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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Mush4Brains] * 3
    #19086900 - 11/04/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Zappa claims veterans are taken care of... :rolleyes:, obviously he hasn't been watching the news the past 5-6 years.  Even his favorite right-wing hate blogs and Fox News have had investigations on why veterans aren't getting the benefits they were promised (but of course, those ones blame it on OBAMA).



A large portion of veterans are fuckups because they were fuckups before they ever joined the military.  Most people who join only do so because they don't have a lot of options getting out of high school.  It's not like they're suddenly going to come out of the military  with their shit together.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Ellis Dee] * 3
    #19086948 - 11/04/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Can-i-bus said:
You have an unhealthy obsession with welfare/food stamps/liberal agenda





actually, I have a healthy obsession with some assholes in DC taking the money I work my ass off for and giving it to someone who doesn't have the motivation to dig themselves out of a hole.



Ever hear of working poor or people who are layed off from jobs that need temporary help for their families?





Yes I have.  I grew up dirt poor, and when I got out of the Navy I still was poor. 

I didn't cry about it.  I worked in a factory from 4PM until 1AM every night for $10 an hour, then I got up at 7am, went to school, and 4 years later graduated with a BSEE with honors.  Oh, I had to find the time to do the projects, the homework, and everything else. 

I paid for most of my school by scrimping and saving, but at the halfway mark we got a free apartment because we managed them. 

We managed 26 units, sometimes before I left for school at 7am, or after I got home at 2:45, I had to do maintenance on someones apartment. 

I had no life, it was hell but I finished.  Now I'm not working poor--I make a really good salary--the kind that Liberal Politicians make people envious abouts so they can win votes.

I paid my dues, I paid my own way, and I never took a fucking cent of government money.  Sometimes we ate peanut butter sandwiches and hot dogs for weeks on end.

So the next time some motherfucker says 'it isn't fair, income inequality,' so unmotivated people with crack babies from 6 different fathers can keep sucking the TEAT, well fuck them.  They can smooch my hairy white ass.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 1
    #19087105 - 11/04/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

Because this isn't some employer-employee situation. 


  Irrelevant to the question




No, that's the whole point.  You're imagining the food stamp program to be something it isn't.


No I'm not.  Why shouldn't you have to work for them.  You still haven't answered the question.
Quote:



Quote:

Quote:

Because the government's goals should be to alleviate poverty, to provide proper nutrition to children,


  I will set aside that I do not believe those should be government goals you are still a long way from answering my question.  If you want welfare you should work for it.




Great, why shouldn't they be the government's goals here?  Seems to be a far nobler goal than imparting some ineffectual plan to remedy your outrage that somewhere, someone is getting something they didn't earn.


Alleviating your poverty should be your goal, not mine.
Quote:



Quote:

Quote:

and to stimulate the economy,




Giving money to shitheads who don't produce is not stimulating the economy.  Maybe you think smashing windows is stimulative.




Food stamp dollars get spent almost immediately.  There is no better form of economic stimulus outside of infrastructure development, which our current congress has for whatever reason decided is not a national priority.




So lets smash some windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
Quote:



Quote:

Quote:

not to shoehorn moral lessons into questions of public policy.




Really?  Here's my lesson of morality in public policy.  Get your fucking paws out of my wallet and support yourself.  If you can't support yourself you are a useless piece of shit leech.  I do not care if you drill whores, gamble all your meager earnings away or smoke crack until you can't see any more as long as I don't get stuck with the bill for more than your grave site.  That, my friend, is freedom.




See, why you gotta be so mad about the whole thing?  Unfair economic redistribution is going to happen whether you want it to or not, whether through governmental, societal or familial means.  Your obsession with the unfairness of this doesn't help you in any way and has only the barest of relations with the consequences of policy decisions.




There is nothing unfair about the distribution of wealth.  There is a lot unfair about the distribution of the tax burden.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19087234 - 11/04/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Can-i-bus said:
You have an unhealthy obsession with welfare/food stamps/liberal agenda





actually, I have a healthy obsession with some assholes in DC taking the money I work my ass off for and giving it to someone who doesn't have the motivation to dig themselves out of a hole.



Ever hear of working poor or people who are layed off from jobs that need temporary help for their families?





Yes I have.  I grew up dirt poor, and when I got out of the Navy I still was poor. 

I didn't cry about it.  I worked in a factory from 4PM until 1AM every night for $10 an hour, then I got up at 7am, went to school, and 4 years later graduated with a BSEE with honors.  Oh, I had to find the time to do the projects, the homework, and everything else. 

I paid for most of my school by scrimping and saving, but at the halfway mark we got a free apartment because we managed them. 

We managed 26 units, sometimes before I left for school at 7am, or after I got home at 2:45, I had to do maintenance on someones apartment. 

I had no life, it was hell but I finished.  Now I'm not working poor--I make a really good salary--the kind that Liberal Politicians make people envious abouts so they can win votes.

I paid my dues, I paid my own way, and I never took a fucking cent of government money.  Sometimes we ate peanut butter sandwiches and hot dogs for weeks on end.

