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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19092455 - 11/05/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
This will work. And it has been done many times.

Search for "Crumble and Case"



Casing cakes does not increase yield....spawning to bulk does.

To increase yield you must increase moisture content and nutrients.

Casing does neither......Spawning to bulk does both....




Casing does increase moisture, assuming you do it with a moist, pasteurized casing material.  It's actually one of the defining characteristics of casing material.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092534 - 11/05/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

A casing layer helps retain moisture...it does not add it.

It's the exact same thing as rolling them in verm, then misting them.

So what really is there to gain?


Edited by PussyFart (11/05/13 09:07 PM)


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19092578 - 11/05/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No, it's not.  It's the exact same as coating a cake in a quarter of an inch of vermiculite hydrated to field capacity, because what you're doing is adding a quarter-inch layer which is hydrated to field capacity.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092588 - 11/05/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ive seen some pretty thick verm rolled cakes....


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19092594 - 11/05/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Once again, that's dry verm, which has less water in it than wet verm or wet peat or wet verm/peat or wet jiffy or wet anything that's wet because that means it has water in it, which means you're adding water.


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Offlinehgmstl
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092596 - 11/05/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

derp derp derp


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092610 - 11/05/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Do you not mist the cakes ever after rolling them in this dry verm?

Or does it stay dry forever?

You see, you also add water to cakes in a FC...so it's basically the same.

In fact, the misted verm on cakes gets wetter than field capacity sometimes....


Edited by PussyFart (11/05/13 09:20 PM)


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Invisiblerefried

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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: eMpire420]
    #19092617 - 11/05/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eMpire420 said:
One more thing. If I do quart jars for a WBS tek, would 2cc of spores be enough?





I'd take that 2cc and make a lc using extra light malt extract. This is what I've done and I now have 2 strong lc with good results.  I put about 3-4 cc of lc in my jars.  This is my 3rd grow and it's going well.  Don't forget to dunk your grains.


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Offlinehgmstl
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: refried]
    #19092623 - 11/05/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

refried said:
Quote:

eMpire420 said:
One more thing. If I do quart jars for a WBS tek, would 2cc of spores be enough?





I'd take that 2cc and make a lc using extra light malt extract. This is what I've done and I now have 2 strong lc with good results.  I put about 3-4 cc of lc in my jars.  This is my 3rd grow and it's going well.  Don't forget to dunk your grains.



or to make your life easier.
put 1 cc in a quart jar. grow it out then gtg it to 8-10 more quart jars.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19092652 - 11/05/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Do you not mist the cakes ever after rolling them in this dry verm?

Or does it stay dry forever?

You see, you also add water to cakes in a FC...so it's basically the same.

In fact, the misted verm on cakes gets wetter than field capacity sometimes....




So now you're arguing that when you add a layer of something that retains moisture, then add moisture, what you're not doing is adding moisture.

Got it.


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: eMpire420]
    #19092672 - 11/05/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

eMpire420 said:
Awesome. What's the difference between doing something like this and using other methods of bulk grows? I see probably a thousand different methods with all different types of grains. Is there's a benefit to some of the more complex ones?




For a typical monotub you would need 5 - 7 quarts of mushroom spawn.  I'm assuming you want to do brf cakes because you lack a pressure cooker.  If you have the cooker you SHOULD just do grains.  But if you want an 'easy' way to spawn to bulk you can use damien5050's coir tek (https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595) and replace the 5 - 7 quarts of grain spawn with 20 - 28 half pint jars of brf.

If the brf jars are what you're sticking with then I would imagine this would be the 'easiest' and cheapest way to spawn to a typical size monotub using cakes.

That's a lot of your free time to steam sterilize the jars though.  More room for error.  What if you only do 20 jars and 5 become contaminated?  You try to start over but now your other jars are two weeks ahead of the new ones and by the time the new ones finish colonizing the first set is already pinning invitro.  But then two of the jars in the second round stall out, etc etc.  A lot could go wrong. 

Hope to see what you grow soon!  Keep the positive attitude! :awesome:


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092679 - 11/05/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No, I am saying that breaking up cakes and adding a casing layer is no different than just fruiting dunked and rolled cakes whole.

You are not really adding any more moisture or nutrients by doing this.

Now when you spawn to bulk substrate, you are adding LOTS MORE moisture, and LOTS MORE nutrients.

So then there will be a noticeable difference in yield.

Rolling cakes in verm and then misting them is essentially casing them in verm.

It is the same thing as adding a casing layer that already has moisture in it.

Do I really need to go into this much detail for it to be understood?


