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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19092474 - 11/05/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i understood those last two post thanks


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19092491 - 11/05/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

TLDR


crack and meth are FUCKED!!!!


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Registered: 01/08/13
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: zZZz]
    #19093175 - 11/05/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
they're both bad, end of story!. it is better to say to stay away from them than to promote its use even if it is in moderation. they need to be pointing out it's neurotoxicity in the brain and side effects and shit rather than to debate and crack old myths, no pun intended.





Quote:

He notes that even rats, whose voracious consumption of cocaine in certain contrived conditions supposedly shows how powerfully addictive that drug is, tend to use it in moderation when they have other options, such as food, sex, or an interesting environment to explore.




hilarious  :lolsy:  but interesting :strokebeard: and possibly a clue to a cure for addiction, change in environment etc., etc..



Its because those experiments with rats made to  show the addictiveness of cocaine are done in such a way that the cocaine is the rats only possible source of pleasure.

They keep them in tiny chambers, alone with no where to go, no exercise, little to no food. The only thing they can do is drink water, or water with cocaine.

When you remove these terrible conditions rats actually use cocaine in moderation. In fact rats are known to prefer sweetened water to cocaine.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19093776 - 11/06/13 02:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Its because those experiments with rats made to  show the addictiveness of cocaine are done in such a way that the cocaine is the rats only possible source of pleasure.

They keep them in tiny chambers, alone with no where to go, no exercise, little to no food. The only thing they can do is drink water, or water with cocaine.





Sounds like the projects


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlineegodeathflux
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: Ythan]
    #19094245 - 11/06/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Will read the article in a minute. Going to have to disagree with the title first though. Lots of things I have heard are not wrong, I have a bugbear about absolute declarative statements. :mad2:

**Will actually read this thread now and add any salient opinions/facts, if I can muster any..  :cookiemonster:


--------------------

"Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies"




"Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"



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Offlineegodeathflux
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19094318 - 11/06/13 08:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

WOW. What a shock. I was entirely, 100% correct to be annoyed by the title! (nothing personal Ythan, we all love you mang..). I watched this being discussed by the author several weeks ago.

I thought the notion sounded familiar, the author, Carl Hart, was a guest on Real Time with Bill Maher back in September, it is actually well worth watching if you want a greater understanding of what Mr. Hart and the article are driving at. He is certainly not promoting or even really condoning the use of crack/meth/heroin (he mentioned all addictive substances during the show as I recall).

His point was as others have said, the societal view of addiction and related problems.

The episode aired on Sept. 27th if anyone wants to check it out. Widely available to download.

Great post CidneyIndole , I think you understood what he was talking about perfectly. (also dig your avatar, every time I see it I grin, enough :ass: kissing though..). :thumbup:


--------------------

"Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies"




"Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"



Edited by egodeathflux (11/06/13 08:29 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: HybridprX]
    #19094327 - 11/06/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HybridprX said:
lmfao!

Crack and Meth are not addictive?

People who pick up those habbits and the one this article describes are still fairly "habitual" and both drugs are as habit forming as smoking. Someone with enough resources will easily loose it all keeping up with it.

Every crack user I have ever encountered has said "Don't even bother trying it"

Myself was a cocaine user for a few years of my life and it started off with doing it every couple of months, and then every couple of weeks followed by every weekend.

happened that way with E too.... (still love good E/MDMA)

But yea, this article here Ythan is a picture perfect example of world goverments giving us a inch and all of us freedom fighters going for a mile. fighting for legalization of crack and meth is just dumb, clearly whoever wrote this article never grew up in the hood and seen what it does to those (10-20 percent) of people and the psychological effects on their families.




You think people will use it more when its legal and when theyre informed?

Compared to when uninformed and illegal?

Crack can be bought on almost every street if you want it, same with coke

But I dont want to try either, never wanted to


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Offlineaperson444
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Registered: 10/12/10
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #19094373 - 11/06/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Meth: Triple reuptake inhibition, monoamine release (mostly dopamine, but also the two others), direct agonism of dopamine receptors

Coke/Crack: Triple reuptake inhibition. Short duration compared to other triple reuptake inhibitors.

Both can downregulate receptors, but addiction itself has been portrayed the wrong way. We're ignoring the fact that there are indeed users of crack/meth who are not addicted to the drug. Addiction seems to be a disease of the poor and/or vulnerable (predisposition). It's not something that should be tackled with prohibition.