So the next time some motherfucker says 'it isn't fair, income inequality,' so unmotivated people with crack babies from 6 different fathers can keep sucking the TEAT, well fuck them.  They can smooch my hairy white ass.




IT all seems to boil down to what you think the stereotypical person on welfare is. You're just playing at racist stereotypes.

Sometimes people need a helping hand to get back on their feet, there is no shame in it.
There is shame in calling the poor leeches, and parasites.
There is stupidity in believing welfare affects your lively hood or freedom, pure stupidity.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Smokey420]
    #19087306 - 11/04/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:

There is shame in calling the poor leeches, and parasites.
There is stupidity in believing welfare affects your lively hood or freedom, pure stupidity.





there is stupidity in believing that 47 million people in the US need to be on Foodstamps.  Pure Stupidity.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19087322 - 11/04/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:

There is shame in calling the poor leeches, and parasites.
There is stupidity in believing welfare affects your lively hood or freedom, pure stupidity.





there is stupidity in believing that 47 million people in the US need to be on Foodstamps.  Pure Stupidity.




Yeah, I never once said everyone who is on goverment assistance needs it.


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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19087852 - 11/04/13 10:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Would the bum enablers please tell me why work requirements should not be applied to welfare recipients.




Im sort of against this food stamp cut back myself, but once again, every time there is an issue in Congress, the entire country blames The Republican party.

If liberals gave such a shit about food stamps, couldnt they have balanced a budget to not need to cut back on expenses at a critical moment e.g. if they gave a shit about food stamps liberals could have voted to cut back a billion a month on all the bonds they are buying on stock exchange securities. Since when did liberals give a shit?


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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19090252 - 11/05/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

Because this isn't some employer-employee situation. 


  Irrelevant to the question




No, that's the whole point.  You're imagining the food stamp program to be something it isn't.


No I'm not.  Why shouldn't you have to work for them.  You still haven't answered the question.




My answer to "Why shouldn't people on food stamps have to work for them?" is it's not a business transaction, where goods and services are exchanged.  It's a handout designed to deal with certain problems in society.  I'm obviously answering the question, you just don't like my answer, stop being obtuse.

Quote:

Alleviating your poverty should be your goal, not mine.




Everyone working together on goals that not everyone supports is how the government works.  For example, my taxes go towards supporting that ludicrous border fence that was the result of policies supported by people like you (I don't imagine you personally, since I can't imagine you being in favor of spending your taxes on pretty much anything) that I vehemently oppose.

You want to start an anarchist revolution and do away with government altogether, I'm all for that.  But if you want the thing around, then there are going to be programs with goals you dislike.


Quote:

Quote:


Food stamp dollars get spent almost immediately.  There is no better form of economic stimulus outside of infrastructure development, which our current congress has for whatever reason decided is not a national priority.




So lets smash some windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window




First off, feeding people has intrinsic utility; it's not the same situation at all.

Second off, economics is more complicated than your parable gets at.  Paying people to bury bottles and dig them up again can increase the velocity of money in an economy and get things going again.  Your argument fails even on that level.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

not to shoehorn moral lessons into questions of public policy.




Really?  Here's my lesson of morality in public policy.  Get your fucking paws out of my wallet and support yourself.  If you can't support yourself you are a useless piece of shit leech.  I do not care if you drill whores, gamble all your meager earnings away or smoke crack until you can't see any more as long as I don't get stuck with the bill for more than your grave site.  That, my friend, is freedom.




See, why you gotta be so mad about the whole thing?  Unfair economic redistribution is going to happen whether you want it to or not, whether through governmental, societal or familial means.  Your obsession with the unfairness of this doesn't help you in any way and has only the barest of relations with the consequences of policy decisions.




There is nothing unfair about the distribution of wealth.  There is a lot unfair about the distribution of the tax burden.




Given that one's tax burden affects one's wealth, how could it be that we have a unfair tax burden but a fair distribution of wealth?

There is nothing about the distribution of wealth that is causeless, but that doesn't mean it's fair.

It's true there's no fair way to distribute a tax burden.  Tough shit.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 2
    #19090286 - 11/05/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

My answer to "Why shouldn't people on food stamps have to work for them?" is it's not a business transaction, where goods and services are exchanged. 




You're missing the point, though.  He's not talking about a transaction.  He's talking about improving the system.  Handing out food stamps means people eat, sure.  Handing out food stamps and making those people work means they eat AND get some work experience...and perhaps a bit less self-loathing from taking a handout.  There is zero downside to keeping these people working on something and tons of upsides.  At the very least, it gets some unskilled labor for the same cost that we were getting nothing.  At best, it empowers people and gives them hope that they could get a job doing similar labor and making actual money.


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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Enlil]
    #19090320 - 11/05/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Then he needs to have some actual evidence showing that programs with such requirements actual improve employment outcomes.  My suspicion would be it would not in most circumstances.  "Work" experience for a governmental program is not going to impress many employers.  Meanwhile, the problem with being poor is that you're usually resource-poor in other ways as well (especially on time and energy), and requiring people to spend their scarce time and energy on make-work sharply curtails their ability to spend those resources actually improving their economic situation, whether by finding a better job, going back to school, etc.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 1
    #19090393 - 11/05/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's ridiculous.  A system that has as much free labor as we're talking about could easily accommodate people that have job interviews or need child care.  There would be thousands of people available to help out with that. 

