old place, I got 2 dogs running around, etc. Most people who see the mean green before the 2nd flush, were working with dirty spawn IMO. Get your sterile technique down where it counts, learn to properly use a SAB, and you don't need to worry about the rest :shrug:

OP I don't know squat about marthas but, that tight ass setup looks to me like trouble and I'm not just talking about FAE issues. I'd be worried about all that humidity and having nasty molds growing in your walls n shit. If it was me, and I was just growing cubes, I'd fill that space up with monos and be done with it. Easy and less issues.

Good luck getting it sorted out tho. If you do, please post pics :thumbup: the masses love to see shit like that (at least I do :wink:)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19081265 - 11/03/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

anne halonium said:
contrary to popular belief,
all grows do not end in trich.



I agree with this. I disagree that you need to paint your house, rip out your carpets etc. Maybe there are some extreme cases where dudes kept large trich monster subs around, jizzin spores all over the place, which ain't gonna help at all but, a decent wipedown with diluted bleach is more than enough for cleaning your walls etc. IME a :wink:)





i basically agree with your premis also pasty.
hes just is out for an LB of 2  really, so about anything goes.

the room is capable, of serious scale though,
if he has the staging area for supply and handling,
and, the envrio systems for air.

i suggest, to suddenly scale up to room capacity,
with traditional bulk grows, "as is"........
would be problematic.

ive done kiddie pools in bedrooms.
the air on massive sub volumes, is unreal.
that room , to scale, is gonna need serious air fer sure.



--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (11/03/13 06:01 PM)


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OfflineDropDemSh1tz
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19085113 - 11/04/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ah delicious, some informed discussion.

Per your suggestion, looks like I am going to be keeping the door open when I am home. I would leave it open constantly, but I'm not comfortable w/ that exposure when I'm not around to control it. I have the lights turn on like 2 hours before I get home from work so it wont heat up during the daytime unnecessarily.

I ended up taking some temp measurements last night and it seems like the stratification is not THAT bad, a couple of degrees between top and bottom. I have the lights going on at 4pm, off at 4am. With door closed, lights on, it was usually around 79 on top, and 75 on bottom after 3-4 hours. Last night i left the door open and in the morning it was around 70 on bottom and 74 on top. What do you think about that? I am just going to throw a small fan in the middle and shoot it up every 15 minutes to mix it all together.

It may be possible to rig a very thin inlet to the bottom of the door to suck in FAE to the humidifier. Sadly that's the most dirty air i could possibly suck up. I think an open door most of the day is probably more effective.


The humidifier is on for a good 5 minutes, probably 3 times an hour, there is some static pressure so I assume its probably 200 CFM going in. The unit is 70cubic feet. The amount of air in the room is probably 400 cubic feet. So they will just have to hold their breath a little bit.

Thats interesting what you say about trich. I'm sure there are different reasons for it each time with me. One being the occasional improperly pasteurized spawn or casing layers. I'm also sure there is a certain amount of acidification over time since I basically don't add anything but gypsum to the poo. 3-4 weeks of popping is fine for me though. I see green and remove. I would say about 50% end up dead that way. the other ones I just kick out once production slows down because I would rather be incubating more tubs in that space. After about the 3rd flush I start to wonder about potency anyway, though I do like those big honkers that come off it. I'm also pretty sure that dunking a tub that big probably has some life shortening effect since no matter what you do there is always some standing water in the bottom.

I bought a cheap temp controller recently and connected it to my steamer tub with the probe right in the middle of the bag of spawn. Worked great. Expecting these to live a long full life, until replaced by their more vigorous brethren.


I have a decent collapsible clean room, as well as a dryer that can do around 40 lb's at a go. Planning on posting pics up in a little while once I do a write up. I'm going to try to get more FAE in there. Don't want to suffocate my buddies...

Hmm, came for one thing, got another, thanks for the suggestions! I'm about 4 days into initiation so should be an update soon.


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OfflineDropDemSh1tz
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Re: Air/Humidity Circulation Techniques in a 2X Martha Shelving Setup? [Re: DropDemSh1tz]
    #19093416 - 11/06/13 12:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quick little update. Put a small computer cooling fan I had on the bottom shelf shooting up in the middle. Moved all bins to one side and spaced them out. Temperatures are within 1-2 degrees top and bottom now. I turned on the fan when the humi was on just to get an idea of what the air circulation looks like and its working perfectly, rides up top, mixes and then rolls back down again.

I did add a 100 CFM fan to shoot fresh air into the closet from the doorway. Goes off every 10 mins for 4 mins. Approximately 1 total room air exchange.

If you look on the bottom picture in OP, i am moving it along the left hand side. I haven't decided if it makes more sense to have it high, near the corner of the door, or low, near the bottom of the unit. It does pump a pretty good amount of air in. Ideas?

I also added a vent at the top to vent heat which seems to be working well because it vents the humidity a little and keeps the humidifier coming on.

Ended up looking up part # for my humi fan, and its actually 50 CFM. So it fills the chamber up in about 2 minutes w/ fresh air. It takes approximately 4 minutes for it to do the 2% RH from 89-91. So approximately 2 exchanges every burst, and it does that probably 3-4 times an hour. Also about half the time when the circulation fan goes on it triggers the humidifier to come on for another 3-4 minutes.

So I think finally I'm getting the fresh air necessary in there. That translates to between 6 and 8 FAE's minimally, perhaps a top end of 12. Unfortunately no data logger =P Curious though, looks like they are only 20 bucks.


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