Making it legal but difficult (for minors especially) to obtain these drugs will help remove the problem from the streets/prisons and onto the desks of healthcare providers who can actually help people with a drug problem.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: aperson444] * 1
    #19094438 - 11/06/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Addiction is more likely due to social situation than the drug itself often

people smoke cigs as they are stressed, and cant stop due to stress, they need something
people often take drugs as a release from their lives

something in their lives is making them needing a break

if one drug is illegal, they just use the next one

make them all illegal doesnt matter, make them all legal doesnt matter

drugs are plenty cheap when illegal, and available everywhere

I can find weed in every city in my country easily, even out in the country on remote islands where I sometimes go...
and coke/heroin is even easier to find often, not that I would use those, I stopped using weed about a year ago too completely

information is the only rational thing in an information society...
and with information, a legalization of ones own body, do what you want as long as you dont hurt others

everything should be legal in ones own home...


Edited by lessismore (11/06/13 09:23 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #19094457 - 11/06/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so making unharmful drugs legal (weed,psychedelics i.e.) can actually be beneficial to society

in that people who have addictive personalities might seek those drugs

harm reduction

and there is great medical benefits too to each of those drugs... better than most pharma pills for treating stomach problems, headache, cancer pain, kidney stones pain, depression,...

mdma is very theurapeutic too...

fresh needles for the heroin addicts, and free addiction treatment to get back to work
thats information and harm reduction

the whole prohibition creates a social separation between drug users and non drug users
and gives drug users lots of problems, which makes them use even more drugs

in reality lots of people independent on social status have used drugs
many of the best musicians have used weed, some of the best scientists have used LSD, jimi hendrix used heroin, bob marley smoked so much he got dreadlocks

a full legalization is the only thing that makes sense...

everything was legal about 100 years ago (even morphine), and society worked well there..
no need to fight unneeded wars


Edited by lessismore (11/06/13 09:39 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: lessismore]
    #19094552 - 11/06/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

also half my country has smoked weed once in their lives, according to the statistics

why criminalize 50% of the country?

nonsense....  like most of our political system


the biggest danger of prohibition is people dieing from getting impure drugs/other drugs than expected, society/ER pays the bills every weekend, with the ambulances/911 being called all the time
the madness must end..


Edited by lessismore (11/06/13 09:43 AM)


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InvisibleFleshCap
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Registered: 11/10/08
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: lessismore]
    #19096068 - 11/06/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Some things work better in theory than in practice.

I flirted with meth a little back in the day. While it was just an "experimental" phase for me, many of my friends ruined their lives using crystal.


I'm not claiming to have the answer, but putting it out there for people to use freely will likely have bad results.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: FleshCap]
    #19096318 - 11/06/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

many of my friends ruined their lives using crystal





:whathesaid:


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Offlineabominmind
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Re: Everything You've Heard About Crack And Meth Is Wrong [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19215733 - 12/02/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

methamphetamine  (mthm-ft-mn, -mn)

1.  A way of life controlled by evil and built by God. One of many different substances that is or isn't methamphetamine that enabled certain people to learn about God who would of otherwise never even read a book. Used religiously for some yet condemned by people who have no care no knowledge and a list of lies derived from controlled people who used a-z said "Meth" many different kinds but were all referred to as one "Meth".
"Did you see that methamphetamine their is no way we will find that stuff having anything to do with Holy or philanthropy. 

2.  A race of people scrutinized, framed, enslaved, used, mocked, ridiculed, accused, stereotyped, undocumented, mocked, condemned, judged, needy, slandered, robbed, independent, mistreated, ignored, abused ,misunderstood, misdiagnosed, undefined, violated, attacked, pacified, sober, unjust, disgraced, unfound, dismissed,  obstructed, disturbed, scoffed, murdered, deceived, misguided, disciminated, ushered, incriminated, discredited, deprived, underfunded, incapacitated,limited, incarcerated, disabled, disqualified, singled, oppressed, opposed, diminished, slandered,  extorted,  harassed, contended,  argued, insisted, categorized, destroyed, agony, suffering, dismayed, neglected, commercialized, loathed, hated, silenced, suppressed, delayed, censored, denied, refused, segregated, hindered, impaired, handicapped, renounced, banished, abandoned, curbed, repressed. smeared, tarnished,
"Did you see that 'methamphetamine mouth' 60 years old and look happened to her teeth"
"Now we know Scar Faces true identity and origin of the 'Drug' that turns all users into automatic weapon wielding, police detesting, abolishers. People with rotted over hygiene treated  skin that was back to normal 2 weeks later. That guy actually decided not to pick his face next time." 