As far as how it looks to potential employers, that's gonna depend from employer to employer...but we can be certain of one thing: long-term unemployment looks very bad to potential employers.  If the applicant could put down the work he's been doing on the program as his current employment, that will increase his odds of being hired over what they would be if he had nothing.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19091034 - 11/05/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

No, that's the whole point.  You're imagining the food stamp program to be something it isn't.


No I'm not.  Why shouldn't you have to work for them.  You still haven't answered the question.




My answer to "Why shouldn't people on food stamps have to work for them?" is it's not a business transaction, where goods and services are exchanged.  It's a handout designed to deal with certain problems in society.  I'm obviously answering the question, you just don't like my answer, stop being obtuse.




That is not an answer.  Saying it is a handout does not address the question of why it should be a handout. 
Quote:



Quote:

Alleviating your poverty should be your goal, not mine.




Everyone working together on goals that not everyone supports is how the government works.  For example, my taxes go towards supporting that ludicrous border fence that was the result of policies supported by people like you (I don't imagine you personally, since I can't imagine you being in favor of spending your taxes on pretty much anything) that I vehemently oppose.




I have no problem with federal taxes being spent on security.  I have a huge problem with them being spent on local things.
Quote:



You want to start an anarchist revolution and do away with government altogether, I'm all for that.  But if you want the thing around, then there are going to be programs with goals you dislike.




This endless idiocy that opposing the federal welfare state is somehow anarchistic is as played out as three day dead pipe
Quote:




Quote:

Quote:


Food stamp dollars get spent almost immediately.  There is no better form of economic stimulus outside of infrastructure development, which our current congress has for whatever reason decided is not a national priority.




So lets smash some windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window




First off, feeding people has intrinsic utility; it's not the same situation at all.




If you want to eat you have to work.  How is that a complex concept for you?
Quote:



Second off, economics is more complicated than your parable gets at.  Paying people to bury bottles and dig them up again can increase the velocity of money in an economy and get things going again.  Your argument fails even on that level.




:facepalm:
Quote:



Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Really?  Here's my lesson of morality in public policy.  Get your fucking paws out of my wallet and support yourself.  If you can't support yourself you are a useless piece of shit leech.  I do not care if you drill whores, gamble all your meager earnings away or smoke crack until you can't see any more as long as I don't get stuck with the bill for more than your grave site.  That, my friend, is freedom.




See, why you gotta be so mad about the whole thing?  Unfair economic redistribution is going to happen whether you want it to or not, whether through governmental, societal or familial means.  Your obsession with the unfairness of this doesn't help you in any way and has only the barest of relations with the consequences of policy decisions.




There is nothing unfair about the distribution of wealth.  There is a lot unfair about the distribution of the tax burden.




Given that one's tax burden affects one's wealth, how could it be that we have a unfair tax burden but a fair distribution of wealth?




A very few pay for the very many.  The vast majority of the populace are leeches sucking the tit of the few.
Quote:



There is nothing about the distribution of wealth that is causeless, but that doesn't mean it's fair.

It's true there's no fair way to distribute a tax burden.  Tough shit.




Of course there is a fair way to distribute the tax burden.  Everybody pays the same percent of their income.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19091043 - 11/05/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Then he needs to have some actual evidence showing that programs with such requirements actual improve employment outcomes.  My suspicion would be it would not in most circumstances.  "Work" experience for a governmental program is not going to impress many employers.  Meanwhile, the problem with being poor is that you're usually resource-poor in other ways as well (especially on time and energy), and requiring people to spend their scarce time and energy on make-work sharply curtails their ability to spend those resources actually improving their economic situation, whether by finding a better job, going back to school, etc.




I don't give a fuck about their gained work experience.  I give a fuck that no healthy person should get something for nothing.  Ever.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091055 - 11/05/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
no healthy person should get something for nothing.  Ever.



You must be a hoot at Christmas.  I'm sure your kids were told that they had to pay you back for every gift you ever gave them.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Enlil]
    #19091084 - 11/05/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
no healthy person should get something for nothing.  Ever.



You must be a hoot at Christmas.  I'm sure your kids were told that they had to pay you back for every gift you ever gave them.


I got plenty from them.  As a barren man you have no business opining about children.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091091 - 11/05/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Au Contraire.  I have two beautiful daughters:



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Enlil]
    #19091114 - 11/05/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Your daughters look suspiciously like dogs.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091120 - 11/05/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yours too, bro...yours too.

How dare you.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: Enlil]
    #19091140 - 11/05/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

emf is not my daughter.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why The Butthurt About The 'Food Stamp Cuts?' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091152 - 11/05/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know, dude...she does have an unhealthy obsession with you.  She might be your illegitimate daughter from some coked up hookup in the 70s


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