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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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After Death/Before Birth
    #19084945 - 11/04/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't believe in life after death. This is merely philosophical pondering. But if we are to believe that we came from nothing, in the sense that we cannot say what came before the big bang or whatever, does it not seem to suggest that existence can occur after death?

I mean if before life(nothing), then life (something), then death (nothing)... Is it not possible something will follow?
If something originally came out of nothing, could something not also come out of nothing again?

I do not remember existing before i was alive, of course. Nor shall i remember when i am dead. But what difference is there between the state of being dead and the state of having not yet been created? Aren't both non-existence? If something came from the non existence before life, could it not come after the non existence of death?


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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OfflineXUL
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19085034 - 11/04/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting.

I am more interested in the fact that we don't know.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19085037 - 11/04/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I was perfectly happy before I was born. :hissyfit:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: Icelander]
    #19085052 - 11/04/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've always had this feeling that i can remember what it was like to be in the womb. It was warm, tremendously cosy and i felt content.  :dancer:


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: XUL]
    #19085056 - 11/04/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Isn't that basically what i'm saying?


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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OfflineXUL
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19085412 - 11/04/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimiandtheshroom27 said:
Isn't that basically what i'm saying?




How does that fact play into humanity? Do you think?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19085456 - 11/04/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

in the sense that we cannot say what came before the big bang




As time and space are interrelated or different aspects of the same reality; and time was created during The Big Bang, it makes no sense to speak of a 'before' The Big Bang.


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19085609 - 11/04/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I see. I'll admit i know little about it


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19085616 - 11/04/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It is hard for any of us to wrap our mind around such a concept.


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19085851 - 11/04/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimiandtheshroom27 said:
I don't believe in life after death. This is merely philosophical pondering. But if we are to believe that we came from nothing, in the sense that we cannot say what came before the big bang or whatever, does it not seem to suggest that existence can occur after death?

I mean if before life(nothing), then life (something), then death (nothing)... Is it not possible something will follow?
If something originally came out of nothing, could something not also come out of nothing again?

I do not remember existing before i was alive, of course. Nor shall i remember when i am dead. But what difference is there between the state of being dead and the state of having not yet been created? Aren't both non-existence? If something came from the non existence before life, could it not come after the non existence of death?




Many people have posed that. Nothing -> Something -> Nothing -> Something???

It could be, but I don't think we could say with more confidence that something would come after because of this pattern. It's a very limited POV to say that it's a pattern.

But I tend to agree with your ideas of before life and after death not being too different, but then again, I could be wrong.

The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness. - Vladimir Nabokov


--------------------
Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses


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Offlinejimiandtheshroom27
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: r72rock]
    #19085889 - 11/04/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness. - Vladimir Nabokov


I like that. :thumbup:

I don't see it as a pattern, i just expressed it like that because it helped get my point across. It's more that it just interest me whether death and pre death could be the same thing. I suppose they aren't things at all by definition, but in this way, conceptually at least maybe they are?


--------------------
Are you a lucky little lady in the City of Light
Or just another lost angel?
City of Night, City of Night,
City of Night, City of Night, woo, c'mon


Edited by jimiandtheshroom27 (11/04/13 03:24 PM)


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19086663 - 11/04/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This is the way I see it.

Existence cannot come from nothing, existence cannot disappear into nothing. It is logically impossible for something to come from nothing and it is therefore equally impossible for something to become nothing.

Hence if we are to believe that we do indeed exist now, we have in fact existed forever. We will exist forever.

Here is what is key to understand. We can exist without consciousness or self-consciousness. Hence you can exist and yet have no experience or knowledge of your very existence. The state of sleep is a case in pt. There is no consciousness and no experience and yet existence is there, that is the very reason it offers refreshment, because there is no consciousness.

This simple line of reasoning is IMO sound and logical and I therefore conclude that I am immortal and eternal.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: soldatheero]
    #19087136 - 11/04/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSpecimen
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: Icelander]
    #19087901 - 11/04/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Let me ask you something.
You cant remember before birth correct?
I would say that before birth you were dead; since well, ya cant really prove you had a consciousness before life, same goes for death after life.

so like..

Death->Life->Death

This could mean that life is merely a perception of death. Or perhaps is a logical way to interpret reincarnation

Open for debate, lets expand.


--------------------
I wrap words.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19088178 - 11/05/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

in the sense that we cannot say what came before the big bang




As time and space are interrelated or different aspects of the same reality; and time was created during The Big Bang, it makes no sense to speak of a 'before' The Big Bang.




That carry's with it the assumption that time and space were created in the big bang, and if that is the case then how would the big bang have occurred without time or space? If movement requires time and space, then there would not have been any movement (such as a bang) or place for the singularity to exist.

It seems like there could not have been a collision or expansion without time and space having existed previously.


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: soldatheero]
    #19088947 - 11/05/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
This is the way I see it.

Existence cannot come from nothing, existence cannot disappear into nothing. It is logically impossible for something to come from nothing and it is therefore equally impossible for something to become nothing.

Hence if we are to believe that we do indeed exist now, we have in fact existed forever. We will exist forever.

Here is what is key to understand. We can exist without consciousness or self-consciousness. Hence you can exist and yet have no experience or knowledge of your very existence. The state of sleep is a case in pt. There is no consciousness and no experience and yet existence is there, that is the very reason it offers refreshment, because there is no consciousness.

This simple line of reasoning is IMO sound and logical and I therefore conclude that I am immortal and eternal.




Your entire premise is based upon two faulty arguments, namely: existence cannot come from nothing and cannot disappear into nothing. While it is hard for us to comprehend especially the former, both are possible.


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19091208 - 11/05/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you really do believe that something can just "come from nothing" than really you believe one of the two options;

1) nothing can cause something. and/or
2) things, events or phenomenon do not require causes and can simply occur.

IMO neither or conceivable because they are logically impossible and believing otherwise is no different than believing in magic.

Things that begin to exist require a cause for that existence. Believing existence can come from nothing claims otherwise.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: After Death/Before Birth [Re: jimiandtheshroom27]
    #19091319 - 11/05/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimiandtheshroom27 said:
But what difference is there between the state of being dead and the state of having not yet been created?




If this question is rhetorical and the statement it provides is correct, then you must agree that there is no difference between these states and the state of being alive.

All that separates the nonexistent/the dead and the living is a rearrangement of atoms & molecules which have a chance of accumulating into what we define as a heart which pumps perceived blood to different "vital" organs.
The living have the above. The dead is a recent accumulation of flesh which is no longer functioning to support its being. The nonexistent is atoms and the space between which haven't yet reached a point a recognizable structured form, or no longer have structure as they did in the past.

That is what separates them, as seen from the perspective of a sentient being :grin:


--------------------
dead man walking


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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