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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures

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OfflineAra16w
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Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC?
    #19092289 - 11/05/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Is there any reason why one couldn't add a lot of dry vermiculite to their spawn for the sole purpose of holding more liquid at a future point, in this case LC for more inoculation points?


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Offlinehgmstl
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19092294 - 11/05/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hmmmm...... just wouldnt work


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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: hgmstl]
    #19092304 - 11/05/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

vermiculite will clog your needle


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19092324 - 11/05/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why would I be putting the needle inside the spawn inside a grow bag? I prefer to inject above the spawn line or at least I always have in the past.

The point of this is to determine whether or not I can inject ridiculous amounts of LC (as much as two syringes) into a grow bag speeding up the process in a way similar to the slurry.


Edited by Ara16w (11/05/13 08:23 PM)


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19092380 - 11/05/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Go for it, report back later.

I see contams in your near future,


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19092410 - 11/05/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Gah, I just wanted an explanation for the criticisms.


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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19092424 - 11/05/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I thought you were trying to make an LC with vermiculite in it.

Vermiculite has no place in grain spawn

Adding dry vermiculite and trying to add a bunch of LC is going to make it difficult to get the moisture right.

You're playing with fire.

Your best bet is to be patient and follow proven teks.

Do it and report your findings.


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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19092432 - 11/05/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

one criticism I have is all that extra sugar is possibly going to make it contam more easily.

also moisture content.

and why are you using vermiculite with grains? seems messy and clumpy.


Edited by TrentBoyett (11/05/13 08:46 PM)


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19092450 - 11/05/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
I thought you were trying to make an LC with vermiculite in it.

Vermiculite has no place in grain spawn

Adding dry vermiculite and trying to add a bunch of LC is going to make it difficult to get the moisture right.

You're playing with fire.

Your best bet is to be patient and follow proven teks.

Do it and report your findings.




Are the BRF teks not spawn? I thought most of those recipes called for 2x the amount of dry vermiculite for every 1 part of brown rice flour.

In a well made LC, isn't the mycelium supposed to eat all the available nutrients and sugar?

The dry vermiculite should take care of any excess moisture.

If anything I figure it would help add more spacing between the grains for quicker colonization. Less clumping.


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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19092489 - 11/05/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:

Are the BRF teks not spawn? I thought most of those recipes called for 2x the amount of dry vermiculite for every 1 part of brown rice flour.

In a well made LC, isn't the mycelium supposed to eat all the available nutrients and sugar?

The dry vermiculite should take care of any excess moisture.

If anything I figure it would help add more spacing between the grains for quicker colonization. Less clumping.




BRF is spawn if you use it to spawn.  If you use it as a cake, it's a cake.

Yes, in a well made LC, most or all of the available nutrients and sugar will have been broken down.  But for it to get to that point you'll need to use up any of the time you'd be saving by using lots of LC.  LC in general is slower when you combine all steps, IMO.

Dry vermiculite might take care of excess moisture.  It'll be very tricky getting the moisture content even, though.  You don't want any excess moisture--the ideal is grain that's pretty dry on the surface so the mycelium really has to reach for more water.  The cooking process helps with evening it all out, but you obviously won't have that post-inoculation. 

Less grains means less nutrients, which could mean fewer flushes.


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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Psilicon]
    #19092538 - 11/05/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I put some vermiculite on the bottom of wbs half pints once just to try it. I injected about 5 cc's into each jar in a circular motion to make sure to get all of it. It worked fine and colonized in under a week if I remember correctly. Overall, it works, but it isn't really worth the hassle of having to wash the verm off of the good wbs. So if you're curious, try it. It works, but in the end it is not really necessary.


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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19092555 - 11/05/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Vermiculite in BRF cakes is a necessity. Otherwise you would have a wet dumpling after sterilizing. The vermiculite retains water and adds aeration that the BRF would not otherwise have. This is a necessity for your mycelium to colonize quickly.

Cakes can be fruited as cakes. They are only referred to as spawn when you break them up and SPAWN them to a bulk substrate.

When you fruit them as cakes, the vermiculite absorbs water for your fruits later.

Vermiculite in your GRAIN SPAWN is completely pointless at best. Grains do not need more aeration or moisture while colonizing. The grains alone do this well enough.

You are not likely going to be fruiting them as is. You are most likely going to SPAWN them to bulk. At this time, they will have the aeration and moisture they need for colonization and fruiting.

If anything, I think the vermiculite in your GRAIN SPAWN will make it hard to break up. If you want to make it easier to break up, add a little gypsum.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19095612 - 11/06/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sgt. Pepper said:
I put some vermiculite on the bottom of wbs half pints once just to try it. I injected about 5 cc's into each jar in a circular motion to make sure to get all of it. It worked fine and colonized in under a week if I remember correctly. Overall, it works, but it isn't really worth the hassle of having to wash the verm off of the good wbs. So if you're curious, try it. It works, but in the end it is not really necessary.




Thank you so much sir. Relevance :shocked:, I love that shit haha.

I thought about your method too as a liquid catch since plenty of people add a layer of dry verm on top of their spawn as a contam barrier. My reason for deciding against it was that it wasn't evenly mixed so it didn't have as much of an impact on speeding up the colonization time since the mycelium has to travel further. Sure, you could still use more LC and it'd be faster but not as fast.

If I were to go about this, I'd prepare the grains so that they were sufficiently hydrated on the inside and then towel dry the outside. It's simple enough to dose out a tablespoon of vermiculite and see how much moisture it holds without causing puddles which is what I'm trying to avoid here. For whatever amount was decided upon, I'd still add a little extra vermiculite just to account for the moisture that's already inside the grains. With the way I was intending to go about it, I didn't see any potential problems and wanted to make sure there wasn't anything that I was missing.

I'm well aware that vermiculite doesn't have much nutrition to offer the mycelium, but it doesn't seem to hurt either. The only other possible benefit I can think of is that one wouldn't need to spawn to bulk in order to get it to fruit. The vermiculite should hold enough water to solve that issue so that one merely needs to dunk. From what I recall, there was a lot of debate over whether or not adding substrate like cow manure would increase yields, and the consensus seemed to be not by much due to the lack of nutrients.

Getting this to work cuts out the risk of getting contam while spawning to bulk and the time it takes for the bulk to colonize as well.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Dry Vermiculite for Extra LC? [Re: Ara16w]
    #19096775 - 11/06/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:From what I recall, there was a lot of debate over whether or not adding substrate like cow manure would increase yields, and the consensus seemed to be not by much due to the lack of nutrients.

Getting this to work cuts out the risk of getting contam while spawning to bulk and the time it takes for the bulk to colonize as well.




If that was in debate, I'm not sure I agree.  Field-aged, leached manure is often used with great success in bulk grows.


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