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19092693 - 11/05/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
No, I am saying that breaking up cakes and adding a casing layer is no different than just fruiting dunked and rolled cakes whole.

You are not really adding any more moisture or nutrients by doing this.

Now when you spawn to bulk substrate, you are adding LOTS MORE moisture, and LOTS MORE nutrients.

So then there will be a noticeable difference in yield.

Rolling cakes in verm and then misting them is essentially casing them in verm.

It is the same thing as adding a casing layer that already has moisture in it.

Do I really need to go into this much detail for it to be understood?




You're going to need to go into much more than that if you want to convince me that a non-nutritive layer of hydrated material provides an insignificant amount of hydration. :rofl:


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092723 - 11/05/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
You're going to need to go into much more than that if you want to convince me that a non-nutritive layer of hydrated material provides an insignificant amount of hydration. :rofl:






I never said that. It works fine when we coat our cakes with it.

The moisture cakes get comes from a bottle.

The same bottle you use on your casing layer, once it dries up a little.(from field capacity.)

We mist our cakes to get the dry verm to field capacity.

It's the same shit.

I never said either one of them was insignificant....I specifically said it was the same shit, so why bother.


Edited by PussyFart (11/05/13 09:41 PM)


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OfflineRubestoad
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092735 - 11/05/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
No, I am saying that breaking up cakes and adding a casing layer is no different than just fruiting dunked and rolled cakes whole.

You are not really adding any more moisture or nutrients by doing this.

Now when you spawn to bulk substrate, you are adding LOTS MORE moisture, and LOTS MORE nutrients.

So then there will be a noticeable difference in yield.

Rolling cakes in verm and then misting them is essentially casing them in verm.

It is the same thing as adding a casing layer that already has moisture in it.

Do I really need to go into this much detail for it to be understood?




You're going to need to go into much more than that if you want to convince me that a non-nutritive layer of hydrated material provides an insignificant amount of hydration. :rofl:




Correct me plz...a non nutritive layer that is not being colonized adds no moisture to the sub but adds moisture to the micro climate at the sub.  Yeah?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Rubestoad]
    #19092754 - 11/05/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yea....but in this case, what it adds to rolled cakes is no different than what it adds to broken up cased cakes....moisture retention and a microclimate for pinning.


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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092768 - 11/05/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Adding a moist casing layer to crumbled cakes or rolling cakes and misting them only adds moisture to the surface and helps retain existing moisture.

To add moisture to the cakes, the moisture has to be added to the cake material, crumbled or not.

Crumbling and mixing with a field capacity substrate accomplishes this. A casing layer does not.

Cakes get dunked.

For best results, mix your cakes with a bulk substrate. Casing does not increase yields, unless you count rolling cakes.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19092837 - 11/05/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

van der griegen said:
You're going to need to go into much more than that if you want to convince me that a non-nutritive layer of hydrated material provides an insignificant amount of hydration. :rofl:



I never said that.




No?

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:

To increase yield you must increase moisture content and nutrients.

Casing does neither......Spawning to bulk does both....




Spitball, mycelium excels at sharing moisture.  Providing moisture to any place that touches mycelium, let alone one that's partially colonized by mycelium, results in the entire sub getting hydration.  This is the entire basis of mycorrhizal relationships, but also of misting, bottom watering, or any other scenario that provides moisture to a part of the organism but not all of it. 

:feelingblue:
caption:  David Tennant (with no additional moisture)


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092843 - 11/05/13 10:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:smbfacepalm:


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Would this work as a bulk grow? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092919 - 11/05/13 10:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
No, I am saying that breaking up cakes and adding a casing layer is no different than just fruiting dunked and rolled cakes whole.

You are not really adding any more moisture or nutrients by doing this.

Now when you spawn to bulk substrate, you are adding LOTS MORE moisture, and LOTS MORE nutrients.

So then there will be a noticeable difference in yield.

Rolling cakes in verm and then misting them is essentially casing them in verm.

It is the same thing as adding a casing layer that already has moisture in it.

Do I really need to go into this much detail for it to be understood?




You're going to need to go into much more than that if you want to convince me that a non-nutritive layer of hydrated material provides an insignificant amount of hydration. :rofl:






Three cakes cased with straight verm at field capacity.  Does that look like an increased yield to you?  Though they looked pretty like that looking like a forest they didn't yield substantially more or less than any of my individual cakes.

Casing cakes with field capacity verm doesn't increase yield.  It's the same as rolling in dry verm and misting.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


Edited by elasticaltiger (11/05/13 10:23 PM)


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