3.  To be regarded with disgust by fascist,infidels, inappropriately employed supported by a fictional, compiled order of operations,  that causes the true nature of the intended guide of conduct to be misconstrued in a manner that prevents itself from performing it's designated duties and forms another action that is still authorized yet is not in cooperation with any constructed and implemented intentions of the initial purpose.
""We got to show people cant use this 'Methamphetamine' they only care about  murder , robbery, lude acts , oh' yeah just as long as they rent pornography ,visit nudie bars, and smoke cigarettes "
"They were using this 'Methamphetamine' against their own will due to extreme addiction possibly in attempts to destroy their own bodies without the knowledge of what they are doing detrimental damage but forget that they are a scourge on society"
"Lets give the 'Methamphetamine to fat people and children not enough of a dose to ever achieve desired effect ,yes it would improve anyones grades that use it  if allot of the users had it as kids they would not be in the same pattern and productive now you get to use it against them because they had none through school"

4.A myth of a substance that was said to be easily created using throat lozenges , elmers glue, party poppers, hairspray, styrofoam,  tincture of peroxide, polyester, purified refined shards of stalactites , space where stalagmites had the exact place where formation was positively distinguished, a Molly Mc, Stuffin easy muffin machine, Magnetite from the North Pole, photon beam to abstract the glowing light of glisiners on lakes. but actually was one of thousands of scientifically created mind laxatives  the now added side effects insomnia and hypersexuality that were left their to distract from the distinct action of designing aeronautics with no previous degrees.
"Did you see that death proof car I designed on 'Methamphetamine' see they are using my idea now"
"So hold up,ok,I know what the Colonels secret recipe is"

5 .Slang used by elderly people in place of the  previous slandered  race, 'negroes' a socially acceptable alternative.
    "Did you see that Methamphetamine they are the reason Japan leaked from that nuke plant"
"They must be doing methamphetamine to be a  menace to pursue huliganism and build worthless crap out of what they have available and rape the white women. "

6. A slave traded substance that has the effectiveness of coffee due to cheapening of the materials used that is sold at 100.10 percent the cost it takes to produce it which is 0.10$ for every 110.00$ in revenue it creates.
"Those 'Methamphetamine' users must get  the urge to quit the prices will stop them. Then they can work and pay for it and have nothing to show for it"

7.  A substance that actually made illicit Cocaine use look like the  irrelevant social destitute  it ever was and still be acceptable toxicity and dramatic effect wise with the positive effects cocaine never had and still safe enough to use on a regular basis for no medical reason at all. Leaving the question why was cocaine made illegal.
"Crap we made cocaine illegal for no reason now look what this 'Methamphetamine'does and we still have no reason "

8.  Ist in a long list of drugs that would of benefited all users with no legitimate reason to prescribe , It was mas produced and used to pacify the demand for brain enhancing drugs that would of had to be otc . If they keep using the 'Methamphetamine they wont discover they can have the effects without the side effects that they suffer through and are made to look bad with.
"Only Heroin users need any alternative to combat the withdrawal  they have detrimental effects but we only help the Heroin users."

9 .A drug that has been around hundreds of years but given the reputation that Adolf Hitler invented it only cause he was a psychotic murderer and him losing the war makes it look bad also but this country was founded on it . Leonardo Da Vinci, Christopher Columbus, all of China,George Washington,Albert Einstein,Thomas Edison  Henry Ford , George Bush, Bill Gates all used it to get ahead and own us all with capitalism.
"Did you see Hitler tweaking out on that plane the other day?
"O'h your scientists use 'Methamphetamine' and you build weapons of war "

10.  A drug criticized to the point of illegitimate discredit  by a small percentage of discriminators in government who are uninformed but spread the lies of the information they smear users with to the point where it is a rumor . Leaving the already misdiagnosed 'Methamphetamine' user to be presented among thieves and murderers. Forcing all users to admit they have a addiction that they need help for or face the unfair sentence. This way you get re confirmed through the drug dependency agencies that these people have a problem and create a surplus of unneeded clinics and overpriced drug classes again placing the 'Methamphetamine' users in the category with Heroin users and drunk drivers. Where if they were not forced to take the blackmail these classes would not even exist nor would anyone attend. That saying these places already existed and none of these people used their services. Classifying drug users in a category again as people who need psychiatric help and addiction help when they don't. Classes based around helping people quit but nothing to help them with what they are interested in. So you use the user tho seek help they don't need and do nothing to give the people the help they do need. It is your failure not theirs If you have pharmacutical to justify your cause then why don't you justify it  Give people the drugs for a little as they cost to produce then you can legitimately distinguish the problems the poor have with what they have spent their money on and consider the true derogatory effects with the truth about any concerns and dangers that the users would warn others about.
  "Look at that bum damn what 'Methamphetamine" does to people trash digging derelicts" I
"If they get busted with 'Methamphetamine' we will not let them have a range of jobs and then we will say they don't work"



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